Adopt my philosophy - Discontinue emotional Investment

[The Rusty Trombone]

for me it was at the Suns game - which I was at. Our team had no edge, no fight, gameplan looked plain shithouse... and the alarm bells of another richmond meltdown season started ringing.

can we make the finals now? mathematically? of course. but in reality probably be finishing in the bottom 4. and in terms of coach reappointment, I hope there were some KPIs that the coach had to meet. If not, the board should sacked or made to pass the hat around and I'll chip in whatever it takes to pay Dimma out

After the Suns game nut and I were driving back to the Sunshine Coast 2.5 hrs and I was ropable that we were playing Newman for the first time in his career in the forward line in such an important game and how tall our forward line was on such a greasy night ( they did the same in round 4 against the pies , no late change and it has been raining)
Nut was going off his head because he knew our ball movement and game plan had changed and we were definately being coached to over possess and go side ways backwards 10-15 m passes and blokes that can't kick like Thomas and Cotchin kept coughing it up , all the while we were in the bloody game , if the coaching staff can't take the first 4 points of the season seriously what hope did we have. Hardwick simply has to go in my opinion . Just because he's either lying to us or too himself which is not where we are at . He'll be cooked after the Swans in 3 weeks unfortunately even if we win one as they've forgotten the basics of footy, grind out the first 5 rounds and win ugly and improve from there. Look what Freo did and how Ross Lyin reacted to his teams poor start. Hardwick finally borrowed Ross's line he used in round 4 after our round 10 loss " we are a very mediocre football side at the moment" .

The silly goose stole it verbatim , the bloke had a 3 year contract and he's jumped at shadows all year I don't get it .

 

[TerraTiger]

Wow, this is really worrying guys ....and I might say, understandable. So many good perspectives on here. Particularly liked some of the posts that looked deeper beyond richmond and into the dilution of talent (18 teams), rule changes, AFL mandates supporting new clubs/target markets draging down the enjoyment factor.

I totally hear the frustration, sadness and strategy to disengage in order to cope as a RFC fan. It's rational, sensible. While I've certainly had such thoughts, and totally respect each of us to handle our own way, I'm trying to resist.

Absolute tripe has been served up this year no doubt. If i hear Dimma throw another useless stat I'll spew. If i hear "we'll go back to the tape and rectify it" I may be forced to formally ask to see the club's video facilities. I'm trying to block out the damage control spin from the club.

Why? (a) I don't think this is bad as it seems, (b) (and i know this is likely to be unpopular here but i want to put this perspective across even risking flack) the players are only human.

Not As Bad As It Seems
Many of our core group are very young. Ellis, Conca, Vlas, add in those trying to establish themselves, Lennon, McDonough, Griffiths, Lloyd, Astbury. Rance, Cotch, Jack are hardly veterans. True we have some crap, however I'm interested in giving those listed here, as well as the likes of McBean, O'h, Elton, Miles another season or so to see what they can do development wise. I'll spare anyone really annoyed and still reading any more of my case for the RFC defense and stop with this logic here.

The Players are Only Human
At the risk of sounding like Robbo or Gererd W, would anyone like to by Tyrone Vickery right now? Some of the crap I heard directed at him while sitting in the jack Dyer stand on saturday was disgusting. Sure he is well paid, sure the perception may be he's not trying, going through the motions or whatever, end of the day he's just a kid - he didn't force anyone to pick him as a 1st round draft pick. I don't have any details of the Mitch Clarke situ but I'd hate to think other players that are struggling with expectations end up down the same road. As frustrating as it may be, I want to support him and I hope others do too. Same with cotch, Jack, ........ Darrou all of them with the challenges they face. I'll do this as best as i can.

As such, I'm trying to grit the teeth and keep engaged (and supporting the players) in the hope of development this year and a turn around next year. I don't think it is that unrealistic. Obviously, as this thread shows, each to their own and the trend is really worrying.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

Yep. Over it. I'll watch. I'll go to some games. I'll clap and cheer even. But the belief is gone.

 

[ReaperX]

Amazing story Reaperx and would love to have a beer with you one day if you ever need any advice on employment but it seems you learn very quickly from your mistakes .

