Academy 2020 Father/Son, NGA and Academy Prospects - The Compromised Draft

[GapInIkonPark]

Is the solution to ‘dummy bids’ already there for the 2021 ND? No matched bids for NGA players picked in Top 20. Extends to Top 40 in 2022.

Not sure what Beatson’s whinge is about. If another club bids on your academy player and you rate other players higher when your pick comes around, then you forego your academy player.

Carlton would have loved either of the 2 NGA players they bid on last year, Henry and Green.

 

[AuTo00Z]

Beatson is just entitled. Sure, his solution could stop dummy bids, but that would be completely against the whole point of having the northern academies in the first place. The northern academies were set-up to increase the talent pool, but the reason clubs run the academy is so they can have first-rights to the players to fight the go-home factor (since there are less quality players from the northern states).

I don't think there's be a single player that has been bidded on earlier than expected anyway. If anything, most of these players are bid on later than expected cause clubs know the bid will be matched.

The simple solution is just to simply not match, and the club who placed the dummy bid pays the price.

 

[Thetrader15]

Beatson is just entitled. Sure, his solution could stop dummy bids, but that would be completely against the whole point of having the northern academies in the first place. The northern academies were set-up to increase the talent pool, but the reason clubs run the academy is so they can have first-rights to the players to fight the go-home factor (since there are less quality players from the northern states).

I don't think there's be a single player that has been bidded on earlier than expected anyway. If anything, most of these players are bid on later than expected cause clubs know the bid will be matched.

The simple solution is just to simply not match, and the club who placed the dummy bid pays the price.

If Beatson is really worried about the Swans not getting their academy players they should be forced to take ALL their academy players each year because you know, they have invested in them.

No Beatson, you don't get an extended list either.

 

[theyellowsash]

Beatson is just entitled. Sure, his solution could stop dummy bids, but that would be completely against the whole point of having the northern academies in the first place. The northern academies were set-up to increase the talent pool, but the reason clubs run the academy is so they can have first-rights to the players to fight the go-home factor (since there are less quality players from the northern states).

I don't think there's be a single player that has been bidded on earlier than expected anyway. If anything, most of these players are bid on later than expected cause clubs know the bid will be matched.

The simple solution is just to simply not match, and the club who placed the dummy bid pays the price.

If the swans get their way and this comes in, they will just scam the system again and their academy will be used as a way to rise up the draft order for free instead. I guarantee you wouldn't see them ever match a top 5 bid again because what they really wanted was that top 5 pick.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

If Beatson is really worried about the Swans not getting their academy players they should be forced to take ALL their academy players each year because you know, they have invested in them.

No Beatson, you don't get an extended list either.

If the swans get their way and this comes in, they will just scam the system again and their academy will be used as a way to rise up the draft order for free instead. I guarantee you wouldn't see them ever match a top 5 bid again because what they really wanted was that top 5 pick.

Its funny you should say this, from memory when academies were first given over to the clubs to manage (after the AFL did a halfhearted job at doing some
northern state development) the Swans offered to opt out of the draft all together and only take academy kids.

 

[Kwality]

Yeah, weird suggestion from Kinnear. If market puts a certain value on the kid and you don't agree, then pass on the kid is the right result. You can't ask for compensation for something you never had in the first place. The comp is the 20% discount if you choose to match.

Brisbane list now has a good proportion of QLD players thanks to academy - Andrews, Hipwood, Ballenden, Coleman, Payne, Fullarton, McFadyen, Archie Smith

44

Archie Smith

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.1

4star

HO

14.4

5star

D

4.7

1star

K

1.7

1star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

2.0

4star

HO

11.3

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

3.4

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

17.8

5star

etc. We had our set of misses too like Dawson, Hammelmann, Rueben Williams and few others.

But the academy structure has achieved the important outcome of creating oversupply and a bigger pool in my view. The list below is what we didn't match and this is what academy is all about. I'm sure there'll be more this year.

