List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[Jon Douglas]

If we were just talking ruck positions - especially first ruck positions - then my guess is that if Clark could get fit and some touch he would be our best pick as first ruck. Has size, some decent bulk and strength and has shown earlier in his career he is a capable ruckman. And we need a first ruck who can at least negate the dominance of the opposition first ruckman - at centre bounces, clearances and around the ground marking. preferably win a few taps and some even to our advantage. ! If GFC can get more clearances then we are much more likely to beat better teams and win a final IMO.

That means a fairly mobile ruckman is preferred - and Clark seems the go. However GFC say he is earmarked for CHF duties. And that makes sense because our forward structure really was not right (well maybe until Walker played a decent final at CHF). We would kick more goals if we had a decent CHF who can take marks, draw defenders and kick a goal or two. Brown, nor Kersten and not Walker could fill that void. No Vardy, another unproven, no CHF.

As Vardy is yet to regain full fitness and has missed another year of footy you would expect Clark if fit to play CHF.

But if it is the best ruck combination we isolate and ask what combo would help us in the middle and around the ground the most - I think be season's end it could well be Clark as first ruck and Stanley as second ruck. I really do not like the look of Stanley as a first ruck. Gets pushed around a bit too much - but in a Blitz role he could be quite good.

He is taller than Blitz, as experienced and is faster. I like Blitz but right now I think Stanley maybe ahead of him (besides I see Blitz being trained up as a KPB).

So if they would continue with Walker at CHF, maybe try out Vardy if and when he is fit and playing decent VFL footy, we could leave Clark as first ruck.

Walker would have to improve by 25 % than last season if he could be considered a CHF for us that would allow probably our best ruck combo work.

If Clark has to play CHF then I would prefer Simpson and Stanley. Simpson is a bit slow and needs to take more marks around the ground - but Hmac for me is back up (and with Simpson's injury record may well be needed). But Simpson at least could be still a number one ruck in 2-3 years time when Hmac would have well and truly hung his boots up. Time into Simpson, if he can get over this back injury, is at least a better investment better than that of Hmac.

because we had so many stars a few years back that it is easy to forget we had a pretty decent ruckman - and a gun midfield. The midfield is hopefully growing right now (loss of Bundy hurts however) but a decent ruck combo could go a fair way in us getting some ascendancy back in the midfield.

 

[Vdubs]

Hale's been ripping us his entire career. Gotten us several times and not just recently. Didn't he get 8 at KP when he was with the Roos?

GFC making Hale look like a star for years.

Go Catters

Opponent: Scarlett

 

[Daniel McL]

Just finished my AFL Fantasy team for 2015...It's all Geelong players

Just messing around until the real stuff aka Supercoach begins on 30th of January

 

[Partridge]

Opponent: Scarlett

Only in the last quarter.

 

[SleazySimon]

Was just about to reply to Bobby_ with just this. He's been playing well against us long before Hmac has arrived.

West used to play well against him

 

[Vdubs]

Only in the last quarter.

Not my recollection of the game, but I will defer to your younger brain cells and memory.


Btw, how many last Q goals did Hale get, jfi? I don't know, just asking.

 

[Moggy]

If we were just talking ruck positions - especially first ruck positions - then my guess is that if Clark could get fit and some touch he would be our best pick as first ruck. Has size, some decent bulk and strength and has shown earlier in his career he is a capable ruckman. And we need a first ruck who can at least negate the dominance of the opposition first ruckman - at centre bounces, clearances and around the ground marking. preferably win a few taps and some even to our advantage. ! If GFC can get more clearances then we are much more likely to beat better teams and win a final IMO.

That means a fairly mobile ruckman is preferred - and Clark seems the go. However GFC say he is earmarked for CHF duties. And that makes sense because our forward structure really was not right (well maybe until Walker played a decent final at CHF). We would kick more goals if we had a decent CHF who can take marks, draw defenders and kick a goal or two. Brown, nor Kersten and not Walker could fill that void. No Vardy, another unproven, no CHF.

As Vardy is yet to regain full fitness and has missed another year of footy you would expect Clark if fit to play CHF.

But if it is the best ruck combination we isolate and ask what combo would help us in the middle and around the ground the most - I think be season's end it could well be Clark as first ruck and Stanley as second ruck. I really do not like the look of Stanley as a first ruck. Gets pushed around a bit too much - but in a Blitz role he could be quite good.

He is taller than Blitz, as experienced and is faster. I like Blitz but right now I think Stanley maybe ahead of him (besides I see Blitz being trained up as a KPB).

So if they would continue with Walker at CHF, maybe try out Vardy if and when he is fit and playing decent VFL footy, we could leave Clark as first ruck.

Walker would have to improve by 25 % than last season if he could be considered a CHF for us that would allow probably our best ruck combo work.

