Coach Fages and the coaching group

[Ceebee]

Just seems to be a bit of a pall over things the last few weeks.

We talk about the players looking tired , maybe he's tired.

It's probably been horrendous for him and I wonder sometimes how he's going.

He is certainly looking every bit his age.

Stress does that to you .

He has been absolutely wonderful bringing our club back into playing consistence finals .

Been very enjoyable .

 

[WhiteLionfever]

Thanks fagan for your efforts the last few years. Please move into a football head welfare role.

We desparately need new ideas including new assistants with fresh ideas including a refresh of ruck and forwards coach.

Geelong and sydney have v successful systems with players playing a role.

Maybe rayner doesnt know which role he is playing week in week out.

Also the forward set up.bomb it long does not work and cameron has lost a yard of speed so needs to be used differently.

The team also looks less desparate compared to prev years.

Also how bloody hard is it to find a vfl/sanfl ruckman 25yo who wants to play professionally? Glaring deficiency and makes our blokes come second from the get go

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Also how bloody hard is it to find a vfl/sanfl ruckman 25yo who wants to play professionally? Glaring deficiency and makes our blokes come second from the get go

Not hard at all and we don't even have to look that far. Brayden Crossley from Southport might be the best ruckman outside an AFL list. Unfortunately for him he got done for using cocaine before the AFL started calling that a hamstring injury.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Not hard at all and we don't even have to look that far. Brayden Crossley from Southport might be the best ruckman outside an AFL list. Unfortunately for him he got done for using cocaine before the AFL started calling that a hamstring injury.

Last time I saw him he looked like he weighed about 150kg too

Not sure how hard he’s been working to get back on an AFL list or if he’s just comfortable at state level playing with his mates

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Last time I saw him he looked like he weighed about 150kg too

Not sure how hard he’s been working to get back on an AFL list or if he’s just comfortable at state level playing with his mates

How long ago was that was that? I watched him play for the VFL in the state game against the SANFL recently and he looked quite fit.

 

[McIvor]

When I can I try to listen to SEN in VIC and the consensus backed aso by King is that the game was well and truly lost in the coaches box with Fagan being schooled by Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

. Sure players executed poorly but what I heard accords with what I witnessed first hand at the game.

Starting to come around to not drinking the group think Kool Aid at what a great coach Fages is. They always talk about structure and game plans just holding up regardless of which players you have and I think we’ve tried too much on talent which has covered up Fagan’s deficiencies. Sure people can say that changing coaches doesn’t guarantee anything. You’re right it doesn’t, but why be stubborn too and not see if someone else can get more out of this group because doing the same is doing a disservice to this window. And I don’t care what Hoyne says, we may be primed but I just don’t see it.

 

[Maboo]

When I can I try to listen to SEN in VIC and the consensus backed aso by King is that the game was well and truly lost in the coaches box with Fagan being schooled by Chris Scott. Sure players executed poorly but what I heard accords with what I witnessed first hand at the game.

Starting to come around to not drinking the group think Kool Aid at what a great coach Fages is. They always talk about structure and game plans just holding up regardless of which players you have and I think we’ve tried too much on talent which has covered up Fagan’s deficiencies. Sure people can say that changing coaches doesn’t guarantee anything. You’re right it doesn’t, but why be stubborn too and not see if someone else can get more out of this group because doing the same is doing a disservice to this window. And I don’t care what Hoyne says, we may be primed but I just don’t see it.

The consensus on SEN Vic changes from week to week so it’s probably not consensus at all, last week the consensus also backed by King was that it was a coaching masterclass by Fagan. It is probably the wrong media outlet to reinforce your point.

 

[WhiteLionfever]

When I can I try to listen to SEN in VIC and the consensus backed aso by King is that the game was well and truly lost in the coaches box with Fagan being schooled by Chris Scott. Sure players executed poorly but what I heard accords with what I witnessed first hand at the game.

Starting to come around to not drinking the group think Kool Aid at what a great coach Fages is. They always talk about structure and game plans just holding up regardless of which players you have and I think we’ve tried too much on talent which has covered up Fagan’s deficiencies. Sure people can say that changing coaches doesn’t guarantee anything. You’re right it doesn’t, but why be stubborn too and not see if someone else can get more out of this group because doing the same is doing a disservice to this window. And I don’t care what Hoyne says, we may be primed but I just don’t see it.

Prime example in the GF

Bobby Hill

Refusing to prep for a fast elusive FF and put someone on him capable to avoid the game blowing away.

Refusing to recruit another ruck ready to go in the leagues

Agree that talent has been masking this

 

[Nathan Barley]

Prime example in the GF

Bobby Hill

Refusing to prep for a fast elusive FF and put someone on him capable to avoid the game blowing away.

Refusing to recruit another ruck ready to go in the leagues

Agree that talent has been masking this

Refusing?

