Lachie Henderson vs Jake Carlisle

[Slattery_20]

Henderson took 19 marks in his first year. Carlisle took 12 in his second game
FACT.
Obviously 4th year guy has played more footy than 2nd year, don't know it's all that rurprising Henderson is a couple more kiloes and has a slightly better tank.

I love Carlisle. I love how he throws himself at the ball and I love how often he comes down with it. At times I have to remind myself he's not even 20 yet.
I don't mind Henderson, he's competent. Carlisle can be spectacular.

Carlisle.

 

[entourage]

Marks for a backman can be a misleading stat with the amount of chipping around that happens down back these days, unless you can find a stat about how many of those marks were from opponents feet, that "12 marks in his second game" doesn't mean much.

 

[Kong]

Those 12 marks were as a forward.

 

[entourage]

Thanks for clearing that up, not a bad effort then

 

[mediumsizered]

Carlisle was good up forward, then good down back.*For starters Hurley beat Henderson in 4 contests in the 1st quarter, and Henderson beat Hurley (with a spoil) in 1.

Yep. A whole 10 disposals for the game made Carlisle good, both up forward & down back?. Given how much ball Carlton had inside our F50 (62 x I50) you would have expected Carlisle to get a bit more of the ball, particularly with the way we regularly bomb the ball into our F50.

To the poster who told us he would rate Hardingham, among others, ahead of Hendo, I'm sure Eddie Betts would love to see Hardingham as his opponent, compared to Hendo. In a finals contest, gimme goals from soft defensive efforts are greatly appreciated by small forwards.

 

[DapperDon]

Yep. A whole 10 disposals for the game made Carlisle good, both up forward & down back?. Given how much ball Carlton had inside our F50 (62 x I50) you would have expected Carlisle to get a bit more of the ball, particularly with the way we regularly bomb the ball into our F50.

To the poster who told us he would rate Hardingham, among others, ahead of Hendo, I'm sure Eddie Betts would love to see Hardingham as his opponent, compared to Hendo. In a finals contest, gimme goals from soft defensive efforts are greatly appreciated by small forwards.

Henderson was beaten by Hurley in the 1st, they moved him off him.

Carlisle didn't move down back until Pears got injured, he had 4 less disposals (4 handballs mind you) and took one less mark. Seeing as our forwards were boming it straight down your defenders throats all day surely Henderson would have had twice the disposals and marks? or perhaps, just perhaps, he just isn't good enough to read the play.

Also, Hardingham had a much better year than Henderson. Take of your glasses for a change, though no doubt your goldfish memory doesn't go back further than 2 days so I guess I shouldn't bother.

 

[mediumsizered]

Henderson was beaten by Hurley in the 1st, they moved him off him.

Carlisle didn't move down back until Pears got injured, he had 4 less disposals (4 handballs mind you) and took one less mark. Seeing as our forwards were boming it straight down your defenders throats all day surely Henderson would have had twice the disposals and marks? or perhaps, just perhaps, he just isn't good enough to read the play.

Also, Hardingham had a much better year than Henderson. Take of your glasses for a change, though no doubt your goldfish memory doesn't go back further than 2 days so I guess I shouldn't bother.

The personal insult. The refuge of he who has nothing. Carlton & Henderson 21.23.149 v Essendon & Carlisle/Hardingham 13.9.87. Or if you like, Carlton & Henderson 15 wins, 7 losses, 1 draw (so far) v Essendon & Carlisle/Hardingham 11 wins, 11 losses, 1 draw (final result). I know which numbers I prefer.

 

[Slattery_20]

Wow Henderson's done well to get 15 wins into his 14 games this year.

Henderson had a decent 2nd half of the year
Hardingham had a good start to the year but hasn't been as good since about rd 17 or 18.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The personal insult. The refuge of he who has nothing. Carlton & Henderson 21.23.149 v Essendon & Carlisle/Hardingham 13.9.87. Or if you like, Carlton & Henderson 15 wins, 7 losses, 1 draw (so far) v Essendon & Carlisle/Hardingham 11 wins, 12 losses, 1 draw (final result). I know which numbers I prefer.