Im not trying to be rude here but in all honesty the only tragedy in a lot of our lives is the Richmond Footy club and after a 5 year rebuild where we all sat back and have the club the time it needed they serve up this s**t well it hurts even more.

I have been flogged on here for stating our season was over after round 3 and nearly took a bet that we wouldn't finish higher than Melbourne this year because I just couldn't bring myself to betting against my own club.

It doesn't meek me feel good to have seen the cracks starting appear since trade week last year it makes me ****en ropable that Hardwick and co are still looking for answers. Hopefully Benny Gales doesn't fall for all this arse scratching cause that's what he's doing , treading water until he thinks he's found the right spin to take up stairs . That's just exoeriece talking here mate no disrespect.

Cheers mate, ditto about the beer! I'm in sales so usually those sorts of jobs come around fairly often, but if you ever hear of any great opportunities, please for sure send me a PM or something, as I am currently looking!

And yeah look, I understand the passion and the disappointment that we feel as a collective. I get incredibly frustrated by the way we play sometimes. And certainly, seeing the signs of it but being unable to do anything to stop it, is one of the most frustrating things imaginable as a supporter! :/

I guess I'm trying to sell hope, just like the club is, but at the same time I also do realize that we have some issues that are fairly ingrained within our psyche.

But the mistake we sometimes make, is to link up the failures, as if they are one big collective, when in truth we really can't hang the past failures of Wallace, Frawley, etc onto Dimma. Sure, we can judge him on his performance this year, which has not been fantastic, but two things we can't do are 1) hang him for Richmond's failures as a whole for the past 30 years, as I said, and 2) forget the progress he has made up until this year.

People keep using the argument of "he's made 1 finals series in 4 1/2 years", but that is a loaded statement, because we ALL know how bad things got in the Wallace era, and how the shape of not just our list, but our club as a whole was, pre-Dimma and Gale. Thus, NOBODY was expecting finals in 2010 or 2011, and while in 2012 we started having some higher expectations, we still only just started to become competitive that year and limit some of the awful blowouts that we were experiencing in Dimma's early tenure, due to the massive nature of the rebuild required.

Dimma has muffed it this year, no question. And some of the senior recycled players are not meeting expectations, absolutely no question. But the shape of our list in 2010 was worse than what Melbourne's was at its' lowest, worse than St. Kilda's is now, worse than GWS's is now, and I would even say worse than what Brisbane's currently is, yet Dimma was able to overturn that list to the point that he got us into finals in the 4th year of his time with us.

And usually I'd agree that finals in the 4th year as coach, isn't exactly something to be bragging about. But when you consider that Dimma was a first time senior coach, and also when you consider how his hands were pretty tightly tied behind his back due to external forces (such as new franchises, draft concessions, and the shocking list/debt/facilities the club had at the time), making finals in the 4th year is actually pretty damn impressive.

Some people are saying it might take the Lions 5 or 6 years to be finalists again, and that's if things go well...

And while some will say that our list is clogged with s**t players, well I think the more accurate way of looking at it, is that the list was overhauled and some experience with limited capabilities were added to get us to a competitive stage, while our kids were brought through the system correctly, due to the fact that one of the things Dimma identified when he began, is that too many kids were just handed games at Richmond without earning them.

The onus is on Dimma to start developing the kids quicker, for sure. But the reason why we had to bring in the Houli's, the Grigg's, and the Petterd's of the world, is because we needed "stop-gaps" to make us competitive, while also giving the kids a minimum standard to beat. I'm sure Dimma wants nothing less than for some of those more experienced guys to begin to struggle to get games due to kids breaking through, but unfortunately it hasn't happened yet. It will, but it hasn't YET.

Also, our core list is still in good shape as well.

We only have 4 guys over 30. Newman, King, Stephensen, and A. Edwards. There's a strong chance that most of these guys will be gone at seasons end, maybe bar Newman.

We have a solid core group of players that all have huge potential still, and some who are already stars.

Cotchin (24)
Martin (22)
Deledio (26)
Rance (24)
Riewoldt (25)
S. Edwards (25)
Ellis (20)
Conca (21)
Vlastuin (20)
Lennon (18)

And some promising talent that still need to hone their skills, but have some glimpses at the elite level, enough to feel that they can make it.

