Autopsy 2023 Rd 12 No end to misery in sight

[The Bighouse]

Can they give Mirkov a run next week? Think he has been with us for 3 years, and is 210cm, we get little around the ground from our rucks, at least be should win most of the hit outs. We should be trialling everything for the next 3 months. Big cleanout needs to happen, so giving some of the kids a go is worth it in my opinion. Think Ty should get a game in the backline too, takes some great intercept marks in the VFL. Many games he has looked better than Kemp, some players play better given a chance at the higher level

Mirkov was drafted MSD ‘21 & was injured in his 1st or 2nd game as a CFC player in the VFL.

So 2yrs almost to the day, and missed 1/2 a season of that time as a development player (more like a Cat B project).

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Are we really defending player abuse now? Leaving early is not something I do but if you must, is it too much to ask that you don’t abuse players on your way out?

Of course people have their own reasons for when they arrive and depart games, and of course they don’t have to justify those reasons to anyone. By the same token, others are allowed to poke fun at them. Are we honestly taking ourselves so seriously that this is even an issue? Has there ever been a time in footy, or indeed any sport in the world, when this wasn’t a subject of banter? Does this not happen at every single game of live sport ever?

It’s your choice to leave whenever you like, just don’t abuse players while you’re doing it.

Player abuse? You've lost the plot. Leaving early is not player abuse.


Those who liked this post too. What the * is wrong with you, supporting such a ridiculous leap. The way you present that wasn't banter you were and still are having a full blown emotional go.

What a joke of an attitude. To then try to tie in player abuse, when I didn't abuse a single person, to justify your continued abusive tirade. Far out man. Chill out....

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Pretty sure he means that having a go at people leaving early is light hearted banter, and he's right, it always has been. But those people at the ground leaving early and abusing the players on the way out, that's really out of line. He's not saying leaving in itself is abuse.

Yes he was. He had a disgusted attitude towards people leaving early and has now contorted his emotion into implying I was abusing players to help maintain the judgement.

It was not light hearted banter lol. He was raging.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

Agree. What should we do over the next 10 rounds, need to get something out of this season.

Keep playing Kemp, Cincotta, get Cowan and Binns time in seniors. Also, play an attacking brand of football - we need to train and play more that way.

Yes
Thats what the team will be all about,working hard
We do have a sloooow midfield.....clearance yes......effective spread no- quote(need new mid speed)
Forwards setup at times turning over plus inefficient......honey,durdin,owies....too many c grades
Need Martin fit......

 

[Blueballs38]

I tipped this 5 weeks ago and no one gave me so much as a chuckle … we have been deplorable this season (Geelong game the anomaly) since the first bounce in round one …

Completely agree, Geelong game was the anomaly. Rest of our play has been nothing but beating bad teams, getting lucky umpiring decision wins and being destroyed by good teams. We are literally playing dog s**t football.

Even when we were 4 wins 1 draw I was telling my mates but we are playing like crap, we don’t start pulling it together we are screwed.….. guess what?

 

[TheRedPill]

Yes he was. He had a disgusted attitude towards people leaving early and has now contorted his emotion into implying I was abusing players to help maintain the judgement.

It was not light hearted banter lol. He was raging.

Go back to my original post. These are the exact words I used: “supporters shirking it - leaving early and abusing players - is the absolute worst”. If you’re not abusing players, you’re not in the group of supporters I was referring to. Was that not clear?

It seems there was enough room for interpretation that it has enraged the early leavers so just to clarify - if you want an argument defending your right to quietly leave early, please find someone who is actually arguing the opposite and not twist a tiny fraction of what I said into a straw man.

 

[goreds]

Toby Greene had a long w/end in MEL just gone.

Correct, he had club duties and media commitments and he took his team out for beers to celebrate after the game. If you’re not aware he also said in in address to the team at halftime, if we win this we’re all going out for beers after the game.

There’s an old saying, ‘read the tea leaves’…

 

[myblueroan]

It was not light hearted banter lol. He was raging.

I read it that way. I think Gab gave a very kind helping hand there, and they(he/her) took it.
R.P's posts, both of them I reckon, take an each way bet at the very least. Stand by the coach/I don't think the coach is good...stand by the players/the players suck because SOS chose them.
Somehow these same players will come good if we only stay at the games and support?
Anyway,
I can get behind not abusing players. Ours or otherwise. For sure!
I feel uncomfortable with some levels of it on here too.
R.P. ...benefit of the doubt, perhaps you'd had a few glasses of wine when you were writing?
Anyway, you are passionate as I guess we all are.

 

[smit_is]

Good post but again the calling out of fans for leaving early is dogwater. You don't know them or what's going on in their lives.

