No Oppo Supporters Re-signing Tex, Danger and Sloane *** Crows Only ***

[Mismatched]

This is the issue I have.....

look at tge NFL the average age of a senior cosch is in their mid 50's which indicates that by the time coaches are appointed to the Head Coach role they have served lengthy apprenticeships and they are ready to lead in their own right

however the AFL had gone through a period of appointing young coaches well ahead of time and needing to put structures around them because their apprenticeships have not been lengthy or diverse enough for them to be ready to perform the role in their own right.

However now I think we are seeing the trend change again with more senior and experienced coaches such as Hinkley, Walsh and Eade winning roles before younger coaches

my personsl view is that as a first time coach you are either ready to go or your not and if a club needs to invest and put in place a "training wheels" type of structure around a new coach then he is not ready and should not have been appointed in the first pkace.

From day 1 Walsh has said that he does not need a Coaching Director / Snr Asst structure as he would not have accepted the role unless he thought he was ready to completely fulfill the role and thats the way it should be.....

if I was running a multi million dollar business I would expect that staff in key toles that drnand
$500k are able to deliver on their entire role requirements without needing a babysitter

Agreed, I think everyone kind of saw Clarko come in and dominate and suddenly they all had to grab the next "Clarko". A coach without a premiership, but with experience, was seen as a failure and only good as an assistant. At the same time, a guy who was rejected by a few clubs was also avoided.

I think aspiring senior should be looking at 10+ year apprenticeships, not 3-6 years. It should be rare that as senior coach you've played with or against guys you're coaching.

Personally I'm not going to write Sando off as a senior coach, I think if he can spend a good 3-5 years as an assistant at another club, after this year with the juniors, then he might make a very good senior coach somewhere. He needs more experience and time to mature though.

 

[Sanders]

It's my opinion Sanders - Take it or leave it.

I have mentioned numerous time - Even before he was sacked - that Sando was poor on matchday & with strategy. We were consistently killed on the outside & defence vulnerable to turnovers. This was not a once off & frustrating watching our setups live as just knew what was going to happen.

Any senior coach or Manager needs to be a good leader of men/women. Imo, Sando wasn't.

Not all assistants have the ability to become head coaches - 3 years was ample time to see whether he could grow into the role.

Agree, Afc hardly helped by not replacing Bailey but Trigg giving him an extension on the back of tippett-gate was just 2 wrongs not making a right.

See that's what I'm talking about. Some boring cliches about his coaching and not much else.

There is more than one guy in the box, because we don't expect one person to be all things. We don't support him, and the sheep change their views with the wind.

Now he's become a complete fool. That's after the event revision.

 

[Sanders]

This is the issue I have.....

look at tge NFL the average age of a senior cosch is in their mid 50's which indicates that by the time coaches are appointed to the Head Coach role they have served lengthy apprenticeships and they are ready to lead in their own right

however the AFL had gone through a period of appointing young coaches well ahead of time and needing to put structures around them because their apprenticeships have not been lengthy or diverse enough for them to be ready to perform the role in their own right.

However now I think we are seeing the trend change again with more senior and experienced coaches such as Hinkley, Walsh and Eade winning roles before younger coaches

my personsl view is that as a first time coach you are either ready to go or your not and if a club needs to invest and put in place a "training wheels" type of structure around a new coach then he is not ready and should not have been appointed in the first pkace.

From day 1 Walsh has said that he does not need a Coaching Director / Snr Asst structure as he would not have accepted the role unless he thought he was ready to completely fulfill the role and thats the way it should be.....

if I was running a multi million dollar business I would expect that staff in key toles that drnand
$500k are able to deliver on their entire role requirements without needing a babysitter

Exactly right.

But there are 2 issues here. You've touched on th first one, how silly it is to appoint people who can't be ready. Makes no sense to appoint a work in progress and then complain when they're not the finished article

The second one is the revising band wagoners wanting to kick him when he's down, with all this he was always s**t stuff

I reckon a good chunk of the same people now saying he was the worst thing ever would be defending him if he were still in post.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

See that's what I'm talking about. Some boring cliches about his coaching and not much else.

There is more than one guy in the box, because we don't expect one person to be all things. We don't support him, and the sheep change their views with the wind.

Now he's become a complete fool. That's after the event revision.

What boring cliches? You are the one being general - I was being specific!

