Frost - upgrade or remain on rookie list?

[Hardas]

It's confirmed, well at least as much as you can confirm something by putting faith in an afl.com.au article anyway - Frost does not appear to have been upgraded to the primary list by the deadline of 2pm today and thus it appears that he will (technically speaking) be on the rookie list in 2015:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-31/who-your-club-gained-and-lost-list-lodgement-one
Given the above it's likely we'll promote him in round 1 as at replacement for Caff or Shazza (who will almost certainly be put on the LTI list) and even if they both return to action at some point in 2015 Frost can then be tagged as our "nominated" rookie for the second half of the season, so in reality he'll still see out the year on the primary list as "promoted" rookie anyway (and be paid accordingly) one way or another.

Still not ready to see Beams in that jumper...

 

[MyManLynch]

So, apologies if I have got this wrong, but in delisting Armstrong (with a promise to rookie him), we can use pick 48 on draft night, which adds a player to our senior list. We also have pick 85, which we are likely to use to upgrade Frosty, so we wont use that as a live draft pick...unless the scenario from last year repeats, where Marsh was still available at pick 70 something, and Hine jumped at the opportunity to snag him? Where would Frosty fit in that scenario? Stay on the rookie list and then play round 1 due to out LTI situation. Also, does Hine (and the other recuiters for that matter) literally stay in his seat until pick 85 comes up, so he can 'pass' or grab a slider? So many questions, I know.

Frosty cannot be upgraded to the senior list via the draft. We had to nominate his upgrade by Friday 2pm (yesterday). He can only be upgraded if we pass on 85 & go with 39 senior players & 5 rookies, then upgrade 1 of the 5 as a nominated rookie 2 weeks prior to season commences, or we upgrade him via LTI before season commences.
Hine may indeed wait to see what bubbles up during the draft, if nothing of interest, the he may pass on 85, add another rookie & then upgrade Frost.

 

[UpTheMags]

scharenberg LTI frost will play the full season. weird situation considering hes the most obvious senior list promotion of all time but what r u gonna do

 

[Green Eggs]

I'm just taking the view from Frosty at the moment;

Wouldn't it be a bit disheartening if the club don't elevate him? He has worked his guts out and performed, he deserved the reward regardless of what else we can muster up. If we do elevate him, worst case scenario is we miss out on maybe some untried kid, if we don't elevate him, worst case scenario would be him feeling under appreciated and looking elsewhere.

The kid is a jet, don't play games when it comes to peoples futures because he'll just leave!

 

[ClaytonM]

I'm just taking the view from Frosty at the moment;

Wouldn't it be a bit disheartening if the club don't elevate him? He has worked his guts out and performed, he deserved the reward regardless of what else we can muster up. If we do elevate him, worst case scenario is we miss out on maybe some untried kid, if we don't elevate him, worst case scenario would be him feeling under appreciated and looking elsewhere.

The kid is a jet, don't play games when it comes to peoples futures because he'll just leave!

Frost recently signed a two year contract. Nobody is playing with his future. You would have to think they have already told him he will be elevated for Sharon so he is effectively on the Senior list for next year. My only concern is if it has financial implications for the kid.

Don't think they will go for a kid. More likely a delisted free agent. Ben Newton from Port has been mentioned.

 

[cleomenes]

Frost is a senior standard player, and should be listed as such. The fact that he is not listed is an artifact of the AFL rules to micromanage what clubs do. If we had seniors and reserves as in the olden days, such stupid game playing would not be necessary.

 

[partypie]

Frost recently signed a two year contract. Nobody is playing with his future. You would have to think they have already told him he will be elevated for Sharon so he is effectively on the Senior list for next year. My only concern is if it has financial implications for the kid.

Don't think they will go for a kid. More likely a delisted free agent. Ben Newton from Port has been mentioned.

It wont - if he stays as a promoted / nominated rookie for the entire season and plays the full 22 games then from what I could gather he'll be paid somewhere between $150k and $180k, depending on which clause in the rookie wage schedule applies to his situation. You'd have to think the contract would also be back-ended for the 2016 season given that there is a cap on what we can pay him in 2015.