What a pathetic attempt, so Collingwood have the best 22 players in the competition... Right

 

[Jesse Custer]

This is the same mod that prayed for an injury to Hurley before/during the final was it not? What a clown.

 

[jonoman89]

Henderson gave Hurley a bath after 1/4 time. To suggest otherwise is laughable. It wasn't just a lack of supply, Henderson was extremely good against him.

Henderson has been fantastic for us in defence. Carlisle hasn't shown enough to compare.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Henderson gave Hurley a bath after 1/4 time. To suggest otherwise is laughable. It wasn't just a lack of supply, Henderson was extremely good against him.

Henderson has been fantastic for us in defence. Carlisle hasn't shown enough to compare.

I believe Jamieson was on Hurley after 1/4 time. Yes he's been fantastic for you, but in the long term Carlisle will be better.

 

[jonoman89]

I believe Jamieson was on Hurley after 1/4 time. Yes he's been fantastic for you, but in the long term Carlisle will be better.

They alternated, as most team do now due to high rotations. Check out Ratten's Plays of the Day on the CFC website....you'll see quite a few nice things Henderson did on Hurley.

How will Carlisle be better in the long term? He's played only a few games and only shown glimpses. You can't make that statement just based on gut instinct.

Henderson has performed admirably, and beaten, some of the best forwards in the AFL. He's got more runs on the board.

Until Carlisle does similar he's just "potential".

 

[Jesse Custer]

They alternated, as most team do now due to high rotations. Check out Ratten's Plays of the Day on the CFC website....you'll see quite a few nice things Henderson did on Hurley.

How will Carlisle be better in the long term? He's played only a few games and only shown glimpses. You can't make that statement just based on gut instinct.

Henderson has performed admirably, and beaten, some of the best forwards in the AFL. He's got more runs on the board.

Until Carlisle does similar he's just "potential".

Because i've seen a fair bit of Carlisle and boy he's got the goods. Great hands, good kick, footy brain and good below the knees. Now its absurd to judge Carlisle on one game jonoman. Bad mistake. Considering he's shown all that at the tender age of 19 and Hendo is two years older and really hasn't cemented a spot in a side until now is enough for me. I think Hendo will be a solid defender, but Carlisle will be more than solid forward or back. Its just my opinion though.

 

[mediumsizered]

This is the same mod that prayed for an injury to Hurley before/during the final was it not? What a clown.

Sorry, which Mod prayed for an injury to Hurley? Now we resort to making things up. Once again, the refuge of he who has nothing.

 

[DapperDon]

The personal insult. The refuge of he who has nothing. Carlton & Henderson 21.23.149 v Essendon & Carlisle/Hardingham 13.9.87. Or if you like, Carlton & Henderson 15 wins, 7 losses, 1 draw (so far) v Essendon & Carlisle/Hardingham 11 wins, 11 losses, 1 draw (final result). I know which numbers I prefer.

No personal insults, just stating what I've come to learn from reading your posts over the years. The fact your basing your better year on Henderson being a better player than Carlisle speaks volumes on your ability to understand the game.

Alan Didak has been far superior to Judd this year, he is in da winnings team!!

 

[mediumsizered]

I believe Jamieson was on Hurley after 1/4 time. Yes he's been fantastic for you, but in the long term Carlisle will be better.

You see, that is just an opinion. With the way Henderson has adapted to his role in defence, I'm confident he will be better than Carlisle in the long term. See what I did there.

It was only 2 years ago that Essendon supporters were talking up the development of Jay Neagle, Darcy Daniher & Scott Gumbleton & telling us we had no players to compare with them. This is so similar to the way Richmond supporters have constantly talked up their young talls over the last 4 years.

 

[Jesse Custer]

You see, that is just an opinion.

Really well **** me, the definition of a forum is it not?

 

[DapperDon]

You see, that is just an opinion. With the way Henderson has adapted to his role in defence, I'm confident he will be better than Carlisle in the long term. See what I did there.

It was only 2 years ago that Essendon supporters were talking up the development of Jay Neagle, Darcy Daniher & Scott Gumbleton & telling us we had no players to compare with them. This is so similar to the way Richmond supporters have constantly talked up their young talls over the last 4 years.

