after the Hawks premiership
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Footy 1st
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- Apr 22, 2012
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???? Why would anyone post about Hawthorn in Hawthorn threads???? What's this thread called? Does the OP even mention Hawthorn?
Anyway anyone actually going to return to the debate re: the 3 champion teams?
We've done it multiple times and a handful of hawthorn supporters start crying every time the majority come to the conclusion they aren't better than geelong, then they irrationally defend themselves, then everyone gives them s**t, then they accuse ppl of obsessing over hawthorn, then we laugh some more.
Footy 1st
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- Apr 22, 2012
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Well that clears everything up.
Footy 1st
Cancelled
- Apr 22, 2012
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- 2,310
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
Each 'Dominant' era has virtually ran concurrently, so I have based my rating from season 2000-2014.
1st Geelong, 2nd Hawthorn, 3rd Brisbane.
In these 15 Seasons all 3 have won 3 Premierships, all have played in 4 Grand Finals yet only 2008 featured 2 of these Champion sides at the big dance.
So for me I went with F&A & finishing ladder positions:
Geelong - 33,359/27,963= 119.30%
Hawthorn - 32,254/29,870= 107.98%
Brisbane - 31,491/30,943= 101.77%
Wins:
Geelong 219
Hawthorn 188
Brisbane 163
Times finished in top half of ladder:
Geelong - 11 (4 bottom half)
Hawthorn - 9 (6 bottom half)
Brisbane - 6 (9 bottom half)
For me it's about the amount of sustained supporter enjoyment. The Cats have the greater consistency
1st Geelong, 2nd Hawthorn, 3rd Brisbane.
In these 15 Seasons all 3 have won 3 Premierships, all have played in 4 Grand Finals yet only 2008 featured 2 of these Champion sides at the big dance.
So for me I went with F&A & finishing ladder positions:
Geelong - 33,359/27,963= 119.30%
Hawthorn - 32,254/29,870= 107.98%
Brisbane - 31,491/30,943= 101.77%
Wins:
Geelong 219
Hawthorn 188
Brisbane 163
Times finished in top half of ladder:
Geelong - 11 (4 bottom half)
Hawthorn - 9 (6 bottom half)
Brisbane - 6 (9 bottom half)
For me it's about the amount of sustained supporter enjoyment. The Cats have the greater consistency
Brock Lesnar
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That confirms you are speaking crap
Hawthorn won more games in the H/A in 2011 than in 2014. It's perfectly reasonable to argue they were just as good then as they are now.
Seriously only insecure Hawthorn fans would argue that Fremantle and Sydney were as good as St Kilda (2009) and Collingwood (2011), if you're gonna do so, provide some evidence for christ sake. St Kilda were 22-3 in 2009 (lost 3 games by a total of 19 points, won 19 straight games at a stage). Collingwood were 22-3 in 2011 with a percentage of about 167% (22-0 against everybody apart from Geelong).
C'mon Hawthorn supporters, explain how Fremantle and Sydney were anywhere near as good as that.
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Surely Sydney should be spoken about as the 3rd/4th best team this century?
Played something like 9 of the last 10 finals series and won 2 premierships.
Played something like 9 of the last 10 finals series and won 2 premierships.
4th imo.
That's okay
I'm just fascinated to see how you are going to explain away how the Hawks flags won were any easier than the Lions (merger concessions, zonal picks 'n all
)Given that the Lions played the Bombers 17/5, Magpies 13/9 + 15/7 and Power 17/5 it should make for some interesting reading
...compared to Geelong 21/1, Swans 16/6 + 17/5 and Fremantle 16/6
Just my personal opinion butI suspect that you are probably out of your depth
His points are totally valid, and given the inconsistency of the draw and team form throughout seasons, how strong a team is come finals can often be significantly more or less compared to h&a records. I'm happy to admit saints and collingwood were better teams than Sydney in 2012 and 2014, they were awesome to watch.That's okay
I'm just fascinated to see how you are going to explain away how the Hawks flags won were any easier than the Lions (merger concessions, zonal picks 'n all
Given that the Lions played the Bombers 17/5, Magpies 13/9 + 15/7 and Power 17/5 it should make for some interesting reading
...compared to Geelong 21/1, Swans 16/6 + 17/5 and Fremantle 16/6
Just my personal opinion butI suspect that you are probably out of your depth
Dont let this critical reasoning confuse you though, it may be "a little out of your depth".
