4th Ashes Test England v Australia July 19-23 1930hrs @ Old Trafford

[Groucho]

Mystery Spinner is my favourite of his, 81allout Publishing has recently republished The Summer Game with a new foreword by Ian Chappell too.

I liked Mystery Spinner too. I’d always had a fascination with Jack Iverson so eagerly got this book and it was quite an achievement fleshing out a life that was unremarkable apart from the fact he went from Brighton fourths to Test cricket within two years. Sad ending too.

 

[Gough]

I liked Mystery Spinner too. I’d always had a fascination with Jack Iverson so eagerly got this book and it was quite an achievement fleshing out a life that was unremarkable apart from the fact he went from Brighton fourths to Test cricket within two years. Sad ending too.

I loved the way he wrote about the process of researching Iveson's life as well, as much as it told his story it was also a book about writing a book.

 

[kickazz]

I may not know as much about the game as stokes but I do know that they only way for England to win the ashes was to take 20 wickets. That should have been the priority not putting on runs that may or may not have mattered.

The amount of delusion in the English camp is slightly concerning. Has Macullum created a cult?View attachment 1756063

Totally agree.

They were too scared of trying and failing so they batted big and used the impending rain as their security blanket to say, "oh if not for the rain we would have won". Classic bazball cowardice.

When they were eight down, my mate said to me, "actually, I kind of don't want to get these last two wickets in a hurry" and I 100% agreed. I figured they'd declare soon, especially if the runs dried up.

 

[Topkent]

Selectively applying luck there.

Not really. If there's no rain we lose the game and it goes 2-2. Can't argue that

 

[kickazz]

Not really. If there's no rain we lose the game and it goes 2-2. Can't argue that

Well yes, in your second sentence you selective apply luck. Let me try:

Kumar gives Stokes out at Leeds, we win the game and it goes 3-0. Can't argue with that.

 

[frankrizzo]

I mean how can argue that? Other than disgustingly good luck we were that close to giving up a 2-0 lead and staring into an embarrassing series loss. Record books will show we drew the series but everyone will know we might be the luckiest side in history

So we can measure luck but england having easily best batting and bowling conditions across first three tests doesn't factor into that?

Australia had worst of batting and bowling conditions all three tests away from home those tests shouldn't have been close at all england with conditions advantages should have easily won all three.

 

[Topkent]

Well yes, in your second sentence you selective apply luck. Let me try:

Kumar gives Stokes out at Leeds, we win the game and it goes 3-0. Can't argue with that.

If that's the angle you choose to look sure. Still think we should be playing the game as if it's 2-2 then there can't be any arguments if we win the last game

 

[kickazz]

If that's the angle you choose to look sure. Still think we should be playing the game as if it's 2-2 then there can't be any arguments if we win the last game

Totally agree that needs to be our attitude in the last test.

 

[kickazz]

On the 5th test (when is the thread going to be up for it?) I'm starting to come around to the thinking of making a few changes, particularly with the bowling.

We've just played five tests in a very compressed schedule (thanks to The Hundred, boo) and they've been on uncharacteristically flat decks. This, (along with poor strategy at times) has led us to do more short pitched bowling as well which can be taxing. There has been no sub-200 innings to give them that 'bonus rest'.

A couple of the guys may be hurt (Starc, Marsh) and Cummins is surely buggered. Also, over a long series unless a bowler genuinely has it over a batsman, then the batsman get used to that/those bowlers and are well practised at playing them.

Throwing in a fresh Neser or Abbott would freshen up the team whilst unsettling the opposition batsmen a bit too. (The introduction of Wood and Woakes worked wonders for England) We've got the Ashes and we can afford to take the risk I think.

It may seem unfair to pull the rug out on the guys who have done all the hard work up until now, but it's a team game and I think this is worth some thought.

 

[The Passenger]

Hard to see how both Starc and haze will be right for this test. Both looked spent in Manchester. Cummins largely the same.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Not really. If there's no rain we lose the game and it goes 2-2. Can't argue that

This is true, except that the rain was forecast to wash out most of day 4 and 5 before the first ball had even been bowled. It wasn't a surprise that it did occur.

England made no adjustment to try and take the 20 aussie wickets before the rain came. It's their own fault for not being in a position to get a result.

 

[Financialpanther]

This is true, except that the rain was forecast to wash out most of day 4 and 5 before the first ball had even been bowled. It wasn't a surprise that it did occur.

England made no adjustment to try and take the 20 aussie wickets before the rain came. It's their own fault for not being in a position to get a result.

Good old Bazball hubris on display.