If you have ever been a director/Manager in charge, you would understand you are ultimately responsible for your staff - it's your job to get the best out of them, whilst keeping those above you happy.

You generally cannot do this by yourself In larger organisations. You need help of your 2Ic's But you need to make sure everyone us pulling the same direction. You need to supplement your weaknesses with other key staff as no one has it all.

Sando didn't get this. He had significant weaknesses, many if which Bailey covered. Ultimately Sando was not a leader of men, hence he is gone. Unless you have been a leader, you will not get this. Not trying to be arrogant, but you honestly won't understand unless you have lived this.

Ps. There has been no reinvention as I made my comments clear before Sando was sacked. You know this, so you are the one reinventing things

 

[Paladin]

Exactly right.

But there are 2 issues here. You've touched on th first one, how silly it is to appoint people who can't be ready. Makes no sense to appoint a work in progress and then complain when they're not the finished article

The second one is the revising band wagoners wanting to kick him when he's down, with all this he was always s**t stuff

I reckon a good chunk of the same people now saying he was the worst thing ever would be defending him if he were still in post.

Yeah fair enough I used to defend Sando I think we all wanted to believe in him but there was always lingering doubts about if he was the real deal. Now he is gone there is no attachment it's much easier to see his failings. Just human nature I guess the guy was very likeable. Especially when we were winning!

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Exactly right.

But there are 2 issues here. You've touched on th first one, how silly it is to appoint people who can't be ready. Makes no sense to appoint a work in progress and then complain when they're not the finished article

The second one is the revising band wagoners wanting to kick him when he's down, with all this he was always s**t stuff

I reckon a good chunk of the same people now saying he was the worst thing ever would be defending him if he were still in post.

As you may recall I got heavily criticized by some for at the time of Sando's appointment sharing what I was told by a Geelong board member in terms of their concerns regarding Sando as a senior coach

With this in mind I had some concerns with the appointment however supported Sando as I wanted the vcub to have success however regardless of season 1 results I did see signs of concern which by end of season 2 was totally aligned with the Geelong assessment

 

[Tex200]

As you may recall I got heavily criticized by some for at the time of Sando's appointment sharing what I was told by a Geelong board member in terms of their concerns regarding Sando as a senior coach

With this in mind I had some concerns with the appointment however supported Sando as I wanted the vcub to have success however regardless of season 1 results I did see signs of concern which by end of season 2 was totally aligned with the Geelong assessment

Yep remember you posting that clearly

 

[rezagun]

Exactly right.

But there are 2 issues here. You've touched on th first one, how silly it is to appoint people who can't be ready. Makes no sense to appoint a work in progress and then complain when they're not the finished article

The second one is the revising band wagoners wanting to kick him when he's down, with all this he was always s**t stuff

I reckon a good chunk of the same people now saying he was the worst thing ever would be defending him if he were still in post.

The bloke was an average coach at best i never warmed to him and most blokes with any football knowledge knew he was s**t. The hinkley effect down the road made him look even worse. So glad to see walsh has been appointed the man has a different way to go about it and im backing him in. Quote me.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

How would anyone know whether he had the ability or not? He was a very you g head coach, and we have him a mentor for just 1 year.

Who knows how he might have developed if he got the right support? After all, he got the job. Apparently was very impressive and highly respected in the industry.

I've never been a big fan, even in 2012 but I'm shocked at the amount of revising and reinvention that is going on now he's left.

He was hired to be a senior coach. If he couldnt do the job on his own, or after a year with Bailey, his relationship with Thompson, all the other resources we had around him, with all the players he had, after 3 years, he isnt a good senior coach.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

The bloke was an average coach at best i never warmed to him and most blokes with any football knowledge knew he was s**t. The hinkley effect down the road made him look even worse. So glad to see walsh has been appointed the man has a different way to go about it and im backing him in. Quote me.

LOL - so anyone who thought he was an ok coach, knows heck all about footy?

Laughable at best.

He was 30 seconds away from making the finals in 2013 and that was without our best key forward.

Walsh is the new coach, hope he does well but until he coaches a game or two, its too early to say we are better off.

 

[rezagun]

LOL - so anyone who thought he was an ok coach, knows **** all about footy?

Laughable at best.

He was 30 seconds away from making the finals in 2013 and that was without our best key forward.

Walsh is the new coach, hope he does well but until he coaches a game or two, its too early to say we are better off.