If Clark has to play CHF then I would prefer Simpson and Stanley. Simpson is a bit slow and needs to take more marks around the ground - but Hmac for me is back up (and with Simpson's injury record may well be needed). But Simpson at least could be still a number one ruck in 2-3 years time when Hmac would have well and truly hung his boots up. Time into Simpson, if he can get over this back injury, is at least a better investment better than that of Hmac.

because we had so many stars a few years back that it is easy to forget we had a pretty decent ruckman - and a gun midfield. The midfield is hopefully growing right now (loss of Bundy hurts however) but a decent ruck combo could go a fair way in us getting some ascendancy back in the midfield.

The most logical argument I can muster that fits the club's actions are that 2015 is last chance saloon for HMac and Simpson, due to age and fitness respectively, and that we will go after an established #1 ruck at the end of the year unless Simpson defies the odds and his history and becomes a reliable 1st ruck.

Like a lot of other posters on here, I cannot see any of Clark, Vardy, Stanley, Blicavs or Walker making it as a quality 1st ruck.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Not my recollection of the game, but I will defer to your younger brain cells and memory.


Btw, how many last Q goals did Hale get, jfi? I don't know, just asking.

Just had a quick look for you, Vdubs. Couldn't find exact goal stats for Hale per Q but he kicked 5 goals in the first half (3 from free kicks, 2 from pack marks):

"In the early running, the Kangaroos successfully plugged up the Cats forward half and found a winner in their own forward line in Hale who booted five goals for the opening half.
Hale got three free kicks close to goal as well as taking a couple of superb pack marks which resulted in goals.
His height was a definite worry for the Cats and he proved too much for rookie Harry Taylor and Andrew Mackie to handle with regular fullback Matthew Scarlett left to other match ups."

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2008/21/geel-v-nmfc

 

[Shai]

The most logical argument I can muster that fits the club's actions are that 2015 is last chance saloon for HMac and Simpson, due to age and fitness respectively, and that we will go after an established #1 ruck at the end of the year unless Simpson defies the odds and his history and becomes a reliable 1st ruck.

Like a lot of other posters on here, I cannot see any of Clark, Vardy, Stanley, Blicavs or Walker making it as a quality 1st ruck.

Sorta agree but Mitch C does not fit into the category of 'make it as a 1st ruck.' He's already proven that he can fill this role, just that hope we do not need him there because he is much more valuable up forward with Hawk.

 

[Boxhead_31]

I'm only assuming, but with another year of maturity and a full and extreme pre season, he's only going to be bigger and better than last years' model at the Saints.
Let's not forget this guy is fast, he was the fastest guy at the Saints and won a GF sprint, at 202cm they don't grow on trees.
Billie Smedts and Darcy Lang were P16's, spending a P21 in his case is a bargain, just a pity we didn't have another pick for Goddard imo.

So if he is this good, why then did a team needing all the young talent they can get off load him as quickly as they could?

 

[Bobby_]

So if he is this good, why then did a team needing all the young talent they can get off load him as quickly as they could?

They simply couldn't refuse pick 21?

Be rather interesting seeing how Hugh Goddard develops versus Rhys in the coming years.

 

[Shai]

So if he is this good, why then did a team needing all the young talent they can get off load him as quickly as they could?

Really interested to c how meto responds. Saints have so many probs, 1 season is just not 'nuff to cover all.

Their loss is our gain IMO.

 

[Shai]

They simply couldn't refuse pick 21?

Be rather interesting seeing how Hugh Goddard develops versus Rhys in the coming years.

Double like because HG was my #1 pick as a defender..

 

[Bobby_]

Double like because HG was my #1 pick as a defender..

yeh' I fancied himself. Then again, Stanley would make a decent defender too but he will probably end up playing in the ruck and forward. We sure could use a couple of solid young defender though as banking everything on Kolodjashnij and Delaney may back fire if they don't quite work out. Tom Gillies was highly rated to begin with, he soon struggled to stay afloat though.

 

[Shai]

yeh' I fancied himself. Then again, Stanley would make a decent defender too but he will probably end up playing in the ruck and forward. We sure could use a couple of solid young defender though as banking everything on Kolodjashnij and Delaney may back fire if they don't quite work out. Tom Gillies was highly rated to begin with, he soon struggled to stay afloat though.

Kolo! Delaney, hmm.. could b sensational, more as well I know.. Have stated b4 that Rhy's defensive skills r very good, would that not serve him as well in the forward line as the back.?

 

[Moggy]

Sorta agree but Mitch C does not fit into the category of 'make it as a 1st ruck.' He's already proven that he can fill this role, just that hope we do not need him there because he is much more valuable up forward with Hawk.

I don't think his body is up to it.
Would love to be proven wrong in a another KPF-becomes-Mr.September-ruckman scenario.