 

[WhiteLionfever]

Refusing?

No it only cost us the GF

 

[Squizz89]

The coaching group were rightly praised last week for how they set us up for the Demons game.

If they were stupid enough to have us play an over possessive game in the wet this week, then they rightly deserve criticism.

Personally, I still believe it was the players just going rogue though and completely losing their minds playing that way in those conditions.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Plenty of sports fans don't see the cliff before their team is going over it.

We fell just short of the summit. Issues arise inside the group, contracts need renewing for bedrock players, other teams look hungrier, faster, stronger and play better systems, and our stars get older. The decline becomes self-perpetuating.

A couple of ways to deal with this. Continue down the same road hoping we can turn it around next year on the back of a couple of kids while possibly losing a couple of our own players or get more aggressive with our trading/list turnover and bring in a new coach/coaches to inject some freshness into this team.

The way we are playing is not sustainable, having to go at 100 percent or lose at this time of the year. This wont be a temporary down season because of the age of our best players.

 

[McIvor]

Plenty of sports fans don't see the cliff before their team is going over it.

We fell just short of the summit. Issues arise inside the group, contracts need renewing for bedrock players, other teams look hungrier, faster, stronger and play better systems, and our stars get older. The decline becomes self-perpetuating.

A couple of ways to deal with this. Continue down the same road hoping we can turn it around next year on the back of a couple of kids while possibly losing a couple of our own players or get more aggressive with our trading/list turnover and bring in a new coach/coaches to inject some freshness into this team.

The way we are playing is not sustainable, having to go at 100 percent or lose at this time of the year. This wont be a temporary down season because of the age of our best players.

Agreed; I’m firmly of the belief regarding players and their contracts that some will sense that this club missed its chance and will start exploring options to move to clubs that can thinking this window at the Lions is done irrespective that some clubs are perennially up there like the Cats.

 

[StevoJenkins]

No it only cost us the GF

Many factors cost us the granny, not just Omac or Hill.

 

[Squizz89]

Agreed; I’m firmly of the belief regarding players and their contracts that some will sense that this club missed its chance and will start exploring options to move to clubs that can thinking this window at the Lions is done irrespective that some clubs are perennially up there like the Cats.

I'm not as pessimistic on us next year. We have to remember that all things being equal we will get Kiddy, Will, possibly Doedee back as almost like 'new recruits'. That's a fair bit of talent there to be added back into the group, and then we should be adding another top 3-5 talent in Levi as well, who probably comes into the team next year.

Admittedly, a few of our senior experienced guys have passed their peak and appear to be slowing down a little with injuries etc not helping their cause, but I think any team adding those types of players above to a roster we have, they should expect to compete that season.

I have written this year off as a realistic flag chance though, but don't want us to simply "waste it", as I think at worst it could end up being pivotal to how we fare next year when those guys are hopefully back on deck.

 

[buttermuffs]

Prime example in the GF

Bobby Hill

Refusing to prep for a fast elusive FF and put someone on him capable to avoid the game blowing away.

Refusing to recruit another ruck ready to go in the leagues

Agree that talent has been masking this

We have Fort? Also which ruck from the leagues is ready made to come in that we missed? We drafted Oscar when he was 23 and it still took him years of games to develop behind Martin. Matt Flynn? Tom Hickey? Ivan Soldo? Sam Naismith? All worse than Oscar and the best of them were being offered a top job with much more money than we should have reasonably been offering.

Also our top priority for small forwards would have understandably been Jaime Elliott, who has been a match winner for them in so many close games. Mihocek as well would have been considered more dangerous than Hill as well for understandable reasons. Bobby had an amazing game but let’s not revisit history and say that he was the number one forward threat.

I’m not sold on Fagan either but these are some terrible points.

 

[McIvor]

I'm not as pessimistic on us next year. We have to remember that all things being equal we will get Kiddy, Will, possibly Doedee back as almost like 'new recruits'. That's a fair bit of talent there to be added back into the group, and then we should be adding another top 3-5 talent in Levi as well, who probably comes into the team next year.

Admittedly, a few of our senior experienced guys have passed their peak and appear to be slowing down a little with injuries etc not helping their cause but I think any team adding those types of players above to a roster we have, then they should expect to compete that season.

I have written this year off as a realistic flag chance though, but don't want us to simply "waste it", as I think at worst it could end up being pivotal to how we fare next year when those guys are hopefully back on deck.

In regards to three ACL returnees. I’m not sure I’d put too much faith on them. I mean I honestly can’t recall a player coming off an ACL the follow season having a great season. They’re often rightly tentative and cautious and we have three of them. Hippy, Cam and Rich years ago were all pretty quiet in that following year and as for Doedee he’s coming off three. I mean seriously, if he plays more 20-30 games for the remainder of his career I’ll be stunned.

