For you two in SA especially, how do you rate Toumpas, Menzel, Mayes and Kennedy, compared to each other, if taken purely on their footy ability and performances, not any injury or off-field stuff?
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Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2012 Mock Draft
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On ability and performance without injury at all:
Menzel
Mayes/Toumpas very even, perhaps Mayes just shades him.
Kennedy
Kennedy for mine whilst a talented footballer is not quite in the same class as the 3 above him, and does not have that absolute AFL package material that they have. He will make a solid AFL player however but just not elite.
Menzel
Mayes/Toumpas very even, perhaps Mayes just shades him.
Kennedy
Kennedy for mine whilst a talented footballer is not quite in the same class as the 3 above him, and does not have that absolute AFL package material that they have. He will make a solid AFL player however but just not elite.
Chris25
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I'd probably have Toumpas just ahead of Mayes, if it's based on what they've shown so far. Long term, it should be pretty even although Toumpas should have an earlier impact. But yeah, Menzel and Kennedy would be at #1 and #4 respectively.
Yer if based on what already shown then Toumpas would shade Mayes. He has played some very good SANFL footy although Mayes has been a more consistent performer at a slightly lower level but Toumpas has had injury and no doubt if he didn't he'd prob be tearing it up every week.
On future ability thrown in though I think Mayes just shades him (for mine anyways) due to his versatility. He is quite the package from overhead marking, to kicking, to clean hands, to all round smarts and awareness plus scoreboard impact.
However having said that, I thought some of Mayes's kicking was horrible in the SANFL finals this year. Very unlike him so possibly the pressure got to him, I am unsure. Though at other times he made every other player on the ground look many a class below him.
Knightmare
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Menzel is an excellent talent and I can imagine many within the footballing community will have varied views of LARS and how Menzel will go. Will be interesting to see where he features on draft day. No.8 is probably where most would have him, or certainly many of the SA recruiters I can imagine who get to see him most weeks.
For me the concern along with LARS is his injury combined with his brothers injury history with those knees and I just can't help feel concerned.
I can understand that train of thought with your rankings and not doing phantom drafts.
I try to do a bit of both. Have my own opinion of where I would take players (power rankings) but at the same time provide a fairly representative phantom draft of where I expect players to land on draft day taking out my personal views of where I would select players to give fans a feel for who their clubs might be looking at and in which general ranges.
Forgetting potential for injury Toumpas is still the most talented. Can really put his stamp on games more than the other SA boys you mention with the will he can impose on a contest.
Menzel and Mayes I'd have pretty close together but I'd say Menzel is the better talent and has done more both through the midfield and up forward. Mayes is the quicker of the two and just an incredible finisher around goal but Menzel probably has the better rounded game of the two and does more things well and is more productive at this point in time. But with the knees questionable while Menzel is a slightly better talent v Mayes I'd have to select Mayes.
Kennedy I don't rate far behind and he is very much in that conversation with Menzel/Mayes early. Last year he was clearly ahead of Menzel and Mayes in my mind but his footballing growth has been more limited this year and the others have just about caught up to him and with more height and more development demonstrated this year you'd back in Menzel/Mayes first.
Cheers all, much appreciated. 
When you add Grundy to all that it's certainly a great year for SA.
When you add Grundy to all that it's certainly a great year for SA.
Hi Knightmare
Was interested in your thoughts on a kid named Josh Simpson
Had a look on YouTube at a highlights package after a poster on the Hawk board bought his name up, looked real good but I hadn't heard of him before that. I was wondering if you had any info on him as from his footage he looked terrific, however seeing as I hadn't heard much before that , is there any doubts about other aspects to him that may be a turn off to some clubs
To me he looked poised, quick and his kicking was spot on , either side
Thanks Knightmare
Was interested in your thoughts on a kid named Josh Simpson
Had a look on YouTube at a highlights package after a poster on the Hawk board bought his name up, looked real good but I hadn't heard of him before that. I was wondering if you had any info on him as from his footage he looked terrific, however seeing as I hadn't heard much before that , is there any doubts about other aspects to him that may be a turn off to some clubs
To me he looked poised, quick and his kicking was spot on , either side
Thanks Knightmare
There's a fair bit of discussion about him on this page here, for starters: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/young-talent-time-a-2012-mock-draft.956131/page-29
Thanks for that mate
dlanod
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Since I can't find the "search thread" option in the new theme, I was wondering what the deal with Irra was. Last year he was being talked about as a smokey for the mini draft (IIRC, fourth most likely after O'Meara, Kennedy and Crouch). Has he stagnated this year, or were people going off half-cocked last year?
_Benchwarmer_
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Is he good enough for an early second round pick?