2015	Wylie Buzza (Geelong), Corey Wagner 34 Corey Wagner Age 27 Ht 181cm Wt 77kg Pos. Def Career Season Last 5 D 9.5 2star K 5.5 2star HB 4.1 3star M 2.1 2star T 3.5 5star MG 118.1 2star No current season stats available D 6.0 2star K 3.2 2star HB 2.8 3star M 1.4 2star T 3.4 5star MG 46.0 1star (North Melbourne)
2016	Elliot Himmelberg (Adelaide), Declan Watson (North Melbourne), Mabior Chol 18 Mabior Chol Age 27 Ht 200cm Wt 98kg Pos. Fwd Career Season Last 5 D 7.5 2star K 5.3 2star HB 2.2 2star M 2.3 2star T 2.7 4star G 0.8 4star D 8.0 2star K 6.0 2star HB 2.0 1star M 2.3 2star T 2.3 3star G 0.7 4star D 9.2 3star K 6.8 3star HB 2.4 3star M 3.2 4star T 1.8 4star G 1.2 4star (Richmond)
2019	Will Martyn (Richmond), Noah Cumberland (Richmond),

A great post with enough detail to make your point about the player pool & your academy.

 

[Thetrader15]

Its funny you should say this, from memory when academies were first given over to the clubs to manage (after the AFL did a halfhearted job at doing some
northern state development) the Swans offered to opt out of the draft all together and only take academy kids.

Really? When was that?

I've had a look back to 2010 and can't find a draft when they didn't pick multiple players from outside of NSW.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Really? When was that?

I've had a look back to 2010 and can't find a draft when they didn't pick multiple players from outside of NSW.

Pretty sure it was 2008, back when they were first setting it up, they offered to no longer take part in the draft for exclusive access to kids from the Academy.

The AFL turned down that suggestion, so it never went ahead.

Edit: it was actually as far back as 2005 as per article

Swans had plan to pull out of draft

Sydney would have completely withdrawn from the national draft and started recruiting exclusively from New South Wales under a radical proposal put to the AFL.

www.theage.com.au

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Its funny you should say this, from memory when academies were first given over to the clubs to manage (after the AFL did a halfhearted job at doing some
northern state development) the Swans offered to opt out of the draft all together and only take academy kids.

I'm sure they'd do it now too if they got the entirety of NSW/ACT.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

I'm sure they'd do it now too if they got the entirety of NSW/ACT.

Oh I'm sure they'd do it now with their academy as it currently stands.
Once you are guaranteed exclusive access the line of how much you spend on development becomes shifted to spend as much as possible.

Am not surprised that the AFL didn't agree to it, and even if they did agreed to it, it would undoubtedly get canned in the long term if we were successful at nurturing lots of elite talent by throwing vast sums of money into development pathways.

 

[theyellowsash]

Its funny you should say this, from memory when academies were first given over to the clubs to manage (after the AFL did a halfhearted job at doing some
northern state development) the Swans offered to opt out of the draft all together and only take academy kids.

thats not a horrible idea, but its also a completely separate issue.

 

[Tedeski]

I was at that game and my recollection is that the Hawks tore the Swans a newie in the 2014 GF, it was a complete mental and physical domination.

You are right about the Buddy thing though, the whole FA compo thing is a joke.

I was at the 2012 Gf where Buddy tore the Hawks a newie. Same, a complete mental & physical domination on your home ground.

But yeah, I am happy to just get a couple stars every year from our academy & to see other AFL standard footballers from our academies get picked up by other clubs & infiltrate the competition so that after a few years at a Vic club, they can pull the homesickness card & come home to the Swans when at peak if we want them.

 

[briztoon]

If Beatson is really worried about the Swans not getting their academy players they should be forced to take ALL their academy players each year because you know, they have invested in them.

No Beatson, you don't get an extended list either.

Except that’s got nothing to do with what Beatson said, and what this thread is about.

 

[GWS Goose]

The idea is clearly self serving.

However, what problem is he solving, typically academy players slide a little lower than expected.

 

[Pykie]

surprised a NM supporter is talking about coddled organisations

Lol yeah, you are right. Almost white anted by the AFL into oblivion.

Your idea of coddled must be flat out child abuse.

 

[FreeAgent1]

Not a well thought out position and way too “old school”. Will get replaced by dalrymple in next few years.

