Analysis Pies made mistakes.

[THATSGOLD]

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Brereton-Pies-made-mistakes

Very interesting listening.

 

[ThisIsJake]

I rate my dogs football knowledge over breretons.

 

[Ant85]

I completely agree with Dermie. We unnecessarily dismantled a premiership list that had promise, and have unnecessarily fallen down the ladder.

After this year's failure, it is absolutely clear that Eddie Macguire should begin his smooth transition out of the presidency, and start the search for someone new. He has to be held accountable for what is a spectacular failure.

I was supportive of Bucks, but the results speak for themselves, and the only result that matters is where we finish at the end of each year. We are heading down south, we've jeopardised what could have been a second premiership, and heads need to roll for that.

 

[DRIZZT]

I rate my dogs football knowledge over breretons.

Maybe your dog can educate ANT85

 

[loki04]

Out of interest how many of said players do you believe should of remained and then on top of this how much do you really think that they would of vastly improved this teams ladder position?

I think if you sit back in the cold hard light of day you will see most of the decisions will prove justified.

The press is dated and was nutted out in 2011 the team who made the press what it was is not a capable team for the new direction footy has taken.

 

[rose jam]

I haven't listened but I'm going to assume the following names were mentioned;

Jolly
Didak
Thomas
Shaw
Davis
Brown

Now only Shaw and Thomas hadn't hit the end after 2011, in fact Didak, Jolly, Brown, and Davis were all gone by end of 2011 with their ability to influence (Davis one more year maybe).

That's not a witch hunt on your list it's natural attrition

 

[mwhop]

Without venturing into whether Dermie's conclusions are correct or not, I just can't help but feel he has formed his conclusion on some factual revisions, especially around the question of the exact time that the club decided to embark on a rebuild.

As I recall, ( and I might be wrong), the decision process was as follows:

End of 2011 - after the GF and bucks taking over, the decision was to give it another crack with the same list and gameplan as had been under Mick. TO the extent the list changed it wasn't through decisions of the club, with the arguable exception of Leon. As good as we were in 2011 it is easy to overlook that the team still had many "role players" who weren't that talented, but rather were just trained to do their specific job well under that gameplan (Blair, Caff, goldsack, toovey). Just because they were young didnt mean they were going to become stars as they matured.

End of 2012 - the result of keeping things unchanged in 2012 was that we made top 4 but teams had gone past us because our game plan had been worked out and from memory, I think this was the year the sub rule came in which limited our burst running power upon which our game plan was based. I think Dermie here is empirically wrong to say we were trending up, when in fact the club left things unchanged and we performed worse. At this time the club decided that the writing was on the wall and they had to adapt the game plan, but only tinker with the list as this plan required rather than an extensive "rebuild". To the extent we could we kept all our stars. We only moved on role players who decided to leave or whose roles were replaceable (Dawes, Wellingham). Dermie relies on the Dawes decision as being emblematic, and while he may be correct in saying it wasn't the best decision to move Dawes on, it really wasn't emblematic of the clubs overall list management at this exact time, as Wellingham had asked to leave.

End of 2013 - after the very disappointing finals loss to Port the decision was taken that we weren't near good enough and to revamp and "dismantle" the list. The club here said goodbye to real substantial players on the list: Heath, Daisy, Dids, Jolly. Up until this point I don't think you can say the club took decisions to dismantle the best part of our list, and with the exception of Dawes and maybe Leon, the other players were ready to move or retire.

The only counterfactual to the decisions the club took that I could propose would be if we went really hard at the end of 2012 to trade and get more ready made top grade players so that we could win a flag before Dids and Jolly retired, and in that case also hold on to Dawes. Others may say we might have held on to Mick in 2012, but actually it was business as usual in 2012 and Mick's gameday coaching wasn't flash at the end of 2011.

 

[DinoSoar]

Another friggin thread on this?? Surely it's time to move on and stop the hand wringing over events that occurred 3 years ago. The past is the past, let's look to the future instead of rehashing the same stuff over and over again as it is rather pointless now. Yeah mistakes were made, can't change it now so the club will have learnt from it and now is moving forward. We should all do the same.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

I haven't listened but I'm going to assume the following names were mentioned;

Jolly
Didak
Thomas
Shaw
Davis
Brown

Now only Shaw and Thomas hadn't hit the end after 2011, in fact Didak, Jolly, Brown, and Davis were all gone by end of 2011 with their ability to influence (Davis one more year maybe).

That's not a witch hunt on your list it's natural attrition

This is the issue.

We still haven't replaced the players like Jolly, Didak, Davis and Brown. They were all key role players for is in that successful period and they were all left or cooked after 2011.

We have not been able to find a decent mature ruck, talented mid/half forward, third forward ruck or a decent kick out of the back line. No surprises we have fallen when four of our most important players are gone. The young premiership list thing was a myth.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

St Kilda is the club that made mistakes.

 

[Markfs]

if you want to educate yourselves, take the team that played for Port last weekend and see what their draft position was. I did this exercise and it was an eye-opener. I knew about the high profile draft picks but there are a lot of low profile players at Port who were first round draft picks. Even the players that they have picked up like Schulz....I didnt realise he was such a high draft pick. Collingwood is trying to make fillet steak out of off-cuts. If you want to just continue to complain about our mistakes, go right ahead...

