List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[BPikkers]

In watching yesterday's retirements, both rookies and premiership players, I wonder how much damage hanging on to Thomas and Keefe has actually done to the club. 2 rookies could have been picked up who may very well have turned into gems.

It's great the club showed quite a bit of loyalty to these boys, but it really has not done us any favours.

 

[Quicky]

In watching yesterday's retirements, both rookies and premiership players, I wonder how much damage hanging on to Thomas and Keefe has actually done to the club. 2 rookies could have been picked up who may very well have turned into gems.

It's great the club showed quite a bit of loyalty to these boys, but it really has not done us any favours.

The flip side is we have two guys that have AFL experience and we know at a pinch will perform. I think it is actually a positive.

 

[Piestration]

Come on mate get some perspective. Im not suggesting he is a current superstar, I am well aware of where he is at.

At the end of the day he is a premiership full forward, Copeland Trophy winner, multiple All Australian full forward, who won our goal kicking 4 years straight. He will go down as a superstar full forward through some great years in the eyes of many pies fans.

What I am saying is why trade him in the twilight of his career for a bag of potato chips? If we were going down that road we should have entertained a trade a few years ago when the possibility of landing someone like a Cameron, Patton, or Lynch for him may have been a legitimate option. If we trade him now for someone like WHE, we leave ourselves without a solid 2nd forward option to Moore. Or for someone like S.Reid we are downgrading.

What is the benefit in trading him now?

Unless he is going to be replaced by someone that makes our team better, let him play out his career in the black and white.

It takes two to tango. Maybe Cloke has checked out and it isn't just the clubs decision on what happens next year. We don't know whats going on behind closed doors. If Cloke was contributing to the team then I agree he should be kept IF we can't do better but based on the last few years why would you keep him. We need to top up and fill our list with the best possible players we can secure moving forward. Cloke would be taking up one of those positions and an important one at that.

 

[Captain Embubry]

It takes two to tango. Maybe Cloke has checked out and it isn't just the clubs decision on what happens next year. We don't know whats going on behind closed doors. If Cloke was contributing to the team then I agree he should be kept IF we can't do better but based on the last few years why would you keep him. We need to top up and fill our list with the best possible players we can secure moving forward. Cloke would be taking up one of those positions and an important one at that.

I can see where you are coming from, and if it is Cloke who wants out and not the other way around then we should 100% trade him and deal with what we get.

But I don't see the value in forcing him out the door. What would you trade him for that he isn't already giving us, or which wouldn't leave us still needing to fill a hole?

The most realistic ideas that have been floated are:

• Sam Reid - Absolutely gives us nothing we aren't already getting with Cloke. And is injury prone.
• Will Hoskin Elliot - Potentially good future player, but then we are relying on Moore to stay fit all year next year with only Cox as back up.
• Jack Riewoldt - Best case scenario but probably not going to happen. We would have to give up more than Cloke and Witts.

So with that in mind, who is he taking up a "valuable" position from?

 

[Piestration]

I can see where you are coming from, and if it is Cloke who wants out and not the other way around then we should 100% trade him and deal with what we get.

But I don't see the value in forcing him out the door. What would you trade him for that he isn't already giving us, or which wouldn't leave us still needing to fill a hole?

The most realistic ideas that have been floated are:

• Sam Reid - Absolutely gives us nothing we aren't already getting with Cloke. And is injury prone.
• Will Hoskin Elliot - Potentially good future player, but then we are relying on Moore to stay fit all year next year with only Cox as back up.
• Jack Riewoldt - Best case scenario but probably not going to happen. We would have to give up more than Cloke and Witts.

So with that in mind, who is he taking up a "valuable" position from?

The club would already have multiple players and options in play with possible negotiations. We aren't Bichmond so hopefully we get what we are targeting.

 

[MightyPies2010]

So with that in mind, who is he taking up a "valuable" position from?

Cloke has been holding back Gaults development/ career for years, its just got to stop!

 

[TradeDraft]

So is there any actual real goss on the trade sources or just the same old crap?

At the Moment. Just all Talk

 

[Apex36]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but based on Swans reported insurance payout of $400k, which is meant to be half of what a player has earned in their contract before injuring themselves, depending on whether Cloke stays or goes, we've just opened up between $1.2m and $1.6m in cap space.

That's one hell of a war chest!

 

[TheSierBear]

Is Swan's insurance payout good for salary cap relief...?

 

[Apex36]

Is Swan's insurance payout good for salary cap relief...?

Not the payout itself, no. I was using it to determine Swans current salary, which if the reports of a $400k payout are correct, is $800k.
So that $800k is now free in the cap, in addition to another $400k if Cloke stays, or $800k if he goes. Hence the $1.2m or $1.6m of newly freed cap space.

 

[mattys123]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but based on Swans reported insurance payout of $400k, which is meant to be half of what a player has earned in their contract before injuring themselves, depending on whether Cloke stays or goes, we've just opened up between $1.2m and $1.6m in cap space.

That's one hell of a war chest!

One hell of a war chest that we probably can't spend for 12 months at least.

it's almost too late now to be chasing the big name players in this year's trade period because it's common knowledge that a lot of deals are done months in advance now.

We are targeting the trade and FA period at the end of next season, and I'm fine with that, we aren't winning a flag next year, heck we may not even play finals so I can wait 12 months to chase a few big names.

We will still be active this trade period but it may well be to ensure firstly we have enough points for Daicos and Brown, then enough points to get back into the top 25-30 of the draft with a few picks.

