Opinion North Melbourne's best 22

[Twinkletoes]

Decent VFL squad...

B: Firitto – Tippett - McMahon
HB: Hine – Delaney - Warren
C: McKenzie – Dumont - Wright
HF: Garner - Brown - Harper,
F: Wood – Daw - Nahas,
R:Currie – Anthony - Jacobs,
Int: McGenniss – Wallace – Turner – Wilkins - Curran

How good would it be to be able to see THAT lineup play each week too?

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

nb4 "WE NEED OUR OWN VFL TEAM"

 

[GarnerSmash]

How good would it be to be able to see THAT lineup play each week too?

The missus would be devo.

 

[the big lebowski]

Long term i would want our three big forwards to be Daw, Black, Wood.

However we have all seen how far Maj has to go to be a consistent power forward (helping out in the ruck). In fact all three have not shown yet that they will make it 100% (Black being the most advanced and assured of a long term future).

Tarrant's stock would be very low at the moment, so i would not want to trade him.

I would certainly be wanting to draft or trade for another Key Position Player, be they forward or back. Preference would be forward as Grima has another year in him and Tippet looks decent.

Jeez, keeping Spud on for another year was a master stroke in list management.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Jeez, keeping Spud on for another year was a master stroke in list management.

Too true. He has been great. Yet to see the value of signing McMahon for two though.

 

[Kimbo]

Long term i would want our three big forwards to be Daw, Black, Wood.

Yep, they're goodies. Can they do anything, anytime?



The Majak Black Wood, or even The Black Forest?!

 

[Black2Blue]

The discussion about lacking KPPs both forward and back is strange. We have actually got just about the best depth in talls in the league but we have also got just about the worst list of injuries to talls in the league.

In defense, we have our topliners Scotty T & Lachie, and senior stalwarts Narni & Spud, backed up by 2 young guns in Delaney & Tippett, which make 6 KPDs of AFL quality. Yes, we have injuries to 3 of them, but Delaney and Narni are on their way back, so our depth has covered things more than adequately. We are not going to have 7 KPDs on our list in case 4 get injured. The only unfortunate thing I see with our tall defenders is that Ayden Kennedy didn't kick on, as he would have been getting plenty of game time this year. C'est la vie.

Likewise the doom and gloom over our key forwards is a bit extreme. We were just gloating over the off-season about how teams like Carlton, *, the Bullies, Lions, etc would love to have our KPF stocks. But if we look at it, we have our 2 star forwards out of form in Petrie and Black, injuries to 4 others in Tarrant, Daw, Brown, and Curran, and a rookie in Wood. We are in the midst of a dramatic change of game plan, which takes away the quick entries that our key forwards have been enjoying so much in previous years. Petrie, Black, and Daw haven't been awful, they just have been down on last year's performances, which may be form, but our defensive game clearly translates to fewer goals given up and fewer goals scored, so its far from a disaster. Some seem to be jumping the gun a bit to be writing off the career of Drew, giving up on the exciting potential of Black and an 11-gamer without a preseason, and tossing in the injury towel on Taz and Curran (sadly his future is clouded). Plenty of forwards come back from debilitating injuries (Petrie, Roughead, Kannedy, Taylor Walker, etc) and plenty of players regain form, so it's far from panic stations up forward in my book. Black and Tarrant will become the mainstays of our forward line for years with Daw the ideal permanent Petrie replacement as forward-ruck, whether it happens in 2015 or 2016. Ben Brown has a bit of the Casboult's about him, in that he will work hard and play his part, and Wood shifting between playing tall and small can define his own role. Curran is the wildcard, in that it could (sadly) be curtains or he becomes the natural footballer we have seen in him. And with Lachie and Tarrant as possible swingmen, we also have this card up our sleeve where need be.

I reckon time for a chill pill until we have Tarrant & Delaney fit and right to play, Wood playing a game or two, and Curran off the LTI and on the park.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

Who's saying it's panic stations? You're arguing against something that no one has said.

What would be panic stations is if we go two seasons without doing anything about it on the recruiting front and then all of a sudden we have nothing and think "oh well, we had some depth two years ago..."