I also recall a rather large thread comparing Lloyd to Fevola, but yeah, it's only those pesky other supporters that hype their own players.

 

[mediumsizered]

No personal insults, just stating what I've come to learn from reading your posts over the years. The fact your basing your better year on Henderson being a better player than Carlisle speaks volumes on your ability to understand the game.

Alan Didak has been far superior to Judd this year, he is in da winnings team!!

The difference being I didn't say that Henderson was clearly a better player than Carlisle (on exposed form Henderson has shown more than Carlisle), I was pointing out the foolhardiness of Essendon supporters who are arguing that Carlisle is/will be better than Henderson on the basis of nothing else but bias.

We even had an Essendon supporter state in a thread on the Carlton board that Carlisle would be a handful up forward in Sunday's game, despite a return of 4 goals from his 9 AFL games (now 5 goals from 10 AFL games).

At this stage there is nothing that clearly puts Carlisle ahead of Henderson, except wishful thinking on the part of Essendon supporters.

 

[Slattery_20]

How will Carlisle be better in the long term? He's played only a few games and only shown glimpses. You can't make that statement just based on gut instinct.

Henderson has performed admirably, and beaten, some of the best forwards in the AFL. He's got more runs on the board.

Until Carlisle does similar he's just "potential".

You can say that about any kid who's barely played vs any guy who's been around 2 years longer.


Some of the things Carlisle has done @ AFL level, as a pretty skinny 18 or 19yo, plus some seriously good form @ VFL level, have suggested he's got plenty to go on with.
The fact he leads an older player for marks, kicks, handballs, tackles, goals per game - despite being in a worse side, despite being thrown back & forward, despite being really, really skinny - also bodes well.

He is a good kid.
Of course the player who's had 2 more years to develop is more developed.

I dunno why there's such a hullaballoo.

 

[mediumsizered]

Really well **** me, the definition of a forum is it not?

But you behave as if it has to be right because it is your opinion. Certainly opinions are what forums are all about, but contradictory opinions are not deemed invalid, because they don't agree with your opinion.

 

[Monkey King]

Henderson was beaten by Hurley in the 1st, they moved him off him.

Not quite right. Henderson got to 8 contests in the first quarter and lost 3 of them to Hurley. Jammo came into it following Hurley's nice strong grab during the 1Q, but Hendo and he continued to alternate for the rest of the game, with Hendo winning a couple more contests against Hurley from that point. Was named in the Blues bests; had a decent game, no need to talk him down.

 

[mediumsizered]

Remarkble, same username. A liar and a scumbag.

Originally Posted by mediumsizered
Simple solution to minimizing Hurley's potential influence on a game. Stand on his injured foot (would be quite debilitating for someone who has a stress fracture in their foot).

Does that equal praying for an injury, or putting forward a suggestion as to how to minimise a player's influence by impacting a known injury (sort of like Kretiuk punching Lloyd's hand, or Brisbane players bumping Riewoldt's injured shoulder)? In fact, if Gibbs was selected to play in this weekend's game against the Eagles, you could guarantee that Woosha would instruct his players to test Gibbs' shoulder over & over again.

At no stage did I say that I hope Hurley suffers an injury.

 

[DapperDon]

The difference being I didn't say that Henderson was clearly a better player than Carlisle (on exposed form Henderson has shown more than Carlisle), I was pointing out the foolhardiness of Essendon supporters who are arguing that Carlisle is/will be better than Henderson on the basis of nothing else but bias.

We even had an Essendon supporter state in a thread on the Carlton board that Carlisle would be a handful up forward in Sunday's game, despite a return of 4 goals from his 9 AFL games (now 5 goals from 10 AFL games).

At this stage there is nothing that clearly puts Carlisle ahead of Henderson, except wishful thinking on the part of Essendon supporters.

Actually, if we were to compare them at the same age/games played Carlisle stands out. The fact we are even comparing a 10 gamer to a 50 gamer with 2 more years experience only speaks volumes about one of them.

I am happy to admit I am very confident Carlisle will be the better of the 2 over their careers. Feel to to call is bias, I don't really care. Henderson should be doing much more than he currently is, Carlisle is just about matching his output, with 10kg less body weight and 40 games less experience.