 

[Bobby_]

Kolo! Delaney, hmm.. could b sensational, more as well I know.. Have stated b4 that Rhy's defensive skills r very good, would that not serve him as well in the forward line as the back.?

no doubt at all but don't we have enough forward options? Kersten, Hawkins, Clark and Walker all look suited to the forward line. Walker could play in defence but from output thus far in the AFL, only Rhys has been played in that position and we kind of need another tall athletic spoiling defender like Lonergan to help combat today's modern day goliaths.

 

[Boxhead_31]

They simply couldn't refuse pick 21?

Be rather interesting seeing how Hugh Goddard develops versus Rhys in the coming years.

But as stated Stanley is a known quality but pick 21 is speculative.
Why were they so quick to say "Yep we will get rid of the only player on our list that can bridge the gap from Riewoldt to McCartin?"

 

[Shai]

no doubt at all but don't we have enough forward options? Kersten, Hawkins, Clark and Walker all look suited to the forward line. Walker could play in defence but from output thus far in the AFL, only Rhys has been played in that position and we kind of need another tall athletic spoiling defender like Lonergan to help combat today's modern day goliaths.

You r right, we hypothetically have a plethora of forwards @ the mo compared to previous seasons, our club staff, imo, filled the most outstanding needs of the Cats 4 the future in the draft.

SK looks to me to b a true forward option (with support), JW is a bit of an enigma. He can play a few possies ala Blitz and was impressive in his crash the pack, marking in the forward 50 late in the year.

I'm hoping we have back options in training and can look to more there (and mids) @ the end of this season.

 

[Topper Harley]

But as stated Stanley is a known quality but pick 21 is speculative.
Why were they so quick to say "Yep we will get rid of the only player on our list that can bridge the gap from Riewoldt to McCartin?"

If Stanley is a "known quantity" then we have badly mucked up this trade.

The only thing we know about Stanley is he's capable of being a barely adequate, inconsistent, no. 2 forward for the worst team in the comp. He'd need to develop much more on what he's shown.

 

[Bobby_]

But as stated Stanley is a known quality but pick 21 is speculative.
Why were they so quick to say "Yep we will get rid of the only player on our list that can bridge the gap from Riewoldt to McCartin?"

your guess is as good as mine.
No clue whatsoever. Only thing I can think of is he's soft and lacks that killer mentality that many successful athletes have inside of them. He may be an easy go lucky kind of bloke who is more than happy making 300k per year playing the one sport that came very naturally to him. His abilities alone got him to this level but when it's come time to taking the next step in which the coaching staff at St Kilda had called upon, he lacks in that area so they have decided to cut ties with him and take a gamble on another very highly rated individual with #21.

We have had quite a few of these types over the last 10 years so it will be interesting to see how he progresses in a new enviroment.

 

[Shai]

your guess is as good as mine.
No clue whatsoever. Only thing I can think of is he's soft and lacks that killer mentality that many successful athletes have inside of them. He may be an easy go lucky kind of bloke who is more than happy making 300k per year playing the one sport that came very naturally to him. His abilities alone got him to this level but when it's come time to taking the next step in which the coaching staff at St Kilda had called upon, he lacks in that area so they have decided to cut ties with him and take a gamble on another very highly rated individual with #21.

We have had quite a few of these types over the last 10 years so it will be interesting to see how he progresses in a new enviroment.

I say that I'm not ambitious, which is the truth; I do however, have a very competitive nature.

 

[David the Cat]

If Stanley is a "known quantity" then we have badly mucked up this trade.

The only thing we know about Stanley is he's capable of being a barely adequate, inconsistent, no. 2 forward for the worst team in the comp. He'd need to develop much more on what he's shown.

I think thats a very harsh assessment. We have also seen he can perform at a very high level indeed…albeit not with any consistency.

The St Kilda board had a much higher opinion of him, and many questioned the decision to trade him at all given his recent progress. I think we should see how he develops under our system …. his performances were on an upward curve…..he's a big man with real pace…..and he should reach his peak in the next couple of seasons given his age and profile…

Lets see how he goes in the hoops before writing him off..

 

[Topper Harley]

I think thats a very harsh assessment. We have also seen he can perform at a very high level indeed…albeit not with any consistency.

The St Kilda board had a much higher opinion of him, and many questioned the decision to trade him at all given his recent progress. I think we should see how he develops under our system …. his performances were on an upward curve…..he's a big man with real pace…..and he should reach his peak in the next couple of seasons given his age and profile…

Lets see how he goes in the hoops before writing him off..

It is harsh, but I'm prepared to stand by it unless he proves me wrong.

Also, I'm not writing off Stanley before he's played a game, I just think we grossly overpaid for him, and I don't see how he fits into our side.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

So if he is this good, why then did a team needing all the young talent they can get off load him as quickly as they could?

Mate they finished on the bottom of the ladder last year. They're hardly a club that is well known for making great decisions.