R.P. your post is all over the place!
Leaving isn't player abuse, it's a seperate argument.
No one has condoned player abuse. I agree with you it's revolting when you hear it at a game.
You go from a serious swipe to then saying it's light hearted banter?
Which is it?
One could get sea-sick traversing your sentences, neverlone an entire post!

I could be wrong here gents, but I think TheRedPill was referring to people leaving early and abusing players as being part of the same action as such.

I read it as supporters leaving early whilst abusing players as being the worst.

Not that these individually or as standalone actions made the worst supporters.


EDIT: Apologies, I had started writing this earlier this morning but had to attend to the little rugrats, and consequently, failed to see the newer posts addressing this.

Play on and GO BLUES!

 

[Red Bull]

I am not sure if this is a coaching or player issue but one thing that I noticed yesterday (and in the last few games) is how slow Carlton players are to get back off their mark. We take a mark, stand planted to the spot for 3-4 seconds waiting for someone to come past for a handball. If someone does we are so close to the man on the mark that the player is under pressure, and if no one does we then have to take a further 3-4 seconds to get back off our mark before disposing of the ball. This slow decision-making results in slow ball movement as the defence has time to get back. We should be looking for those handballs as we are moving back off the mark which means if there is none we can still dispose of the ball quickly.

Might just be me overanalysing something insignificant but it drove me nuts yesterday

And you’ve got Marchbank to look forward too.
You could eat a 3 course meal in the time he takes to move the ball on.
Vossy will love it …

 

[TENACIOUS]

LOB imo shouldn’t be in the team…

But the abuse he gets from the stands, from our own supporters is sickening…

Happy for supporters to leave whenever they wish… Haven’t noticed player abuse when fans are leaving…

More so by the ones that stay and congregate around the race, that’s where players are likely to hear it…

 

[TheRedPill]

Yes he was. He had a disgusted attitude towards people leaving early and has now contorted his emotion into implying I was abusing players to help maintain the judgement.

I read it that way. I think Gab gave a very kind helping hand there, and they(he/her) took it.
R.P's posts, both of them I reckon, take an each way bet at the very least. Stand by the coach/I don't think the coach is good...stand by the players/the players suck because SOS chose them.
Somehow these same players will come good if we only stay at the games and support?
Anyway,
I can get behind not abusing players. Ours or otherwise. For sure!
I feel uncomfortable with some levels of it on here too.
R.P. ...benefit of the doubt, perhaps you'd had a few glasses of wine when you were writing?
Anyway, you are passionate as I guess we all are.

What you’re describing is the point I was making - there are numerous issues and it’s not possible to target one culprit with a silver bullet eg “sack Voss to fix everything”. That’s the nuance I was talking about.

For example, I am allowed to have my doubts about Voss and his game plan while believing he deserves more time and can evolve. I am also allowed to believe that we are suffering from past list management mistakes but could be playing better footy with the cattle we have. People obviously prefer things to be black-and-white - either totally bad or good with no in-between and no ability to change - because it’s simpler, but it’s not how it works.

As such, I am not sure that this is the hedging you accuse me of - it’s the inherent acknowledgment that our predicament is the culmination of a range of delicately balanced factors.

 

[The Bighouse]

Correct, he had club duties and media commitments and he took his team out for beers to celebrate after the game. If you’re not aware he also said in in address to the team at halftime, if we win this we’re all going out for beers after the game.

There’s an old saying, ‘read the tea leaves’…

There’s chalk & cheese between TG & PC as leaders but I’m not going to hang players out to dry over staying on interstate for whatever reason there may be, or even to unwind.

An interstate win with Toby’s 200th celebrations (thanks to a great win & lead by 4 goals from the skipper plus they couldn’t get of G-town that night anyway) would have been great for team morale & bonding.

Aware of the speech but that game could have gone either way & we never hear of it. The deeds that TG shows on-field however are more desperate & inspiring, a quality footballer.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

All were okay, I think Martin could come in this week.

Frankly, Martin in short spurts would offer way more than Motlop and Fisher presently.

Those two should be in the ressies for some weeks.

Though Martin appeared to tire badly in the 2s game - didn't see him much in the last quarter and a half?

 

[myblueroan]

What you’re describing is the point I was making - there are numerous issues and it’s not possible to target one culprit with a silver bullet eg “sack Voss to fix everything”. That’s the nuance I was talking about.

For example, I am allowed to have my doubts about Voss and his game plan while believing he deserves more time and can evolve. I am also allowed to believe that we are suffering from past list management mistakes but could be playing better footy with the cattle we have. People obviously prefer things to be black-and-white - either totally bad or good with no in-between and no ability to change - because it’s simpler, but it’s not how it works.