 

[Anzacday]

Wouldn't it be a bit disheartening if the club don't elevate him?

With respect Eggs, the club would be in dialogue with Frosty and his manager about their intentions and the potential benefit to the club etc

 

[Crazy Tails]

I know that it appears that we missed the cut off to upgrade Frost to the main list the other day but I noticed something interesting on the Pies website this morning.

On the Playing list screens (seniors and rookies) the players we have traded/delisted/retired have now been removed (Beams/Maxwell/Ball/Armstrong/Yagmoor etc) from the main list. Corey Gault (who used to be on the main list page) has now been moved to back to be the only player listed on the rookie list. Jack Frost has been left on the main list. Am I reading too much into this or do we think that it's a pretty good indication that we wont use pick 85 and will go in with 39 and 5 which will allow Frost to be our nominated rookie from Round 1.

Probably just the conspiracy theorist in me but thought that this observation was interesting to say the least.

 

[MyManLynch]

I know that it appears that we missed the cut off to upgrade Frost to the main list the other day but I noticed something interesting on the Pies website this morning.

On the Playing list screens (seniors and rookies) the players we have traded/delisted/retired have now been removed (Beams/Maxwell/Ball/Armstrong/Yagmoor etc) from the main list. Corey Gault (who used to be on the main list page) has now been moved to back to be the only player listed on the rookie list. Jack Frost has been left on the main list. Am I reading too much into this or do we think that it's a pretty good indication that we wont use pick 85 and will go in with 39 and 5 which will allow Frost to be our nominated rookie from Round 1.

Probably just the conspiracy theorist in me but thought that this observation was interesting to say the least.

I think you are spot on. He definitely will be on our senior list prior to season kick off.
Whether it be via nominated rookie or via LTI upgrade.
Hence, no point transferring him back to the website rookie list then back again to the senior list...so they leave him where he is.
Appears as though everyone within the club has been informed.

 

[SugarCoat]

Ask yourself this.
They traded Pick 67 to Brisbane in the Beams trade.
Would they have traded that pick if they were going to use it?
So why would they be using Pick 85?

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Hine showed his hand last year with picking Langdon and Marsh late when he didn't originally think they would be there. If there is someone he rates still there at 85, Hine will call his name.

However as SugarCoat says, i am not sure why we traded our pick 67.

 

[SugarCoat]

When Frost was elevated to the senior list does he stay or come off it?

 

[MyManLynch]

When Frost was elevated to the senior list does he stay or come off it?

He officially goes back to the rookie list.
The LTI upgrades are not permanent.
Only method of permanent upgrade is via the draft.

 

[sr36]

However as SugarCoat says, i am not sure why we traded our pick 67.

1. Due to clubs passing, taking father/sons or upgrading rookies, there will be very few live picks between 67 and 85. It really isn't a factor worth thinking about

2. There may be someone we like that other clubs are only considering as a rookie.

 

[Dylz48]

Frost recently signed a two year contract. Nobody is playing with his future. You would have to think they have already told him he will be elevated for Sharon so he is effectively on the Senior list for next year. My only concern is if it has financial implications for the kid.

Don't think they will go for a kid. More likely a delisted free agent. Ben Newton from Port has been mentioned.

Pretty sure assuming he gets elevated there is no difference financially for him then if he were a third round draft pick.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Pretty sure assuming he gets elevated there is no difference financially for him then if he were a third round draft pick.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but if Collingwood has sat down with Frost and his management and signed a 2 year deal, I'm sure his immediate future has been mapped for him. He's shown enough for me to be confident he isn't going anywhere for a while and I'm sure the Club and Frost understand where he'll be next season in terms of playing senior football.

He'll be there round # 1 all but injury, although, will we need any KPD against Brisbane?

 

[partypie]

although, will we need any KPD against Brisbane?

