Ben Cunnington vs Tom Liberatore

[ManOfClay]

Whereas Liberatore only has to fight Griffen (and Boyd when he is in).

Also unlike Cunnington Liberatore doesn't rest forward so it is unfair to use goals. Liberatore spends more time on the ground and spends it all on the ball because his fitness is much better than Cunnington's.

Not saying they aren't reasonably even but that line of argument isn't very pertinent.

 

[Daz]

Stats certainly aren't the be all and end all. Annoying for the sake of this debate that Cunnington was subbed on the weekend (obviously nothing to do with performance).

They'll both be top 3 in the B&F IMO. Reckon Cunnington would've been leading the count before his weeks off.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

Libba has to contend with Boyd (one of the biggest ball magnets in the game, no matter how badly he butchers it) and Griffen. They're a bit more proficient than Swallow and Ziebell.

Boyd isn't as good as Ziebell.... it's 2013, not 2009.

Griffen is a top 5 player in the comp IMO - i'll give you that - but in terms of pure numbers, Norf's midfield has more options and therefore more numbers going through and less "available" stats if you get what i'm saying. Wells, Bastinac, Adams and Greenwood now etc etc all play GT % as inside mids.
Anyway, we have 3 libbas, enjoy your 1.

 

[Igloo]

Boyd isn't as good as Ziebell.... it's 2013, not 2009.

Griffen is a top 5 player in the comp IMO - i'll give you that - but in terms of pure numbers, Norf's midfield has more options and therefore more numbers going through and less "available" stats if you get what i'm saying. Wells, Bastinac, Adams and Greenwood now etc etc all play GT % as inside mids.
Anyway, we have 3 libbas, enjoy your 1.

Boyd gets a s**t ton more of the ball than Ziebell, that's the point. He's one of the best players in the league at getting first or 2nd hands to the ball. Libba has to contend with that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that 2nd part. Pretty much all we have is inside midfielders .

 

[doggies ftw]

Boyd isn't as good as Ziebell.... it's 2013, not 2009.

Griffen is a top 5 player in the comp IMO - i'll give you that - but in terms of pure numbers, Norf's midfield has more options and therefore more numbers going through and less "available" stats if you get what i'm saying. Wells, Bastinac, Adams and Greenwood now etc etc all play GT % as inside mids.
Anyway, we have 3 libbas, enjoy your 1.

Our 1s still better

 

[Bulldog1954]

Cunnington has to fight Ziebell and Swallow for his numbers so I'd say pound for pound there is nothing between them.

Not you but other North fans earlier were using the argument that it was an advantage to Libber in that he had more support from other mids. That was a rubbish argument but just shows how factors like the quality of mids your surrounded with can be used in positive or negative lights in a comparison like this. Personally I feel that North clearly have a better midfield but as they are both very much contested players they aren't as reliant on their team mates as other players may be

 

[Substance]

I think there is a pretty big gap now. Libba has shown he is capable of match winning and team lifting performances. He's been in our best 3 about a dozen times this year and probably warrants a tag after griffen. Until Cunnington can prove he can be BOG consistently, this discussion is over for now.

 

[Daz]

I think there is a pretty big gap now. Libba has shown he is capable of match winning and team lifting performances. He's been in our best 3 about a dozen times this year and probably warrants a tag after griffen. Until Cunnington can prove he can be BOG consistently, this discussion is over for now.

Cunnington's probably been our best player this year.

 

[Substance]

Cunnington's probably been our best player this year.

Yes well, you don't have Ryan Griffen.

My point was that Liberatore is already getting regular BOGs. Cunnington isn't.

Cunnington hasn't even had the ball more than 25 times once this year, while Libba has done it 7 times with 4 times 30+. These aren't cheap possessions either, they're from BOG or very close to performances.

 

[Daz]

Yes well, you don't have Ryan Griffen.

My point was that Liberatore is already getting regular BOGs. Cunnington isn't.

Cunnington hasn't even had the ball more than 25 times once this year, while Libba has done it 7 times with 4 times 30+. These aren't cheap possessions either, they're from BOG or very close to performances.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't seen much of Ben Cunnington. If you had you wouldn't be counting him out based on stats alone.

 

[Substance]

I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't seen much of Ben Cunnington. If you had you wouldn't be counting him out based on stats alone.

Saw him against brisbane. Thought he went missing after qtr time. Does it a lot too. I've seen him plenty.

 

[Engimal]

I think there is a pretty big gap now. Libba has shown he is capable of match winning and team lifting performances. He's been in our best 3 about a dozen times this year and probably warrants a tag after griffen. Until Cunnington can prove he can be BOG consistently, this discussion is over for now.