As such, I am not sure that this is the hedging you accuse me of - it’s the inherent acknowledgment that our predicament is the culmination of a range of delicately balanced factors.

Your quote makes it look I've said words that actually are a quote from Sky horse tamer. Can you edit that out?
Thanks.
I think you are saying we need nuanced understanding and not black and white absolutism. Of course we do.
I think the general consensus is to build quality around Voss to help him. To get rid of some players who aren't cutting it and continue building.
The main area of angst as I see it is over the game plan. I find your posts around this confusing and I feel you shift the ground on your points too much. That doesn't make me a black and whiter does it? I had a list of multi quotes from your o.p to illustrate what I'm getting at, but I don't know how to insert them!

---

 

[windows1]

Noticed this year when we win a centre clearance, we create pressure ourselves and handball it 4-5 times before rushing it anywhere forward … or even lose it in the middle from the over use…quite frustrating !

We handball backwards. Insanity that it’s the norm.

 

[windows1]

Very noticeable last night, it’s an overuse problem but also because we don’t have anyone with breakaway speed & skill to get themselves in the clear so revert to flicking it around to release someone into clear air.

What exactly do the coaches and players think is going on behind the ball while we do that? Answer? Double teams. So what do we do after flicking it around for 10 seconds? Bomb it to double teams.

 

[windows1]

Seriously does anyone have any idea how the hell we get out of this hot mess we are in again?

Get a psychologist who actually has impact on this group.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

What exactly do the coaches and players think is going on behind the ball while we do that? Answer? Double teams. So what do we do after flicking it around for 10 seconds? Bomb it to double teams.

Understand that but we are also a victim of not having enough talent in both the middle & Forward parts of the ground to play the way the rest of the competition is or maximise our few top end talents.

 

[Bluebager]

Yes. He needs time to make things betterer. What is the point in sacking another coach, it makes no sense whatsoever!!

Yes it does!!

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Understand that but we are also a victim of not having enough talent in both the middle & Forward parts of the ground to play the way the rest of the competition is or maximise our few top end talents.

We have the talent. it's all between the ears now....

 

[Bluebager]

I know we had all hoped to be better but if you look at our 5 losses in a row.
Melbourne - Top 4 certainty
Sydney interstate - Last years gf
Collingwood - Premiership favourite
Dogs - gf in 21, had won 5 in a row and will push for top 4 this year
Lions- Prelim last year, will push for top 4

Most supporters want to blow up the joint, but did we really expect to win any of these games? If we are a 6-10 side we were no chance, the Saints loss is probably the one that hurt us most, and Crows have shown they are a force at home.. the hysteria most are showing atm is toxic, need to win the next couple and hit the bye with a bit of momentum.

Can I have what its all about me..smoking?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

We have the talent. it's all between the ears now....

Nah we don’t, we don’t have any silky skilled quick midfielders at all, we don’t have any decent small or mid sized forwards either.

These areas are killing our F50 connection, opposition defenders zone off players like Durdin, Fisher, Silvagni, Motlop, Owies etc knowing our mids can’t lower their eyes to hit a target because they lack the polish.

These defenders have time to crowd & impact Harry & Charlie’s contests and still get back to their direct opponents when required, even if their direct opponents win or receive the ball they don’t have the skill set to hit the scoreboard often enough... they are ineffectual!!

Harry & Charlie will dominate once we find 3-4 extra legitimate options up forward and our midfield ball use, decision making & speed of ball movement improves..... these areas won’t be improved enough with the players we have, the list needs to be turned over and a new strategy implemented for drafting/recruiting.

 

[Triniboy]

We have the talent. it's all between the ears now.

So LOB (there are others) consistency in turning the ball over is bte’s…not a skill deficiency?

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Nah we don’t, we don’t have any silky skilled quick midfielders at all, we don’t have any decent small or mid sized forwards either.

These areas are killing our F50 connection, opposition defenders zone off players like Durdin, Fisher, Silvagni, Motlop, Owies etc knowing our mids can’t lower their eyes to hit a target because they lack the polish.

These defenders have time to crowd & impact Harry & Charlie’s contests and still get back to their direct opponents when required, even if their direct opponents win or receive the ball they don’t have the skill set to hit the scoreboard often enough... they are ineffectual!!

Harry & Charlie will dominate once we find 3-4 extra legitimate options up forward and our midfield ball use, decision making & speed of ball movement improves..... these areas won’t be improved enough with the players we have, the list needs to be turned over and a new strategy implemented for drafting/recruiting.

Our ball movement into the F50 is the worst in the league.

That's not a function of leg speed or lack of talent.

That's game plan. Or lack thereof.

And execution, of course.