 

[Phillyroo]

Who's saying it's panic stations? You're arguing against something that no one has said.

What would be panic stations is if we go two seasons without doing anything about it on the recruiting front and then all of a sudden we have nothing and think "oh well, we had some depth two years ago..."

I'm with you....
I love the upside of Daw, and the fact he can ruck...
Wrong thread but an embarrassment of riches in kpf..... Anyone smell a trade.

I would say that's the one hole in our list actually.

Drew has only a year after this left.
Tarrant is forever injured.
Daw has a long way to go.
Black should be a mainstay.
Wood is not a giant by any means.
Curran hasn't been able to get on the park.

So I make that as one stone cold certainty going into the future.

Edit: Benny Brown still a bit to go as well, but I have hopes.

You didn't say panic stations, but did suggest it was a hole...

 

[DEVO]

The missus would be devo.

The missus would be me!!!?!!!

Sorry, but I'm not that way inclined.


Anyway my best 22 would be

B McDonald Thompson Hansen
HB Mullet Grima Atley
C Gibson Dal Santo Wells
HF Harvey Tarrant Adams
F Thomas Petrie Black
R Goldstein Cunnington Swallow
I Greenwood Ziebell Bastinac MacMillan

 

[Lavy_Panther]

You didn't say panic stations, but did suggest it was a hole...

Ofcourse it's a hole that needs to be addressed in the future.

When you're talking about list management it's a view to the future, not what the current stocks are.

 

[Phillyroo]

Ofcourse it's a hole that needs to be addressed in the future.

When you're talking about list management it's a view to the future, not what the current stocks are.

Yep, but surely that's every position on the field... You were referring to our current kpf's in the above. I said embarrassment of riches, you emboldened that, and said it was in fact a hole.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

Yep, but surely that's every position on the field... You were referring to our current kpf's in the above. I said embarrassment of riches, you emboldened that, and said it was in fact a hole.

You said we could be looking at trading some key forwards away because we have an embarrassment of riches, when actually we should be doing the opposite, looking to acquire key position forwards in the future.

I don't know what you think 'embarrassment of riches' means, but if you do think it means what the natural and ordinary definition of it is you are severely overrating where our key position players are at.

Drew Petrie is contracted until the end of 2015. He will not play after that.
Robbie Tarrant has constantly battled serious injuries his whole career, and hasn't exactly put his name next to John Coleman whilst he's played.
Majak Daw is a long long away from being a full time, AFL standard player.
Ben Brown too has a long way to go and has no currency.
Tom Curran has suffered injury all through his time.
Mason Wood is yet to debut, but is hardly a hulk.
Black is nailed on, good footballer but hasn't dominated a season ever.

So in 2016 out of this list we'll have:

Black (nailed on)


And that's all that can be confirmed. The rest have (in some cases massive) question marks over them.

Now let's see if these players constitute riches:

Tarrant - which club would give up anything of quality for a player that has been chronically injured?
Daw - Clubs wouldn't exactly be throwing the 'farm' to get Maj in their line ups at the moment because they know he's a long way away.
Brown - No one would give up anything for him
Curran - See Tarrant
Wood - Player of substance

We do not have an embarrassment of riches. We have a series of players who right now in 2014, if they were fully fit, could be serviceable. In two years time they could either be good, or most probably, some of them will be retired or still crook.

Over the next two off seasons we need to bring in some key position forward talent.

 

[the big lebowski]

With Petrie on his last legs, and no proven Key Position Forward under him, i would say that should be a concern.

With 2 genuine Key Position Defenders (Thommo and Grima), one of which is on his last legs i would say that is a concern. Then you have Hansen (gun, but not a lock down defender for gun forwards), Spud (last legs and not genuine anyway), Tippet (played 5 or so games, looks good but jury still out), Delaney (hasn't proven a thing and always injured).

No way its panic stations but i would hope some thought is being given as to how these problems will be addressed in 2 years or when Petrie, Spud and Grima have hung up the boots.

 

[the big lebowski]

You said we could be looking at trading some key forwards away because we have an embarrassment of riches, when actually we should be doing the opposite, looking to acquire key position forwards in the future.