I'd put Cunnington's work near the best for North as of recent times, yesterday excluded.

 

[ManOfClay]

As good as Cunnington is, Liberatore on current form is probably the best pure inside mid in the competition.

 

[doggies ftw]

As good as Cunnington is, Liberatore on current form is probably the best pure inside mid in the competition.

And he's only 21, his inside work is just ridiculous and his quick hands set Griff free so much, perfect combo them two. Helps that his disposal is great too, so good!!

 

[Dazb86]

33 touches, 11 clearances and one goal at 79%.

Another stellar game from Libba.

 

[Roobound]

33 touches, 11 clearances and one goal at 79%.

Another stellar game from Libba.

It was a stellar game, cant deny that. He would be ahead in most peoples eyes given his exceptional recent form as well.
I'm more than happy with the output from Cunners though.

On another note that ridiculous decision to call the ball back last week did my f***ing head in, play could not get more continuous than that.
Good to see fight in the doggies.

 

[Barnzy]

I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't seen much of Ben Cunnington. If you had you wouldn't be counting him out based on stats alone.

Seen plenty of Cunners. Good player and has improved a lot this year but he ain't no Libba.

 

[ManOfClay]

Seen plenty of Cunners. Good player and has improved a lot this year but he ain't no Libba.

Yep correct. Saying Liberatore>Cunnington is not denigrating Cunnington in any way, shape or form.

Liberatore's season has been probably the biggest positive out of the year (aside from the 4 wins, 2 more than most media had us getting). He's been so good most have forgotten about his little indiscretion last year.

 

[Dan]

Libba has to compete with Cooney, Griffen and Boyd when has played. Cunnington is playing with Wells, Ziebell, Swallow, Gibson, Bastinac and Harvey. None of those guys are having the year that Griffen is having, that's a given. But all those North midfielders are averaging 20+ disposals a game.

Much harder to get the ball when it's shared around with 6 other midfield players. The suggestion that Cunnington has it easier over Libba because North has no Griffen is dumb.

Although I'm happy to say Libba is having the better season to date from what I've seen.

 

[ManOfClay]

Libba has to compete with Cooney, Griffen and Boyd when has played. Cunnington is playing with Wells, Ziebell, Swallow, Gibson, Bastinac and Harvey. None of those guys are having the year that Griffen is having, that's a given. But all those North midfielders are averaging 20+ disposals a game.

Much harder to get the ball when it's shared around with 6 other midfield players. The suggestion that Cunnington has it easier over Libba because North has no Griffen is dumb.

It's a stupid argument that xx is competing with xx full stop. Every midfielder in the league is competing with three others on their team at the centre bounce.

The good players get the ball regardless of who is next to them. As Libba does.

 

[Substance]

I think there is some merit to the idea of players playing better with good players around them, but it's a little pointless trying to work out who has it easier. Libba is our 2nd best mid that's what I know.

 

[doggies ftw]

It's a stupid argument that xx is competing with xx full stop. Every midfielder in the league is competing with three others on their team at the centre bounce.

The good players get the ball regardless of who is next to them. As Libba does.

Exactly, also it doesn't matter who Libba is competing with, fact is he gets first hands on the ball almost every time (backed up by being number 1 in clearances in the league)

 

[Roobound]

Exactly, also it doesn't matter who Libba is competing with, fact is he gets first hands on the ball almost every time (backed up by being number 1 in clearances in the league)

I don't disagree with this statement, but some credit needs to go to Big Will.
What l like about Libba is he may not have elite speed but he does have good speed & a good couple of first steps which gets him in good position to tackle if the ball is not directed at him. That may be because he has such great ability to read the tap & allows him to close down on the player.

Ziebell & Swallow for North also have this ability while not being elite speed.

 

[doggies ftw]

I don't disagree with this statement, but some credit needs to go to Big Will.
What l like about Libba is he may not have elite speed but he does have good speed & a good couple of first steps which gets him in good position to tackle if the ball is not directed at him. That may be because he has such great ability to read the tap & allows him to close down on the player.

Ziebell & Swallow for North also have this ability while not being elite speed.

Yeah definitely, will has been awesome! And yeah his speed has surprised me a bit this year, as you say not elite but definitely good enough. His ability to read the play is great and some of his handballs are ridiculous, sometimes you wonder how he even saw a player and then to get the handball out to him.

IMO after this year I'd have Libba ahead but as I said earlier in the year you wouldn't find any dogs supporters who would swap Libba for Cunners and you probably wouldn't find many north supporters who would swap Cunners for Libba and that's fair enough.

 

[Elite Master]

Liberatore by the size of the MCG and the gap will only widen in the future. Cunnington will be good, but not great or elite.