Morris (24)
Grimes (22)
Astbury (23)
Griffiths (22)
Vickery (24)
McDonough (20)
Arnot (20)
Miles (20)
Batchelor (22)
Dea (22)

Look at the ages of these guys!!!

And there are a few unknown quantities, like Helbig (22) Elton (21), McIntosh (20), McBean (19) who we need to know a bit more about so we can decide if they can step up.

My point is, the list itself isn't in terrible shape, and if you look at it objectively, it's still a developing one. We're not an established list like a Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong, etc.

This has been a long post, so I will end it here. But I just wanna say one more thing on this, and it's simply that our club is on the verge of some decent success, but this is a big speed bump. The media are shooting us down, but they were shooting down Port Adelaide two years ago too.

This is clearly not going to be a very successful year, but please for the love of science, have some faith in this club, and instead of not turning up or buying memberships in defiance, and saying "you can't have our money until you sack the coach, or make Top 4, etc", just get behind our boys, whether they win/lose/draw, and show everybody that we ARE NOT bandwagoners who only join up when success is around the corner.

Because I tell you what, when Port were pulling crowds of 20k people to home games, it would have sucked, but at the same time, those Port supporters that turned up then... when they turn up now, I guarantee you that their satisfaction is FAR higher than the supporter who stopped seriously supporting them when they were s**t.

/rant.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I can't speak for anybody else but for me it's not so much about this season,we've had far worse and it wasn't totally unexpected to be honest.
It's just collectively so so many years of it drains the enjoyment factor and dims the passion.
I still love the club I'm just far more accepting of how terrible we are than I've ever been I guess would be the best way to describe it.

 

[blaisee]

I can't speak for anybody else but for me it's not so much about this season,we've had far worse and it wasn't totally unexpected to be honest.
It's just collectively so so many years of it drains the enjoyment factor and dims the passion.
I still love the club I'm just far more accepting of how terrible we are than I've ever been I guess would be the best way to describe it.

that's the problem Rodney

There are no consequences for putrid performances, we have been conditioned.

 

[This Is Anfield]

I can't speak for anybody else but for me it's not so much about this season,we've had far worse and it wasn't totally unexpected to be honest.
It's just collectively so so many years of it drains the enjoyment factor and dims the passion.
I still love the club I'm just far more accepting of how terrible we are than I've ever been I guess would be the best way to describe it.

While last year looks like another false dawn, I'm not so sure it is.
After '95 we lost Northey in ridiculous fashion, Brown fighting with Northey's missus, club a shambles off field.
After '01 we ran out of Danny Frawley rah rah and bombed, club still a shambles off field.
As ReaperX stated so well, we have genuine talent and an age balanced list, we didn't shop exclusively at the Reject Shop!
While injuries to Rance, Maric, Deledio, Astbury, Grimes & Jackson hurt us early, it's been the inconsistency of players like Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Grigg, Houli, Hampson (yes he has played some decent games), Chaplin, Morris, Conca, Ellis, Foley, Edwards & Griffiths that has hurt us more, and Vickery's complete lack of confidence & form.
Martin, Vlaustin, Rance & Deledio are probably the only ones who are reaching consistent levels, plus Astbury before injury. Deas been good too.
It's certainly not the fault of upgraded rookies Thomas & Petterd, or newbies Gordon, Lloyd, McDonough and Lennon.
Crossroads for the coaching group led by Dimma, no doubt and will be the making or breaking of them.
Importantly though, the club is no longer a shambles off field, far from it, and can make decisions rationally and without fear or favour.
There will be more going on behind the scenes than we will ever be aware of.
Stay Calm & Have Faith.

 

[1980]

Its because we are not a shambles off the field that we shouldnt be in the exact same position as every one of those times that we were a shambles off the field.

Or maybe we are a shambles off the field in our decision making and key appointments.