I think if he really thought this he should put his money where his mouth is and trade up to near where these players are valued and then pass on them and get the kids he wants.

win for the afl as we developed extra talent (his apparent point) and due to that we get to select the open player we want....

Talk about having your cake and eating it too....

 

[Stratton24]

I think he got it wrong, clubs don't do dummy bids, they don't bid when they should

 

[Deccas]

The mechanism for doing this would be quite hard though. It would mean finding and developing players good enough to be top 5 picks and then not picking them.

If the swans get their way and this comes in, they will just scam the system again and their academy will be used as a way to rise up the draft order for free instead. I guarantee you wouldn't see them ever match a top 5 bid again because what they really wanted was that top 5 pick.

On Nokia 7.1 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kwality]

I was at the 2012 Gf where Buddy tore the Hawks a newie. Same, a complete mental & physical domination on your home ground.

But yeah, I am happy to just get a couple stars every year from our academy & to see other AFL standard footballers from our academies get picked up by other clubs & infiltrate the competition so that after a few years at a Vic club, they can pull the homesickness card & come home to the Swans when at peak if we want them.

Growing the game in NSW /the player pool are the WINNERS of the Swans sponsor QBE working with the club - the AFL came along later looking for credit followed by other clubs looking a for a free ride.

 

[Kwality]

I think he got it wrong, clubs don't do dummy bids, they don't bid when they should

Those designing the system were as likely to foresee the consequences as the clowns changing the rules - typical AFL lack of responsibility, NIL.

 

[Tedeski]

Growing the game in NSW /the player pool are the WINNERS of the Swans sponsor QBE working with the club - the AFL came along later looking for credit followed by other clubs looking a for a free ride.

Yeah. I think that a player or two from our academy will start filtering through to the rest of the competition, with perhaps even one player being taken this year from the discussion on our board. At the end of the day, when our academy starts producing 10 AFL standard footballers, those 'real' AFL supporters who had the vision of what the academy was about some 15 years ago, can feel vindicated that finally the game is getting a stronger foundation in a non traditional AFL state.
I remember Mike Thatfatprick telling us "you can't have them all" when we recruited Buddy the year after Tippett. When it comes to the academy he was right because we will have prepared quality footballers to play across the whole of the competition, with the knowledge that we would only be able to take a few at most.

 

[Ads734]

This was such a bad take from Kinear. The issue I have with the acadamies both state and next gen is that it should be for the bennift of the player and competition. The issue is that is that if the aim is to gain traction in non traditional states/multi cultural backrounds then the AFL should be flipping the bill and the AFL clubs should be made to invest a simmilar amount. Essentially the way I look at it the bennifit should not be made to the club but the league as a whole. The idea from Kinear essentially gives ownership to the club over the player. If they choose not to match then too bad.

 

[Kwality]

it should be for the bennift of the player and competition

Pardon my use of a very narrow quote but I say its for the benefit of the game nationally & I'd offer the increasing numbers of NT, Q & NSW players in the player pool.

I'll add my strong view that the heartland States (WA , SA, Vic ) should have no priority to these players in the national draft. Yes, it benefits NSW & Q and builds the game.

 

[Ads734]

Pardon my use of a very narrow quote but I say its for the benefit of the game nationally & I'd offer the increasing numbers of NT, Q & NSW players in the player pool.

I'll add my strong view that the heartland States (WA , SA, Vic ) should have no priority to these players in the national draft. Yes, it benefits NSW & Q and builds the game.

That’s fair. Even so I still think that the AFL should be governing the development of the players by using club resources. The afl draft is already compromised enough.

 

[Kwality]

That’s fair. Even so I still think that the AFL should be governing the development of the players by using club resources. The afl draft is already compromised enough.

What does governing mean in this context? Vic has the elite NAB comp & WA has the WAFL Colts sides - sure SA has a version too.
Its the 12/14/16s that develop these guys & NT, Q & NSW doesnt have the junior infrastucture that say WA has & has had for more than 50 years through to the WAFL colts.

Leave the developing States to grow the game & strip the BS academy stuff from the heartland clubs, the draft is significantly less compromised