 

[the_interloper]

Pucovski is back playing. I'd like to see him get through a whole Shield season and make a truck load of runs.

Yeah that’s the thing, but he’s got to get through a season first. I heard one of his recent concussions was from a hit to the head from a volleyball pre game, real worry that

 

[badgrill]

You're literally quoting an opinion piece from an Australian journalist as proof of 'England' wanting to change how the Ashes are retained, of course it's relevant...

On a separate topic related to my points about potentially exploring using a ball that will allow more play to be achieved:

Dukes tells England to use its pink ball so Ashes Tests can be played in the dark

English cricket is 'stuck in the past', says Dukes chief Dilip Jajodia

inews.co.uk

not if it's pissing down with rain, though?

 

[Jimthegreat]

Pucovski is in England playing club cricket for Weybridge in the Surrey League, has scored at least 2 100’s as well

Get him a triple size helmet....lol

 

[JackOutback]

If that's the angle you choose to look sure. Still think we should be playing the game as if it's 2-2 then there can't be any arguments if we win the last game

And I am sure that's what Australia will be doing. But the English talking about being just 'luck' away from 2-2 goes the other way too, they were luck away from being 3-1 down going into the final Test. In a five-game series, luck rarely decides who is the overall winner and loser.

 

[BGman]

How do you know when a Pom is talking crap? His lips move!!!

Love this, so true, but have to spoil your fun phil. Haigh is an Aussie, isnt he?

 

[badgrill]

If England win at The Oval it will feel like Australian loss. Still a lot on for this next test.

A 2-2 Ashese series would've been very cool to see play out

wait, wait, wait - you're saying, let me get this straight:

If England WIN, then it will feel like Australia LOSE?

Are you sure about this? Sounds strange tho distinctly Bazballish

 

[Joffaboy]

Colour me shocked.

Brook believes winning at the Oval would be ‘moral victory’ for England

The batter said his side would have won fourth Test if not for rain but Australia will retain the Ashes whatever the result in the final match

www.theguardian.com

I enjoy their delusion and sense of entitlement. Always an excuse, always the victim.

Let's look at it the other way, Australia's strategy was to play steady uniform test cricket and wait for the hubris of bazball to f. uck up. It did in three of four tests
1st, the idiotic declaration day one, then the incredibly panicked field placings at the end of the game
1-0
2nd, England 1-180, throw away their wickets in the quest for entertainment. If it wasn't for Stokes they lose by 200 runs
2-0
3rd, England win but only by a couple of wickets, they were the better team and surprisingly didn't screw the pooch
2-1
4th, the hubris of allowing his mate to have the romantic redemption century, wasting 16 overs. They bowled 71 and got 5 wickets, those extra 16 could have been vital.
2-1 Ashes retained.
So Australia have exploited the flaws of the cult of bazball while not really firing all series and having the worst of the conditions every single test
If you want to talk about luck, try four coin tosses on the trott at home.
We have had one piece of luck while the 2-1 current result is due to good Aussie strategy and England mistakes and basic bazball flaws.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BGman]

A big problem for Green when it comes to criticism is that he isn't a "sexy" allrounder. He's not going to play a swashbuckling innings to turn a game around like the last 3 great English allrounders. He's just been more slow and steady like Kallis.

Then he is in great company so dont change anything Green. I have seen him play 'a swashbuckling innings' on more than one occasion, specifically, last India tour when a declaration was imminent, from memory he smacked a very good Indian attack for four sixes and several fours in a demolition 84*.

 

[badgrill]

It’s a possibility. I smoke like a chimney when I play golf so I’m surprised there hasn’t been more comings and goings of various chemicals

maybe depends what you're smoking...

 

[Jimthegreat]

Yeah that’s the thing, but he’s got to get through a season first. I heard one of his recent concussions was from a hit to the head from a volleyball pre game, real worry that

Bit like Paddy McCartin's last concussion. Utterly innocuous. Puvcoski the obvious man to replace Warner otherwise.

 

[philreich]

Love this, so true, but have to spoil your fun. Haigh is an Aussie, isnt he..

There's 3 things I can never remember - names, nationalities, and the third thing .

 

[BGman]

Pucovski is in England playing club cricket for Weybridge in the Surrey League, has scored at least 2 100’s as well

Been following Puc, Henry Hunt, Bryce Street and Mack Wright too as they all add an Aussie pro touch to Pom League cricket.

 

[philreich]

I mean how can argue that? Other than disgustingly good luck we were that close to giving up a 2-0 lead and staring into an embarrassing series loss. Record books will show we drew the series but everyone will know we might be the luckiest side in history

Luckier than England in 2013? Debatable.