While last year looks like another false dawn, I'm not so sure it is.
After '95 we lost Northey in ridiculous fashion, Brown fighting with Northey's missus, club a shambles off field.
After '01 we ran out of Danny Frawley rah rah and bombed, club still a shambles off field.
As ReaperX stated so well, we have genuine talent and an age balanced list, we didn't shop exclusively at the Reject Shop!
While injuries to Rance, Maric, Deledio, Astbury, Grimes & Jackson hurt us early, it's been the inconsistency of players like Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Grigg, Houli, Hampson (yes he has played some decent games), Chaplin, Morris, Conca, Ellis, Foley, Edwards & Griffiths that has hurt us more, and Vickery's complete lack of confidence & form.
Martin, Vlaustin, Rance & Deledio are probably the only ones who are reaching consistent levels, plus Astbury before injury. Deas been good too.
It's certainly not the fault of upgraded rookies Thomas & Petterd, or newbies Gordon, Lloyd, McDonough and Lennon.
Crossroads for the coaching group led by Dimma, no doubt and will be the making or breaking of them.
Importantly though, the club is no longer a shambles off field, far from it, and can make decisions rationally and without fear or favour.
There will be more going on behind the scenes than we will ever be aware of.
Stay Calm & Have Faith.

 

[ReaperX]

I usually post long posts about this sort of stuff, but I've basically said all I can... except the following. And it's going to sound a bit weird, but bear with me here...

Richmond needs to be allowed to "fail" in a season, without everybody assuming that it's the end times, and that another total rebuild is required, false dawns, etc.

I'm not saying we should accept failure as a constant anymore, because we shouldn't. But it's not a black and white issue, there are always elements of grey, and quite frankly... well, sometimes good teams just go through bad slumps of form that can last weeks (or even months), but come out the other side better for it.

The reason we never DO get out of it, is because we always make knee-jerk reactions to poor form the MOMENT that things get tough, and therefore we pull the trigger too early, and destroy what we've been building so we can start again. This in turn becomes the cycle that we follow, which is why we've been s**t for 30 years.

In lamens terms... our cycle of shitness makes us angry, but us getting angry so quickly makes the cycle of shitness continue.

Imagine you're making a paper plane, and you get every fold absolutely spot on, except one towards the end. You don't just throw it away, you go back and correct the mistake that you made, and re-fold it, right? Sometimes as RFC supporters we just scrunch up and throw away the piece of paper completely, when all that was needed was some backtracking and re-folding.

We as a collective supporter base just need to calm down, let the season unfold, and stop calling for Dimma's head every time something goes wrong.

We're going to be okay.

 

[This Is Anfield]

I usually post long posts about this sort of stuff, but I've basically said all I can... except the following. And it's going to sound a bit weird, but bear with me here...

Richmond needs to be allowed to "fail" in a season, without everybody assuming that it's the end times, and that another total rebuild is required, false dawns, etc.

I'm not saying we should accept failure as a constant anymore, because we shouldn't. But it's not a black and white issue, there are always elements of grey, and quite frankly... well, sometimes good teams just go through bad slumps of form that can last weeks (or even months), but come out the other side better for it.

The reason we never DO get out of it, is because we always make knee-jerk reactions to poor form the MOMENT that things get tough, and therefore we pull the trigger too early, and destroy what we've been building so we can start again. This in turn becomes the cycle that we follow, which is why we've been s**t for 30 years.

In lamens terms... our cycle of shitness makes us angry, but us getting angry so quickly makes the cycle of shitness continue.

Imagine you're making a paper plane, and you get every fold absolutely spot on, except one towards the end. You don't just throw it away, you go back and correct the mistake that you made, and re-fold it, right? Sometimes as RFC supporters we just scrunch up and throw away the piece of paper completely, when all that was needed was some backtracking and re-folding.

We as a collective supporter base just need to calm down, let the season unfold, and stop calling for Dimma's head every time something goes wrong.

We're going to be okay.

Will second this!
Take a deep breath folks!

 

[Ralll]

Meh I gave up emotional investment a long time ago.
Yell and scream during games but as soon as the siren goes ICGAF.

 

[Harvey Leadpipe]

Good thread IDDY. Was going to post something long and stirring, but I can't be ****ed. Not worth my time and effort.

They don't give a ****, so why should I.

Makes the decision on whether to go to the races or the footy so much easier.

 

[Yogibear17]

Cheers mate, ditto about the beer! I'm in sales so usually those sorts of jobs come around fairly often, but if you ever hear of any great opportunities, please for sure send me a PM or something, as I am currently looking!