If it goes anything like the last time the two teams met then we'll need all of them.

Let's hope we put in a better showing in round 1 - a win would be a huge morale boost for the club after a shaky end to 2014 on a number of fronts, just as much as a loss would set us right on the back foot from the get-go morale-wise (and if there's one thing we were lacking in spades in the second half of the 2014 season it was morale / confidence).

 

[NT.Thunder]

If it goes anything like the last time the two teams met then we'll need all of them.

Let's hope we put in a better showing in round 1 - a win would be a huge morale boost for the club after a shaky end to 2014 on a number of fronts, just as much as a loss would set us right on the back foot from the get-go morale-wise (and if there's one thing we were lacking in spades in the second half of the 2014 season it was morale / confidence).

Was that the game Pendlebury withdrew due to quad injury in the warm up, Elliot was out due hamstring, Reid was subbed out in the opening minutes, Cloke off in second quarter and didnt play again that night and Beams off in 3rd quarter for the night.......I still can't for the life of me understand how we let that game slip! lol

 

[KJpie]

Was that the game Pendlebury withdrew due to quad injury in the warm up, Elliot was out due hamstring, Reid was subbed out in the opening minutes, Cloke off in second quarter and didnt play again that night and Beams off in 3rd quarter for the night.......I still can't for the life of me understand how we let that game slip! lol

Not to mention best 22 players unavailable for selection.

 

[MyManLynch]

Was that the game Pendlebury withdrew due to quad injury in the warm up, Elliot was out due hamstring, Reid was subbed out in the opening minutes, Cloke off in second quarter and didnt play again that night and Beams off in 3rd quarter for the night.......I still can't for the life of me understand how we let that game slip! lol

That's all completely irrelevant according to Pearce Hanley. They would have won anyway...with 3 legs in the air.

 

[KJpie]

3 legs in the air.

More drumsticks to go around.

 

[DNine]

History repeats itself. I remember a lot of supporters used to bag Presti for years, saying he is not good enough, he is only good in straight lines. When he got injured, people started to understand how much he meant to us.

I see all these supporters saying how Keeffe is no good, how Frost can stay on the Rookie List, and how he is a flawed player, and I read and think, do these people know ANYTHING about footy. I said it when they where all saying it about Presti and here we are again.

Let me just say what I think, Frost and Keeffe are both VERY VERY good key defenders. They both have went past Brown this year, and they have bright futures at the Club. Some supporters watch Keeffe or Frost be beaten in a one on one contest, and get frustrated that it happened. Key defenders don't win week in week out, and they do have periods where they get beaten in periods of games. After all, they are playing against some of the best players in the game. Even the best Key Defenders do it. Presti used to do it. But when he was injured, and we looked back, all of a sudden he was important. The one on one losses were seen as temporary, and we realised it was hard to beat the consistency of the man, even though it was questioned while he was playing. It was only the last couple of years he was truly appreciated.

I remember Mal Michael, getting flogged every week, and we thought he had nothing. We traded him, and he made us pay. Keeffe and Frost are worth their weight in gold, and they will continue to improve. They will continue to prove supporters who doubted them wrong. These supporters will just forget what they used to say. Supporters that bag out players early, don't only have this fact as a downfall, they have selective memory loss too.

They are the same supporters that look back on Anthony Rocca glowingly, forgetting that they bagged him for years. It is true what they say, you don't know what you got, until it is gone.

 

[Magpie Girl]

Was that the game Pendlebury withdrew due to quad injury in the warm up, Elliot was out due hamstring, Reid was subbed out in the opening minutes, Cloke off in second quarter and didnt play again that night and Beams off in 3rd quarter for the night.......I still can't for the life of me understand how we let that game slip! lol

Was that also the game when someone played twice in one day?

 

[NT.Thunder]

Was that also the game when someone played twice in one day?

Yep, BBB favorite Mr Armstrong played 2 games of football - You'd think with that much footy under his belt he'd be a natural! But big effort none the less and was by far not our worst.