Jars says Burton on Brown

[Macca19]

Secondly, if you think he took '****loads' of contested grabs as a forward, you either don't know what a contested grab is or you made up Chad Cornes plays in your head.

Chads 2 years as a focal point in the forward line:

2002
Marks: 5th - 144
Contested Marks: 7th - 39

2003
Marks: 6th - 152
Contested Marks: 2nd - 55

And last year he was 3rd in Contested marks with 48. Dunno but three years in a row in the top 10 contested marks in the league - the last two being in the top 3 says to me that hes a fairly reasonable contested mark.

But yes, go on about your myth that Cornes has minimal contested marking ability and your myth that Perrie towelled him up (6 marks and 1 goal...wow what a pasting .)

He was moved because he was slack in the forward lines, didnt kick enough goals, his accuracy was terrible and our defence was stale, boring and lacked rebound and pace.

outback jack - Tredrea and Cornes arent good contested marks?? Your idea of a contested mark seems to ONLY be Pack marking. In that case

a) Considering Jonathon Brown is basically the only player in the league that semi regularly takes pack marks in the forward line, does that mean he is the only good contested mark in the AFL.

b) Who are all these other key position players that are far far better than Tredrea and Cornes at marking?

And funnily enough, Tredreas 3 best games this year where hes been BOG have been against opposition that you said he was hopeless against, cant outbody, cant outmark and always gets thrashed on - Michael/Leppitsch, Scarlett/Harley and Leigh Brown.

 

[kirky]

Ok fellas,

Chad Cornes led the Power in contested grabs last season with 45. Judging by the fact that he has consistently taken 170-180 marks for the last 3 seasons, this means he would have approximately 45 contested marks a season too (i couldnt find a site that actually had contested grabs stats, this is an estimation, done by averaging).So there goes your assumptions that he cannot take contested marks........

So what you're saying is that your making things up!

Credibility - Nil! Come back when you can back it up with statistics and not mythical averaging ideas.

Macca19 has come out with the stats and I will accept those.

What job do you have, working for the Treasury Department!!!

 

[just maybe]

Ok fellas,

You guys are centering your argument about the fact that Chad Cornes does not take contested grabs.

Funny, once again you change you angle of attack when being shown up. I NEVER said he does not take contested grabs, you idiot.

In fact, you completely destroyed your own argument when stating that Cornes took a Port-leading 45 contested marks last year.

That's not even 2 a game. Now explain to me, if he is the highest contested marker at Port, how this equates to '4 or 5' contested grabs a game?

You've dug yourself a hole and jumped right into it. I'm sorry mate, but you clearly haven't lived up to your name, you don't watch enough football and don't understand what a contested grab is. Before coming in and mouthing off at me like a spoilt brat, do your homework and get your facts right.

Chad is a great mark, a reasonable contested mark, but he is not a great one, if he was he would be played as a forward. It is is easier to fix someone's kicking than teach them contested marking. He never took many contested marks as a forward, and taking a mark out on a wing because you can reach over a midfielder out there may be technically contested but is not damaging. He was not effective as a forward and was sent back, where he is not effective as a one-on-one defender but is supremely effective as a loose man or 'quarterback' style player.

 

[The Knowledge]

My argument was that Chad Cornes is one of the best contested markers, as per my first post on this thread. And the stats provided Macca19 prove so. I couldnt find those stats, maybe i didnt have the time to look for them but there presence on this board now proves who is right about Chad being one of the best CONTESTED markers in the game. I made my assumptions by watching the game, and making observations, something your obviously not good at if you believe in what you were arguing about.
YOUR WRONG mate, face it. Ive watched and played more footy than you have. Your a fat lad who sits on his ass and doesnt know ******** about footy.

I am a fan of the Adelaide Crows, however I am a fan of football too, i love wathing good footy, and this is why I can appreciate some of the powers players.

 

[The Knowledge]

Chads 2 years as a focal point in the forward line:

2002
Marks: 5th - 144
Contested Marks: 7th - 39

2003
Marks: 6th - 152
Contested Marks: 2nd - 55

And last year he was 3rd in Contested marks with 48. Dunno but three years in a row in the top 10 contested marks in the league - the last two being in the top 3 says to me that hes a fairly reasonable contested mark.

But yes, go on about your myth that Cornes has minimal contested marking ability and your myth that Perrie towelled him up (6 marks and 1 goal...wow what a pasting .)