His match day decisions were severely defficient. Anybody with half a brain could see luke thompson wasnt the right match up for zeibell. The list goes on. He lost the playing group, he played his troop of favourites who were out of form, he didnt command respect he didnt have a tactical nous and got horribly exposed by other coaches. It was always a case of players not playing for one another and sando again got out coached. mediocrity is what has flattened this club and this must be erased im sick and tired of people saying one kick from a gf a game outside the 8! We didnt win a premiership another year in the wilderness. If you watched how they trained with sando compared to what they train like with walsh now its like chalk and cheese.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

His match day decisions were severely defficient. Anybody with half a brain could see luke thompson wasnt the right match up for zeibell. The list goes on. He lost the playing group, he played his troop of favourites who were out of form, he didnt command respect he didnt have a tactical nous and got horribly exposed by other coaches. It was always a case of players not playing for one another and sando again got out coached. mediocrity is what has flattened this club and this must be erased im sick and tired of people saying one kick from a gf a game outside the 8! We didnt win a premiership another year in the wilderness. If you watched how they trained with sando compared to what they train like with walsh now its like chalk and cheese.

No, basically you are saying....anyone who doesn't agree with you, know s**t all about football.

Awesome.

Good to know.

 

[1970crow]

See that's what I'm talking about. Some boring cliches about his coaching and not much else.

There is more than one guy in the box, because we don't expect one person to be all things. We don't support him, and the sheep change their views with the wind.

Now he's become a complete fool. That's after the event revision.

Something I read or heard was from a line coach who said that everyone in the coaches box is flat out looking at their area and the head coach (and snr asst, I presume) us the only bloke who watches the play unfold across the entire field. If this guy was correct, it is clearly one of the greater differences when taking the head coach position as you would need to use your intuition and combine it with the line coaches view to make sound decisions in the box. That's where the tactically astute would come to the fore and superb line coaches may not make the grade.

 

[cmndstab]

Reckon Sanders is onto something here. I know that people were pointing out Sando's deficiencies long before he was sacked, but in the space of a few months he's gone from "good coach but with some flaws" to "basket case coach that everyone knew was s**t".

Sando was never a s**t coach. He just wasn't a great one.

 

[Sanders]

If you have ever been a director/Manager in charge, you would understand you are ultimately responsible for your staff - it's your job to get the best out of them, whilst keeping those above you happy.

Speaking of non-specific bland cliches

 

[mickfaxis]

On a brighter note, it's February! We can expect an AFC announcement this month I reckon. My original call was Rory signing, but after Richie's 5aa interview last week, I'm thinking it's Douglas.

 

[Sanders]

As you may recall I got heavily criticized by some for at the time of Sando's appointment sharing what I was told by a Geelong board member in terms of their concerns regarding Sando as a senior coach

Fair dues. But to be honest I think you've been fairly consistent on Sando throughout.

Which is why you must find this new hive mind a bit unrecognable from the early days

 

[spenze]

I think that was the issue with Sando, he was an OK coach. It is open to debate on whether he was given the right tools to do the job or whether he should have demanded them but at the end of the day if you were going to bring in a senior assistant for a fourth year coach...it's alarm bells stuff, he is coaching for his life then. If you think a fourth year coach needs a senior you are best off moving him on.

 

[Doctor B]

I think that was the issue with Sando, he was an OK coach. It is open to debate on whether he was given the right tools to do the job or whether he should have demanded them but at the end of the day if you were going to bring in a senior assistant for a fourth year coach...it's alarm bells stuff, he is coaching for his life then. If you think a fourth year coach needs a senior you are best off moving him on.

I reckon this sums up what happened to Sando exactly.

 

[Tex200]

Look I think this is all pretty reflective of the average footy supporter in whose eyes, the players are king.

Team has success in 2012 - how good were our players!! The game plan? Nothing too fancy - get and kick long, pretty simple, could have coached themselves.

Team turns to crap in 2013/14 suddenly it's a complicated game plan - hard for the players to implement. Players are confused.

Couldn't possibly be the players - must be the coach. So then he's replaced.

Then it's all how crap the coach was. Didn't have an outside plan for MacKay.

Supporters can never accept its the players

 

[Sanders]

I think that was the issue with Sando, he was an OK coach. It is open to debate on whether he was given the right tools to do the job or whether he should have demanded them but at the end of the day if you were going to bring in a senior assistant for a fourth year coach...it's alarm bells stuff, he is coaching for his life then. If you think a fourth year coach needs a senior you are best off moving him on.