I don't know what you think 'embarrassment of riches' means, but if you do think it means what the natural and ordinary definition of it is you are severely overrating where our key position players are at.

Drew Petrie is contracted until the end of 2015. He will not play after that.
Robbie Tarrant has constantly battled serious injuries his whole career, and hasn't exactly put his name next to John Coleman whilst he's played.
Majak Daw is a long long away from being a full time, AFL standard player.
Ben Brown too has a long way to go and has no currency.
Tom Curran has suffered injury all through his time.
Mason Wood is yet to debut, but is hardly a hulk.
Black is nailed on, good footballer but hasn't dominated a season ever.

So in 2016 out of this list we'll have:

Black (nailed on)


And that's all that can be confirmed. The rest have (in some cases massive) question marks over them.

Now let's see if these players constitute riches:

Tarrant - which club would give up anything of quality for a player that has been chronically injured?
Daw - Clubs wouldn't exactly be throwing the 'farm' to get Maj in their line ups at the moment because they know he's a long way away.
Brown - No one would up anything for him
Curran - See Tarrant
Wood - Player of substance

We do not have an embarrassment of riches. We have a series of players who right now in 2014, if they were fully fit, could be serviceable. In two years time they could either be good, or most probably, some of them will be retired or still crook.

Over the next two off seasons we need to bring in some key position forward talent.

What he said.

 

[Phillyroo]

You said we could be looking at trading some key forwards away because we have an embarrassment of riches, when actually we should be doing the opposite, looking to acquire key position forwards in the future.

I don't know what you think 'embarrassment of riches' means, but if you do think it means what the natural and ordinary definition of it is you are severely overrating where our key position players are at.

Drew Petrie is contracted until the end of 2015. He will not play after that.
Robbie Tarrant has constantly battled serious injuries his whole career, and hasn't exactly put his name next to John Coleman whilst he's played.
Majak Daw is a long long away from being a full time, AFL standard player.
Ben Brown too has a long way to go and has no currency.
Tom Curran has suffered injury all through his time.
Mason Wood is yet to debut, but is hardly a hulk.
Black is nailed on, good footballer but hasn't dominated a season ever.

So in 2016 out of this list we'll have:

Black (nailed on)


And that's all that can be confirmed. The rest have (in some cases massive) question marks over them.

Now let's see if these players constitute riches:

Tarrant - which club would give up anything of quality for a player that has been chronically injured?
Daw - Clubs wouldn't exactly be throwing the 'farm' to get Maj in their line ups at the moment because they know he's a long way away.
Brown - No one would give up anything for him
Curran - See Tarrant
Wood - Player of substance

We do not have an embarrassment of riches. We have a series of players who right now in 2014, if they were fully fit, could be serviceable. In two years time they could either be good, or most probably, some of them will be retired or still crook.

Over the next two off seasons we need to bring in some key position forward talent.

I'm confused... Do you think it's an issue or not? You have argued for both sides in this thread.
I think it's a standard belief from most that three key forwards is the limit at any one time...
The combos post Petrie would be : Black, Daw, Wood or Black, Tarrant, Wood... Curran is a possible wildcard.

So the next issue is contracts. Would you be willing to pay all the above players "starter" money for one of them to languish in the two's?

Obviously every year we top up KP stocks through the draft and it will always be a focus, but my point is the following...

If Taz comes in to the side in the next few weeks and shows let's say Chris Dawes like form and quality, would a Brisbane, Carlton, Essendon, Freo be willing to make an above odds offer for him! If so is this something that we would consider?

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

Dunno why anyone contemplate it when we realistically don't have a ready-made replacement.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

I'm confused... Do you think it's an issue or not? You have argued for both sides in this thread.
I think it's a standard belief from most that three key forwards is the limit at any one time...
The combos post Petrie would be : Black, Daw, Wood or Black, Tarrant, Wood... Curran is a possible wildcard.

So the next issue is contracts. Would you be willing to pay all the above players "starter" money for one of them to languish in the two's?

Obviously every year we top up KP stocks through the draft and it will always be a focus, but my point is the following...

If Taz comes in to the side in the next few weeks and shows let's say Chris Dawes like form and quality, would a Brisbane, Carlton, Essendon, Freo be willing to make an above odds offer for him! If so is this something that we would consider?