He was moved because he was slack in the forward lines, didnt kick enough goals, his accuracy was terrible and our defence was stale, boring and lacked rebound and pace.

outback jack - Tredrea and Cornes arent good contested marks?? Your idea of a contested mark seems to ONLY be Pack marking. In that case

a) Considering Jonathon Brown is basically the only player in the league that semi regularly takes pack marks in the forward line, does that mean he is the only good contested mark in the AFL.

b) Who are all these other key position players that are far far better than Tredrea and Cornes at marking?

And funnily enough, Tredreas 3 best games this year where hes been BOG have been against opposition that you said he was hopeless against, cant outbody, cant outmark and always gets thrashed on - Michael/Leppitsch, Scarlett/Harley and Leigh Brown.

Thats gold billy!!!
thanks, those stats just proved what i was trying to say the whole way along!!!

 

[just maybe]

Fat lad? Hahaha, your 'knowledge' is slipping away fast mate, I don't really see how a 190cm, 78kg frame is every going to be 'fat'. I'm probably fitter than you'll ever be, buster.

Funny, backed away from the 'forwards average 4 or 5 contested grabs a game' argument have we?

Not answering the 'contested grabs over midfielders on the wing aren't damaging' point?

No doubt he gets a contested mark every time he comes in third man up to a one-on-one contest and plucks the ball, as is the luck of a loose man in defense.

Sorry pal, but yelling YOU'RE WRONG at me doesn't make you right. So Chad averaged 2 contested mark a game for the last few seasons as a forward, and still didn't kick more than 29 goals as a forward? Suggests his contested marks weren't taken in important places, doesn't it?

Keep trying, kiddo. You'll get there eventually. You just won't win on this point...

 

[The Knowledge]

Fat lad? Hahaha, your 'knowledge' is slipping away fast mate, I don't really see how a 190cm, 78kg frame is every going to be 'fat'. I'm probably fitter than you'll ever be, buster.

Funny, backed away from the 'forwards average 4 or 5 contested grabs a game' argument have we?

Not answering the 'contested grabs over midfielders on the wing aren't damaging' point?

No doubt he gets a contested mark every time he comes in third man up to a one-on-one contest and plucks the ball, as is the luck of a loose man in defense.

Sorry pal, but yelling YOU'RE WRONG at me doesn't make you right. So Chad averaged 2 contested mark a game for the last few seasons as a forward, and still didn't kick more than 29 goals as a forward? Suggests his contested marks weren't taken in important places, doesn't it?

Keep trying, kiddo. You'll get there eventually. You just won't win on this point...

Eh im 191cms and 91 kilos, and your probably fatter than me....
and theres no chance your fitter than me....i can assure you

Why do I have to shy away from the 4-5 contested marks per game comment, that was just a fact in the argument, I was wrong about that fact, but right about the argument....which was just in case you forgot...that Chad Cornes is one of the best contested marks in the comp.

He kicked 29 goals 30 behinds, thats inaccuracy, not a lack of chances....he got moved cause he cant kick at goals....

 

[tribey]

Lads, let's save the personal stuff for the Maury Povich follow-up eh?

 

[just maybe]

Eh im 191cms and 91 kilos, and your probably fatter than me....
and theres no chance your fitter than me....i can assure you

Why do I have to shy away from the 4-5 contested marks per game comment, that was just a fact in the argument, I was wrong about that fact, but right about the argument....which was just in case you forgot...that Chad Cornes is one of the best contested marks in the comp.

He kicked 29 goals 30 behinds, thats inaccuracy, not a lack of chances....he got moved cause he cant kick at goals....

Unless you play professional sport, which I seriously doubt, there in no way I'm fatter than you. And I am quite sure I'm fitter than you. You're a full-forward you said? FAT chance you're fitter than me.

Your whole argument is a failure, give up and go talk false praise with those on the Port board.

Thanks for trying, kiddo. Still shying away from the essential flaws of your argument and trying to use the statement of your argument as proof of your argument...if you ever complete high school you'll learn you can't argue like that.

 

[The Knowledge]

Unless you play professional sport, which I seriously doubt, there in no way I'm fatter than you. And I am quite sure I'm fitter than you. You're a full-forward you said? FAT chance you're fitter than me.

Your whole argument is a failure, give up and go talk false praise with those on the Port board.

Thanks for trying, kiddo. Still shying away from the essential flaws of your argument and trying to use the statement of your argument as proof of your argument...if you ever complete high school you'll learn you can't argue like that.