 

[Roverjg]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but based on Swans reported insurance payout of $400k, which is meant to be half of what a player has earned in their contract before injuring themselves, depending on whether Cloke stays or goes, we've just opened up between $1.2m and $1.6m in cap space.

That's one hell of a war chest!

Not quite....Swanny was on the veteran's list. I can't remember how much of a veteran's contract is included in the salary cap.

 

[Apex36]

Not quite....Swanny was on the veteran's list. I can't remember how much of a veteran's contract is included in the salary cap.

I think it's only $100k excluded from the cap now, so not a huge chunk.

 

[TW Sherrin]

In watching yesterday's retirements, both rookies and premiership players, I wonder how much damage hanging on to Thomas and Keefe has actually done to the club. 2 rookies could have been picked up who may very well have turned into gems.

It's great the club showed quite a bit of loyalty to these boys, but it really has not done us any favours.

in hindsight it has worked out better. they are experienced senior players.

 

[TW Sherrin]

One hell of a war chest that we probably can't spend for 12 months at least.

it's almost too late now to be chasing the big name players in this year's trade period because it's common knowledge that a lot of deals are done months in advance now.

We are targeting the trade and FA period at the end of next season, and I'm fine with that, we aren't winning a flag next year, heck we may not even play finals so I can wait 12 months to chase a few big names.

We will still be active this trade period but it may well be to ensure firstly we have enough points for Daicos and Brown, then enough points to get back into the top 25-30 of the draft with a few picks.

I read somewhere we paid around 90% this year so we can got over 100% next year.

 

[frizzle]

Is Swan's insurance payout good for salary cap relief...?

I read somewhere we paid around 90% this year so we can got over 100% next year.

You have to pay at least 95% of your cap. AFL rules.

 

[Tazzaye]

Riewoldt to Hawthorn wouldn't bloody suprise me if it happened

 

[Scodog10]

Not the payout itself, no. I was using it to determine Swans current salary, which if the reports of a $400k payout are correct, is $800k.
So that $800k is now free in the cap, in addition to another $400k if Cloke stays, or $800k if he goes. Hence the $1.2m or $1.6m of newly freed cap space.

I probably wouldn't look at it that way. Our TPP structure would have already factored in a reduced salary for Swan in 2017 because this was the final season of his contract.

With veterans and reduced earnings his retirement has probably saved us in the vicinity of $500k. Nothing to sneeze at, but with a combined loss of Cloke's wage we could be looking at an unexpected $1 million salary cap windfall compared to how our pay structure would have looked 6 months ago.

A portion of that will be eaten up by players we sign late because we can offer them a little extra, but all things being equal it's highly likely we'll enter 2017 at the 95% floor. In theory if we don't lose any players post 2017 (making it easier again) that would enable us to attract a $1 million per season player with ease for 2018.

 

[TW Sherrin]

You have to pay at least 95% of your cap. AFL rules.

yeah its 95% but the 5% you can carry over and pay 105% the following year.

 

[JustInsideFifty]

I think the rumor about Rewoildt it crap but if it was true he would be the perfect player for us. He is a smart forward so he would work very well with Moore, Elliott and Faz.

No way in the world would witts and cloke get it done. I would trade witts, cloke and next years first rounder with a return of a later pick(2nd or 3rd round from the tigers) to bring him in. I would then look at trading Langdon, Frost and Williams. Not because I don't think they can play but I think we have more talented young players who will keep these guys out of the best 22 and I think we could pick up a few 2nd and third rounders. I would then use a combo of these picks and players to get a late first rounder in this draft due to the rule of having atleast 2 first rounders over a 4 year period.

Im confident that we have a future backline but we desperately need to find someone who can support Moore.

As I said I highly doubt Jack is going anywhere but if he is we should move heaven and earth to get him.

I agree J Riewoldt should be a high priority if Cloke is to go and the rumours of Jack wanting out are true...

Maybe something like:
Richmond get Prestia, our 2nd this year and next
Suns get Witts, B Ellis
We get Jack...

We definitely need more Tassie in the team!

 

[Hagla]

yeah its 95% but the 5% you can carry over and pay 105% the following year.

Which we will do even if we don't land a big fish. We'd just front load contracts to ensure we pay 105% next year in that case. The reason being that you can only carry the 5% over for one year. Therefore front loading contracts to ensure we recover that cap space will free up even more next year.

 

[TW Sherrin]

I agree J Riewoldt should be a high priority if Cloke is to go and the rumours of Jack wanting out are true...

Maybe something like:
Richmond get Prestia, our 2nd this year and next
Suns get Witts, B Ellis
We get Jack...

We definitely need more Tassie in the team!

I'd rather give the suns witts and whatever else they want for wright.

 

[well left]

I agree J Riewoldt should be a high priority if Cloke is to go and the rumours of Jack wanting out are true...

Maybe something like:
Richmond get Prestia, our 2nd this year and next
Suns get Witts, B Ellis
We get Jack...

We definitely need more Tassie in the team!

Where are the rumours of Riewoldt wanting out coming from?

 

[frizzle]

yeah its 95% but the 5% you can carry over and pay 105% the following year.

Correct.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Where are the rumours of Riewoldt wanting out coming from?

its BS.

started by Frawley saying he wasn't having a crack. BT then said in Sunday he might be tradeable. aint going to happen. footy classified then said he isn't the most popular bloke inside Richmond.

I'm also starting to think cloke wont be leaving anyway.