Ok look you're having trouble understanding me so I will sum up in dot points:

• Our key position stocks on paper right now are fine. They will not be fine in two years time unless we attracted KPF talent in the upcoming off season or two.
• Not only has Robbie Tarrant never shown Chris Dawes like form and quality over a reasonable sample size, wishing him to show this form post serious injury is like saying Brent Harvey will be able to hold down the second ruck position because he registered a hit out on the weekend.
• Trading players like Tarrant away will not help our depth. It is illogical to think depth will be improved when you trade that depth away.
• Going forward, we have young quality, proven depth in the midfield and defence. We do not have the same in the forward line.

 

[Phillyroo]

Ok look you're having trouble understanding me so I will sum up in dot points:

• Our key position stocks on paper right now are fine. They will not be fine in two years time unless we attracted KPF talent in the upcoming off season or two.
• Not only has Robbie Tarrant never shown Chris Dawes like form and quality, wishing him to show this form post serious injury is like saying Brent Harvey will be able to hold down the second ruck position because he registered a hit out on the weekend.
• Trading players like Tarrant away will not help our depth. It is illogical to think depth will be improved when you trade that depth away.
• Going forward, we have young quality, proven depth in the midfield and defence. We do not have the same in the forward line.

Hahahaha yep mate, I understand you are just upset I caught you out, saying no one thought it was a problem, and anyone suggesting that it wasn't an issue was arguing with themself, and then say it is a problem. I will respond with your dots with dots...

• I agree that attracting KPF talent in the coming years should be a priority... In fact just mark that down as a priority for the rest of time.
• Hahahahahahahaha Chris Dawes is hardly a superstar, he was MUCH maligned at collingwood, and until 2 weeks ago Melb fans were freaking out they were ripped off in the trade. Taz has the size, and upside of Dawes. Don't make him into Wayne Carey to suit your argument.
• I get that trading depth will deplete depth..... But you do understand that the whole idea of a trade is that we get something back?? Ok good.
• I disagree.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

Yep, you got me...

 

[Phillyroo]

Yep, you got me...

Cheers mate, sorry for being so argumentative.... I'm like a dog with a bone sometimes. Worthy adversary, and looking forward to next time.

 

[Lavy_Panther]

Not sure if you know I'm being sarcastic or not.

 

[Phillyroo]

Not sure if you know I'm being sarcastic or not.

Yeah I did, just thought enough was enough..... Incidentally I did get you... Hahaha
Edit: also your come back was lacking depth, length, breadth, and an actual point.

 

[the big lebowski]

Cheers mate, sorry for being so argumentative.... I'm like a dog with a bone sometimes. Worthy adversary, and looking forward to next time.

I think the "problem" is that none of our KPF have shown they will cut it. Tarrant has shown the most, albeit IMO wont make. But he is certainly handy depth. And should Drew go down with an injury next year, we can slot in Tazz (assuming he is not injured), and still work with the structure we seem to like.

But in 2 years time, Drew retires, and we may literally be left with Black as the only quality key forward (who is not really even a key forward).

So we need to either draft or trade now, so that in 2 years time we have another option, is the current crop do not work out.

As you rightly pointed out, this should be how all list management is done. I, and it seems others, are starting to have our doubts that what we have on the shelf now, will cut it in the future.

 

[Phillyroo]

I think the "problem" is that none of our KPF have shown they will cut it. Tarrant has shown the most, albeit IMO wont make. But he is certainly handy depth. And should Drew go down with an injury next year, we can slot in Tazz (assuming he is not injured), and still work with the structure we seem to like.

But in 2 years time, Drew retires, and we may literally be left with Black as the only quality key forward (who is not really even a key forward).

So we need to either draft or trade now, so that in 2 years time we have another option, is the current crop do not work out.

As you rightly pointed out, this should be how all list management is done. I, and it seems others, are starting to have our doubts that what we have on the shelf now, will cut it in the future.

Yeah, I agree.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... If we have some doubts over Taz (I like him btw, and think he will be a very good player, and want him to stay) and another team offered overs for him, it would have to be considered 4 young KPF's don't go into three positions.