Ive been out of the game since last season with 2 medial ligament strains and and ACL injury, and ive only got a body fat of 8% now, so if i was playing itd be around 6-6 1/2%, id be highly suprised at your size that youd have less body fat than that. You dont have to run all da to have a low body fat, eg. Midfield, theres such a thing as dieting too, plus I can play in the midfield anyway, its not hard, its just i get played up front.

What position do you play?if at all?

Can you please tell me why my argument was a failure, I proved you wrong, with a little help from that other guy, just hack it mate, and stop putting other people down who have a different opinion too you, then ill stop arguing.

 

[just maybe]

I don't play footy, I play basketball. I never played at school because I didn't start following footy till about Year 8, by which time I was already rowing because of my height and build. When you're training 9 times a week for rowing, there's not much time to play football. Without a serious football background behind me, I chose to play basketball after school rather than football, as I didn't think my skills would be up to it. But that's largely irrelevant. Fact is, I am very skinny, in fact while I was overseas recently I lost a lot of weight and became extremely fit, I am only now working on building up my upper body again. So I have no doubt I have lower body fat and higher fitness than you, especially since you ain't playing.

And you didn't prove me wrong at all, you showed some stats, that don't tell everything - like the fact that taking a mark out on the wing over a midfielder is a contested mark, but is pretty useless to your team, if you're a 'great' contested mark you should be staying in the forward line and helping your team score. Of course it's easy for you to look at the raw stats and ignore how Chad has played, but poor and lazy arguers tend to do that sort of thing.

Try again, kiddo. In the meantime, I suggest you join your brethren here: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=15&f=28

 

[The Knowledge]

I thought you were smart mate, just because your skinney doesnt mean you have a low body fat. Do you even realise how low 8% is? to be a body model in a mag your expected to have less than 10%, and the average afl player would probably be between 10-15%.

Also Chad Cornes took heaps of contested marks on half backs in body on body contests, you dont know what your talking about, saying he just took them over small midfielders, your an absolute moron.

 

[just maybe]

Keep trying to change my argument to suit yourself, The Knowledge. It's just a sign of a bad arguer.

Keep trying kiddo. Again: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=15&f=28

 

[- PC -]

Dunno that its a move I'd like to see if I was a Crows fan, but then again its worth a try. Depends how much you value your finals chances for this year.

Just caught this.

This will be our biggest argument on here between Crows supporters. Do we want player development at the expense of ladder position , or do we want ladder position at the expense of player development. Will playing Burton on Brown develop anything for Burton? Or is it about allowing Rutten/Mcgregor to go forward for THEIR development, and accepting that such a move can cause a loss.

$64,000 question

 

[Tim the Toolman]

Doesn't matter who you play on him as the ball won't be getting down that far anyway!

 

[beartoo]

Hope you're right, Tim.
I reckon there's less contested grabs taken in the forward line these days because of the flooding. Hard to take a grab when there's 32 other players leaping for the ball. I haven't checked the stats or done any kind of historical survey, it's a gut feeling, so shoot me down if I'm wrong.
4 or 5 contested grabs a game? I don't think any forwad now playing including J. Brown has that average.
Oh, yeah, I would have agreed about Tredders taking very few contested grabs up till a couple of weeks ago. I think he's put his body on the line in the packs more in recent weeks than ever before. Again, I have no stats to back that up, but then, it's mostly about perception, ain't it?

 

[Macca19]

Oh, yeah, I would have agreed about Tredders taking very few contested grabs up till a couple of weeks ago. I think he's put his body on the line in the packs more in recent weeks than ever before. Again, I have no stats to back that up, but then, it's mostly about perception, ain't it?

Tredrea is 3rd with 16 behind Pavlich on 18 and Richardson leading with 25.

 

[just maybe]

That's barely 2 a game...nothing amazing about that.

 

[The Knowledge]

That's barely 2 a game...nothing amazing about that.

Shutup, just because i had a stab at 4-5 a game as an average, doesnt mean that I was arguing about that. I just said that Chad Cornes is one of the best in the game which he is......you know that now, and your jut clutching at straws.....

Can we start a new thread now!

 

[just maybe]

You haven't shown me anything, and he isn't. There's a difference between a great mark and a great contested mark.

 

[just maybe]

Although let me qualify it depends on your sample range as to whether he's done of the best. I'd say he's outside the top 10.

 

[- PC -]

Can we start a new thread now!

Certainly...on the Port Board please

 

[Crow-mosone]

Certainly...on the Port Board please

 

[Hasus]

I see Basset getting Brown