And yeah look, I understand the passion and the disappointment that we feel as a collective. I get incredibly frustrated by the way we play sometimes. And certainly, seeing the signs of it but being unable to do anything to stop it, is one of the most frustrating things imaginable as a supporter! :/

I guess I'm trying to sell hope, just like the club is, but at the same time I also do realize that we have some issues that are fairly ingrained within our psyche.

But the mistake we sometimes make, is to link up the failures, as if they are one big collective, when in truth we really can't hang the past failures of Wallace, Frawley, etc onto Dimma. Sure, we can judge him on his performance this year, which has not been fantastic, but two things we can't do are 1) hang him for Richmond's failures as a whole for the past 30 years, as I said, and 2) forget the progress he has made up until this year.

People keep using the argument of "he's made 1 finals series in 4 1/2 years", but that is a loaded statement, because we ALL know how bad things got in the Wallace era, and how the shape of not just our list, but our club as a whole was, pre-Dimma and Gale. Thus, NOBODY was expecting finals in 2010 or 2011, and while in 2012 we started having some higher expectations, we still only just started to become competitive that year and limit some of the awful blowouts that we were experiencing in Dimma's early tenure, due to the massive nature of the rebuild required.

Dimma has muffed it this year, no question. And some of the senior recycled players are not meeting expectations, absolutely no question. But the shape of our list in 2010 was worse than what Melbourne's was at its' lowest, worse than St. Kilda's is now, worse than GWS's is now, and I would even say worse than what Brisbane's currently is, yet Dimma was able to overturn that list to the point that he got us into finals in the 4th year of his time with us.

And usually I'd agree that finals in the 4th year as coach, isn't exactly something to be bragging about. But when you consider that Dimma was a first time senior coach, and also when you consider how his hands were pretty tightly tied behind his back due to external forces (such as new franchises, draft concessions, and the shocking list/debt/facilities the club had at the time), making finals in the 4th year is actually pretty damn impressive.

Some people are saying it might take the Lions 5 or 6 years to be finalists again, and that's if things go well...

And while some will say that our list is clogged with s**t players, well I think the more accurate way of looking at it, is that the list was overhauled and some experience with limited capabilities were added to get us to a competitive stage, while our kids were brought through the system correctly, due to the fact that one of the things Dimma identified when he began, is that too many kids were just handed games at Richmond without earning them.

The onus is on Dimma to start developing the kids quicker, for sure. But the reason why we had to bring in the Houli's, the Grigg's, and the Petterd's of the world, is because we needed "stop-gaps" to make us competitive, while also giving the kids a minimum standard to beat. I'm sure Dimma wants nothing less than for some of those more experienced guys to begin to struggle to get games due to kids breaking through, but unfortunately it hasn't happened yet. It will, but it hasn't YET.

Also, our core list is still in good shape as well.

We only have 4 guys over 30. Newman, King, Stephensen, and A. Edwards. There's a strong chance that most of these guys will be gone at seasons end, maybe bar Newman.

We have a solid core group of players that all have huge potential still, and some who are already stars.

Cotchin (24)
Martin (22)
Deledio (26)
Rance (24)
Riewoldt (25)
S. Edwards (25)
Ellis (20)
Conca (21)
Vlastuin (20)
Lennon (18)

And some promising talent that still need to hone their skills, but have some glimpses at the elite level, enough to feel that they can make it.

Morris (24)
Grimes (22)
Astbury (23)
Griffiths (22)
Vickery (24)
McDonough (20)
Arnot (20)
Miles (20)
Batchelor (22)
Dea (22)

Look at the ages of these guys!!!

And there are a few unknown quantities, like Helbig (22) Elton (21), McIntosh (20), McBean (19) who we need to know a bit more about so we can decide if they can step up.

My point is, the list itself isn't in terrible shape, and if you look at it objectively, it's still a developing one. We're not an established list like a Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong, etc.

This has been a long post, so I will end it here. But I just wanna say one more thing on this, and it's simply that our club is on the verge of some decent success, but this is a big speed bump. The media are shooting us down, but they were shooting down Port Adelaide two years ago too.

This is clearly not going to be a very successful year, but please for the love of science, have some faith in this club, and instead of not turning up or buying memberships in defiance, and saying "you can't have our money until you sack the coach, or make Top 4, etc", just get behind our boys, whether they win/lose/draw, and show everybody that we ARE NOT bandwagoners who only join up when success is around the corner.