 

[Markfs]

brereton should do an analysis of his own self-importance. he think gws has employed him to educate their young forwards. he should realise that they are buying some good public relations. think of it as another take on israel folau...

 

[Markfs]

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Brereton-Pies-made-mistakes

Very interesting listening.

very interesting? Could you please post the link? It's obviously not the SEN one that you gave. I just finished listening to that one and it was basically about Brereton telling us how he told Eddie how the club should be run and that Ed didnt listen to him. I can understand why Brereton is so puzzled with the situation. He was kind enough to tell the Pies how things should be done and they decided to take another path. Like "Dermie", I'm perplexed why Eddie should ignore the truth. Brereton didnt have to impart his wisdom to an opposition President. I mean, he has obvious connections with the Hawks and is a hired gun with GWS, so there was no financial reason why Brereton should tell us the correct path to take. He did it because he is a fantatic guy and realised that he has a wealth of knowledge and experience that he has a duty to spread around. Rather than stand in front of the mirror each morning, telling his reflection how the world should be run, he decided to use some of his precious time to assist a friend in need....eddie...and he is ignored. I've completely lost respect for Eddie after this. I wonder if we can get "Dermie" as President... I know we mightn't be able to afford him..and that he is always going to be thinking about the interests of his beloved hawks, but a part-time "Dermie" is obviously going to be a lot better for our club than the hack who is currently in charge.

btw. thanks for posting this link. It has completely changed my opinion of the club's situation but I feel that way every time I listen to "Dermie"...

 

[PieBeast]

What mistakes???
Personally I was certain we'll be the laughing stock of the comp and light years away from contending in the third year of Buck's tenure.

ps. not enough Dermie bashing and claiming your own Footy brain's superiority for my liking, lift your game fellas.

 

[Markfs]

I was just thinking about "Dermie" and Jolly. One of them is a guy who didnt realise that his time was up in football. His club said that his body had failed him and that it was going to delist him, but this guy refused to listen. He pursued his playing career with another club even though he was past his best. After finishing playing, this guy tried doing some lifestyle programs on TV to raise his profile.... he even dabbled in a bit of coaching but wasn't too good at it...

and of course, there's the other guy....Darren Jolly.

 

[Robroy22]

If Derm's doing an expose on "What's wrong with the pies?" its because even during a finals series we're not involved in: Collingwood sells stuff. Derm knows that, he's been a pies player and he knows Ed back to front. Now I have no doubt that Derm's observations (hindsight) would be intuitive, he has an excellent footy brain and he does KNOW footy clubs inside out (his improvement of Sav Rocca in one year shows his ability and nous up forward) but you only have to ask....why is he doing it NOW?
Hawks need some respite from too many Cyril questions? SEN need some ratings??
Old news Derm. Rehash it, reshape it, blame someone??? its all in the past and I for one am looking very much forward to our future.

 

[BlackWhiteBlood]

While we are over analyzing everything that is wrong at the club and sacking those responsible for past mistakes, lets get rid of everyone who decided not to take Stevie J (end of 06 from memory) due to injury concerns. If we had him surly we would have won every premiership since 07 if we had him.

 

[Matz]

I completely agree with Dermie. We unnecessarily dismantled a premiership list that had promise, and have unnecessarily fallen down the ladder.

After this year's failure, it is absolutely clear that Eddie Macguire should begin his smooth transition out of the presidency, and start the search for someone new. He has to be held accountable for what is a spectacular failure.

I was supportive of Bucks, but the results speak for themselves, and the only result that matters is where we finish at the end of each year. We are heading down south, we've jeopardised what could have been a second premiership, and heads need to roll for that.

Sigh....

 

[Robroy22]

Actually after what Selwood said last night (and the way the "old" boys played) Dermie will be penning exactly the same article about the Cats this week.

 

[Maggie5]

St Kilda is the club that made mistakes.

As did Brisbane under Voss, look at what they have drafted now in kids, just like we have. I think that after watching Geelong last night, they seemed to have taken the re-topping preference too and I would put our youth up against theirs any day.
At least where our players had trade value, we took advantage of it.

 

[Good_Old]

I'd prefer not to listen to someone who clearly just like the sound of their own voice, thanks though.

 

[Markfs]

his improvement of Sav Rocca in one year shows his ability and nous up forward)

lol... you have gotta be kidding.......evidently that story is number 26 on this list
http://list25.com/25-most-popular-urban-legends-still-being-told/

 

[Robroy22]

lol... you have gotta be kidding.......evidently that story is number 26 on this list
http://list25.com/25-most-popular-urban-legends-still-being-told/

I don't deal in urban myth. I was there, I saw it....Derm not only schooled Sav about body positioning and leading, he made him far more physical and gave him a lot more self belief. All in one season....too bad we couldn't have got Dermie earlier.

 

[Markfs]

I'd prefer not to listen to someone who clearly just like the sound of their own voice, thanks though.

evidently, it sounds even better when he does his famous reverse back-flip yoga position and sits on his head, thereby creating a cavernous sound where his voice reverberates the muscles of his nether orifice...

 

[Markfs]

I don't deal in urban myth. I was there, I saw it....Derm not only schooled Sav about body positioning and leading, he made him far more physical and gave him a lot more self belief. All in one season....too bad we couldn't have got Dermie earlier.

15 games...95 kicks...51 handballs....12 goals.....obviously he spent most of his time coaching Sav and didnt have much time for anything else..