The question is whether a 2nd year coach needs a senior assistant?
Because that is when we cut him off.

There are a lot more experienced coaches than that who have senior assistants. I'd ask did we not replace Bailey because we thought the training wheels should come off, or for budgetary reasons

I'm guessing the latter, cause the former doesnt make sense

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Speaking of non-specific bland cliches

It may sound like a cliche but it is management 101. Sounds basic yet so many don't get it!

Tell me Sanders whether you think the players were playing for Sando when the finals were on the line in the last month of the season?

Imo, he had lost the players, which made his job untenable.

Many posters raised concerns about his ability on match day prior to his sacking.

I'm not saying sando was Robert shaw terrible, but imo does not have all the necessary tools to become a successful senior coach.

I'm far more confident in Afc moving on... Even though there are no guarantees with Walsh given he is untried.

 

[Doctor B]

Look I think this is all pretty reflective of the average footy supporter in whose eyes, the players are king.

Team has success in 2012 - how good were our players!! The game plan? Nothing too fancy - get and kick long, pretty simple, could have coached themselves.

Team turns to crap in 2013/14 suddenly it's a complicated game plan - hard for the players to implement. Players are confused.

Couldn't possibly be the players - must be the coach. So then he's replaced.

Then it's all how crap the coach was. Didn't have an outside plan for MacKay.

Supporters can never accept its the players

Playing devils advocate here. What happens if we make top 6 this year with essentially the same playing group? With your above reasoning when should a coach be moved on? We're you happy with game plans & match ups last year?

 

[spenze]

The question is whether a 2nd year coach needs a senior assistant?
Because that is when we cut him off.

There are a lot more experienced coaches than that who have senior assistants. I'd ask did we not replace Bailey because we thought the training wheels should come off, or for budgetary reasons

I'm guessing the latter, cause the former doesnt make sense

Could have been to save money...the club could have asked him whether he required one and he said no.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Reckon Sanders is onto something here. I know that people were pointing out Sando's deficiencies long before he was sacked, but in the space of a few months he's gone from "good coach but with some flaws" to "basket case coach that everyone knew was s**t".

Sando was never a s**t coach. He just wasn't a great one.

s**t coaches dont get AFL head coach gigs. In comparison to his peers he seems to be a middling coach at best. We the great unwashed can only get a feel for his coaching by looking at the output, primarily how the players act and play. Something happened (or didnt happen) between November 2012 and March 2013 that turned a young top 2 prelim final team into a lazy, mediocre, poorly lead, poorly drilled, poorly prepared and poorly motivated slightly older team.

I was very happy with Sando in 2012, its hard to argue with results. I started getting worried (and am on record here) after the first couple of preseason matches in 2013. The senior players you could forgive for starting slowly and not risking an injury, but the complete lack of drive or enthusiasm in the younger guys who should've been hungry to get a senior game in what shouldve been a top 4 team was as obvious as it was disappointing.

Tippetgate happened you say? If its not the senior coaches job to insulate the playing group from distraction, to focus their attention on their training, then whos job is it?

He lost Tippett for nothing you say? when was the last time a draft pick outside the top 5 had any impact in their first year?

He lost Walker you say? The damage was done, losing Walker just made it painfully obvious. His 2012 game plan was 'win the contested ball at all costs and kick it to Tippett and Walker', which worked because Tippett had a breakout year, took 2 defenders and left Walker 1 out, with a small forward free to shark the packs. In 2013 his game plan was 'win the contested ball at all costs and kick it to Walker and Jenkins' which didnt work because walker wasnt ready for 2 defenders and Jenkins wasnt ready for 1 defender, not to mention it had become very predictable and left us open to the sling shot rebound. When Walker went down we were ****ed anyway but for whatever reason 'win the contested ball at all costs and kick it to Jenkins' just didnt work out.

If hes a good coach who couldnt translate that to what the players did on the field, or he had personal differences or he 'lost the playing group' thats sad and all, but as far as im concernced is evidence that as of right now he isnt a good coach. He might become one and Alex and Lindy will be laughing and pointing and calling us all idiots, but he wasnt a good coach, and with the list were trying to keep together and with the players were trying to bring in, we just cant afford to keep a middling coach on in the hopes he gets better.