Because I tell you what, when Port were pulling crowds of 20k people to home games, it would have sucked, but at the same time, those Port supporters that turned up then... when they turn up now, I guarantee you that their satisfaction is FAR higher than the supporter who stopped seriously supporting them when they were s**t.

/rant.

Outstanding post. Say no more.

 

[captain blood 17]

Bump, still relevant from my mate IDGAF


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.

 

[Bojangles17]

Listen , I love a lot of you guys like brothers , but fair dinkum spare me the schoolgirl rants , if I hear one more time, ooh I've been supporting the club since 74, bought upteen raffle tickets , member for 20plus years ......
Toughen up and grow some balls , that's how respect is earnt .......

 

[captain blood 17]

Still a valid discussion point one year on BJ.

 

[Bojangles17]

Still a valid discussion point one year on BJ.

Is it mate or is it a backhander to those that do have an emotional investment , coz that's how I read and I know plenty others that read it like that too

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

TBH i love riding the highs and lows.. beating up that kid at school that would give me s**t for wearing a Richmond scarf which I then used to choke him.. it made me who I am today...

 

[captain blood 17]

Is it mate or is it a backhander to those that do have an emotional investment , coz that's how I read and I know plenty others that read it like that too

Dunno, or is the club continually backhanding the supporters.


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.

 

[Juke]

Ordinary thread, ridiculous bump. I'm sure you weren't emotionally invested during the 9 game streak, were you?

 

[Livonski]

Ordinary thread, ridiculous bump. I'm sure you weren't emotionally invested during the 9 game streak, were you?

Spot on. Notice the posting quantity of the usual suspects post yesterday.
They love it when we lose, gives them a chance for I told you so.
Couple of wins and they'll be back under their rocks, for sure.

 

[Tiger7374]

Spot on. Notice the posting quantity of the usual suspects post yesterday.
They love it when we lose, gives them a chance for I told you so.
Couple of wins and they'll be back under their rocks, for sure.

Liv...I was active yesterday...and I'm not someone who is inherently negative...as a matter of fact I'm very proud of our standing as a club.

I have legitimate concerns tho...so I expressed them. We walked into this game unprepared...and we should have been...or if we were prepared, where was our plan B when A had failed?

If the MC had the review of the dogs round 1 game, they would have seen speed and intercept....actually they could have reviewed last years game as well.

Whatever happens this year, I think a shakeout is very due of the whole Footy Dept.

 

[captain blood 17]

Ordinary thread, ridiculous bump. I'm sure you weren't emotionally invested during the 9 game streak, were you?

It's 2015 champ. And we just witnessed the same type of loss that has occurred the last three years.

Spot on. Notice the posting quantity of the usual suspects post yesterday.
They love it when we lose, gives them a chance for I told you so.
Couple of wins and they'll be back under their rocks, for sure.

Not all of us are blinkered cheerleaders. The good needs to be recognised. The bad needs to be discussed.


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.

 

[Livonski]

Liv...I was active yesterday...and I'm not someone who is inherently negative...as a matter of fact I'm very proud of our standing as a club.

I have legitimate concerns tho...so I expressed them. We walked into this game unprepared...and we should have been...or if we were prepared, where was our plan B when A had failed?

If the MC had the review of the dogs round 1 game, they would have seen speed and intercept....actually they could have reviewed last years game as well.

Whatever happens this year, I think a shakeout is very due of the whole Footy Dept.

Wasn't referring to you. others who are non existent during the 9-0 run suddenly reappear after a loss. And the only argument is sack the coach cos game day coaching is useless. It's an argument devoid of evidence outside of, we lost.

Plan A didn't fail.
Our disposal was shithouse, we turned it over relentlessly.
Cost us the game.

 

[Livonski]

Not all of us are blinkered cheerleaders. The good needs to be recognised. The bad needs to be discussed.


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.[/QUOTE]

Not directed at you either.

I'm more interested in a discussion about why we lost, rather than Hardwicks shithouse, no plan b nonsense.
And yep, didn't mind your synopsis in the other thread, at least a though out opinion.