Is he good enough for an early second round pick?
Knightmare
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Simpson has a heck of a highlights package doesn't he?
He was very highly rated coming into the season then probably hasn't lifted his game as expected this year disappointingly.
Has some impressive pace, duel sided and can get through traffic easily. Would have liked to have seen him increase his production or at least play some senior footy in WA but only played colts and was ok and had his highlights without dominating.
Looks like a late 1st - 2nd round prospect. I do have queries with much less improvement shown than I would have liked given his talents and would personally not draft him inside the 1st round but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on draft day.
The hype surrounding Irra was somewhat over the top last year and all along there were better performed players. Irra mostly came onto the radar because he played in the u18 champs last year and had a couple of impressive games mixed in with some less good ones which was enough to catch the eye.
Has some ability with his pace and footskills and on that basis some were rating him perhaps a little higher than he should have been rated.
Good talent but more a mid draft option and probably all along should have been considered more this anyway.
Not sure he goes early 2nd round on draft day - there are other notables probably ahead of him on most draft boards. There are others ahead of him but certainly 3rd round onwards must come into consideration given his strong performances throughout the year.
Godogs247
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Knightmare you have it very close see below
1.whitfield -gws
2.grundy-gws
3.o,rourke -gws
4.wines -Melb
5.toumpas -bull
6.mayes-bull
7.mccrae -port
8.plowman -bris
9.garner-rich
10.daniher-ess
I have been told that gws love o rourke and Melbourne need wines -garner has been interviewed 3 times by the tigers
1.whitfield -gws
2.grundy-gws
3.o,rourke -gws
4.wines -Melb
5.toumpas -bull
6.mayes-bull
7.mccrae -port
8.plowman -bris
9.garner-rich
10.daniher-ess
I have been told that gws love o rourke and Melbourne need wines -garner has been interviewed 3 times by the tigers
Knightmare
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Not a Toumpas fan?
There have been various interpretations and this is certainly a realistic outcome. Some have Grundy sliding. Some have Toumpas sliding. It will be interesting to see which way that top 5 go and GWS will largely determine how it works out.
I have heard GWS like O'Rourke/Wines/Plowman so it will be interesting to see whether they go with one of these 3 early as an alternative to Grundy/Toumpas.
Not sure I see the Dogs skipping on Plowman at 6, particularly with Lake now gone.
Interesting note on Garner and Richmond. They don't mind going slightly out of the box as they did with Conca who was in a similar boat where he was probably always top 20, but not by so many rated top 10 so it's not unrealistic they see something in Garner and do the same thing.
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I'm happy with it, Toumpas/Mayes + Hopefully Menzel at 21
the SA boys!!
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We are actually fine for KPD at the moment so unless we see Plowman playing somewhere else (apparently we might be looking at playing him mid or fwd) then I would pass on him for one of Mayes/Macrae (assuming we take O'Rourke at 5)
I'm pretty sure i've heard Francis Jackson say they didn't interview a player outside of draft camp because they didnt want seem interested. For mine the draft is a bluffing game as much as anything and i don't think you can read much into what recruiters say until a couple of days out from the draft.
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Any chance of those American guys getting picked up? I reckon they would be absolute freaks once they picked up basic skills.
swansfan51
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There are athletic freaks in the draft every year, you don't need to look at Americans. Have a look at Joel Wilkinson - smashed the draft combine, he just doesn't have the ability to read the game.
The American to look out for is Alex Starling.
Yeah I have also heard O'Rouke to go at 3. Once he did not have any issues with the hamstrings he was always going to push into the top 10 and now coming off a very good season he is a chance to go in the top 3. I was hoping he would be a slider this year but he is no chance to get to 14.
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If Toumpas did slide out of the top 3 you would think Melbourne would take him though, they would be crazy not too. Luckily for the bullies, Melbourne are crazy Besides Wines would be a great pickup for them and the Viney connection helps as well. I hope to god it ends up that way though!!!
Besides Wines would be a great pickup for them and the Viney connection helps as well. I hope to god it ends up that way though!!!
Knightmare
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Eric Wallace has been spoken about positively and looks a very strong chance.
Crowder could be a rookie chance and is the other who has really intrigued.
I don't have any of these nearly in the Naitanui freak category. It's just no contest. But they are very powerful athletes with impressive athleticism for their size but at the same time I don't see them having this type of impact which obviously is rare in the AFL.
I see these having more role playing potential if one of these can pick up the game to a reasonable level, but at their relatively advanced ages I'm not expecting too much.
Similar to the hunt, falou situation TBH. I reckon hunt has done pretty well.
andrew127127
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If u were Melbourne and had the choice out of wines or toumpas who would you go with ?
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