I even put them both above hawthorn in in 2013/14. Both were incredibly intimidating and devastating on the field with their forward pressure...and Geelong beat them both, kinda says something.
Maybe. That's a bit like me saying that Hawthorn 2008 and St Kilda 2009 were the greatest of them all given they were the only teams this century to defeat all teams in the competition for the season, right?
Kinda says something about their credentials right
Kinda says something about their credentials right
Not sure what you mean there.Maybe. That's a bit like me saying that Hawthorn 2008 was the greatest of them all given they were the only team this century to defeat all teams in the competition right
Kinda says something about their giant credentials hey
For me the 2009-11 period was the most aggressive, high quality footy the game has ever seen, and as pretentious or nostalgic as it may sound, I actually feel little privileged to have witnessed it. Something I will tell me kids about one day.
The game since 2011 seems to have slipped back towards the average a bit more. This doesn't take away from how awesome going back-to-back is. Any flag is an amazing feat.
Brock Lesnar
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That's okay
I'm just fascinated to see how you are going to explain away how the Hawks flags won were any easier than the Lions (merger concessions, zonal picks 'n all
Given that the Lions played the Bombers 17/5, Magpies 13/9 + 15/7 and Power 17/5 it should make for some interesting reading
...compared to Geelong 21/1, Swans 16/6 + 17/5 and Fremantle 16/6
Just my personal opinion butI suspect that you are probably out of your depth
Still waiting you guys to explain how Fremantle and Sydney were better than St Kilda and Collingwood....
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I'm sure they will be in awe of that amazing 3 year period.
Lethality
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In this era Hawthorn have knocked Geelong out of finals twice and been able to go back to back when Geelong have not. That puts them categorically ahead of Geelong.
Ho ho ho
That only happened in the last 13 months, when Geelong had slipped significantly from their peak, as have the other juggernaughts of the years before.
Go back and read the thread.
Simple premise to understand.
In all other seasons since the turn of the century, a team had failed to conquer all 15, 16 or 17 teams across the season. For example in 2014 Hawthorn defeated 17 of the 18 teams across the entire season (the only team to have their measure was North Melbourne), in 2013 Richmond had our measure, in 2012 Richmond had the Swans measure, in 2011 Essendon had the Cats measure etc. etc. etc.
In 2008 Hawthorn successfully defeated all 15 teams on their way to a flag. Not many manage this (although I edited the post to recognise that the Saints in '09 match the Hawks of '08) and I'm not sure why Dan26 doesn't recognise this very fact in his ranking of 118 VFL/AFL premiers
On an unrelated note, while we're talking about largely subjective assessments of the 2009-2011, the vibe of the day if you will
you can throw in 2008 which was all the more dominate than 2010...all that said I think you'll find that it coincided with the intermission between the Swans ultra defensive, lock down eras that have plagued the game before and since
Still waiting for you to explain how the Bombers, Magpies and Power were stronger than the Cats, Swans and Dockers
As it is Ive never disputed that the Power, Hawks, Saints and Magpies were stronger than the Cats, Swans and Dockers
More to the point, Im even more interested to see you explain how the Lions three peat wasn't compromised by the merger salary cap concessions. LikeI said, I suspect you may be out of your depth here
2008?
Wow, here you still are, 6 posts on this page alone. You're like the alcoholic who says 'I'm not an alcoholic', or the heavily addicted smoker, puffing himself to death and saying 'my smoking's not a problem'. You say 'I'm not obsessed', more to convince yourself than anyone else, and then post incessantly and obsessively about the subject you say you're not obsessed about. actions speak WAY louder than words, my friend. Seek help.
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