The likes of Skinner, Garner and Bartlett who all came off multiple ACLs could barely get anything going despite not being as prominent a player as Doedee but still expecting really anything of him as unfortunate as it is is pretty slim if you’re being realistic.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Which coach would people like to see come in when Fagan chooses to hang it up? Is Nigel Lappin still considered a good target? He's gone into development coaching since 2021 it seems.

 

[McIvor]

Which coach would people like to see come in when Fagan chooses to hang it up? Is Nigel Lappin still considered a good target? He's gone into development coaching since 2021 it seems.

That’s my only concern; whenever I’ve thought about it, only other senior coaches such as Kingsley or Chris Scott I’d want and let’s be honest, that ain’t happening.

I’d be really interested to see what names people throw up because I’m at a loss which is concerning if we were to move on from Fages. I can’t even think of a prominent senior assistant out there that screams pick me but as I said days ago, maybe Pies and Giants fans thought the same when they got McRae and Kingsley.

Perhaps someone like Nathan Buckley would be funny if he finally got his premiership coming back to Brisbane but I doubt he leaves Melbourne.

 

[martinson]

We have Fort? Also which ruck from the leagues is ready made to come in that we missed? We drafted Oscar when he was 23 and it still took him years of games to develop behind Martin. Matt Flynn? Tom Hickey? Ivan Soldo? Sam Naismith? All worse than Oscar and the best of them were being offered a top job with much more money than we should have reasonably been offering.

Also our top priority for small forwards would have understandably been Jaime Elliott, who has been a match winner for them in so many close games. Mihocek as well would have been considered more dangerous than Hill as well for understandable reasons. Bobby had an amazing game but let’s not revisit history and say that he was the number one forward threat.

I’m not sold on Fagan either but these are some terrible points.

I'm not an Itoldya sort of person but I did flag in here 2 or 3 times that the biggest threat to us in the GF was Hill , then De Goey.

It was not just me but off the back of some smartees who were sceptical of our set up matching Hill. That we needed to put a lot of effort into Hill.

It was certainly no surprise what happened once the game started up. We had the guys to match ok with Mihocek and Elliot . Hill was always the biggest issue imo. And we walked straight into it.

Obviously the way they were able to get it over the back to him precipitated it.

 

[Kickback Flip]

Which coach would people like to see come in when Fagan chooses to hang it up? Is Nigel Lappin still considered a good target? He's gone into development coaching since 2021 it seems.

I would like Justin Leppitsch as coach. He was the tactical mastermind behind Richmond's success and Collingwood's premiership last year. The only problem is, I don't think he would come back to Brisbane after getting the flick in 2016. I think there still might be some bad blood between Justin and Greg Swann.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I would like Justin Leppitsch as coach. He was the tactical mastermind behind Richmond's success and Collingwood's premiership last year. The only problem is, I don't think he would come back to Brisbane after getting the flick in 2016. I think there still might be some bad blood between Justin and Greg Swann.

Yeah Leppa probably has too many bad memories coaching here. I'd try someone else.

 

[Squizz89]

Hmmm watching the game back I couldn’t see our spare set up in our D50 like theirs was, so can only assume ours was up around the ball, which I guess encouraged the handball happy game plan to try and run it out using our spare. Certainly wasn’t the weather to be trying that.

Would’ve been better either manning their spare up forward (preferable option), or going an extra in defence like they did.

I guess whilst it’s unlikely the coaches directed them to play the over-possessive game, the way we set up could’ve “pushed” the players into playing that way.

I guess the coaches argument to not playing the spare in D50, would be our usual spare in Lester had his hands full with Cameron.

 

[Schache_off]

Amazing how a few losses can bring out the new coach chat. I can't see Fagan possibly finishing up with the lions until end of next season at the earliest if things continue to go poorly. Unless we go on to lose every game from here for this season then he would be a chance.

New coach that the board think is the right person isn't necessarily going to be the right coach for our playing group and could fail spectacularly.

 

[McIvor]

Amazing how a few losses can bring out the new coach chat. I can't see Fagan possibly finishing up with the lions until end of next season at the earliest if things continue to go poorly. Unless we go on to lose every game from here for this season then he would be a chance.

New coach that the board think is the right person isn't necessarily going to be the right coach for our playing group and could fail spectacularly.

So in other words, we’ll just sit on our hands and do nothing expecting what hasn’t worked for six years to somehow change all of a sudden next year with a squad that just keeps getting older and less likely?

Each to their own but I’d rather roll the dice on someone else with new ideas and being in a suite of new personnel opposed to roll with what we know doesn’t work and in actuality is looking more and more unlikely and further apart. Anyway, I trust Fages to do what’s right and if the season does peter out, I’d like to take him for his word that he’ll put the club before himself.

On top of that this window is fast closing and why not have one last roll of the dice with new ideas and challenge the players that no one’s position is safe.