Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[ElectricG]

Congratulations. You now have an ideology that excludes women and indigenous Port supporters.

Wouldn't you like to share it? If not, why not?

Again. We won’t know until it’s legislated. Can’t believe you’re even considering voting no.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Again. We won’t know until it’s legislated. Can’t believe you’re even considering voting no.

You haven't even provided a brief. Do you have a working title?

 

[ElectricG]

You haven't even provided a brief. Do you have a working title?

No, but 80% of us support it.

 

[phantom13]

Again. We won’t know until it’s legislated. Can’t believe you’re even considering voting no.

Are 30 something white cis male port supporters historically opressed, higher incarceration rates, lower life expectancy etc etc?

Like, obviously this is a troll but the flippancy your displaying for the actual conditions of indigenous Australians is pretty s**t.

 

[killtaker1993]

My team have discussed back in July, at an informal catch up.
Amazing understanding and interest in Indigenous Culture and history.

All were horrified that we even need to do this at all.
All said they were voting yes, from ED down.

I was the only Indigenous person there.
At that time, I said it wont get up.They were shocked.

I said the politics of fear will kick in and the race hate will start.

They all said wtf, no way.

I was correct.

We live this every day, we had hoped for change, but we new, people look at us differently, they dont care.

This post should be at the top of every page of this thread. I hope some No voters read it

 

[Kwality]

I have no idea what that means but it’s a solid sidestep on your pointless link.

Pull up a mirror.:
'Yet to see a single coherent, measured, base level of intelligence argument against the voice.'

Can you see the wood for the trees ?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

No, but 80% of us support it.

So you are saying that 80% of white male Port fans support white male Port fans.

Should we assume the gap you wish to close involves education outcomes, or are you going to explain it us?

 

[ElectricG]

Are 30 something white cis male port supporters historically opressed, higher incarceration rates, lower life expectancy etc etc?

Like, obviously this is a troll but the flippancy you’re displaying for the actual conditions of indigenous Australians is pretty s**t.

Probably right on the incarceration bit.

But it all seriousness, it’s ghosty’s troll and I will not participate in it further.

 

[evolved2]

Are 30 something white cis male port supporters historically opressed, higher incarceration rates, lower life expectancy etc etc?

Like, obviously this is a troll but the flippancy your displaying for the actual conditions of indigenous Australians is pretty s**t.

I'd think so. Do you remember the tarps?

 

[phantom13]

Pull up a mirror.:
'Yet to see a single coherent, measured, base level of intelligence argument against the voice.'

Can you see the wood for the trees ?

Stand by my claim but I engaged with your post in good faith and responded to it in depth.

You ignored it completely, I suspect cause you know that “here’s an opinion that matches mine but doesn’t actually provide any facts to support my claim” doesn’t actually do anything but whatever.

Go back and check my convo with Carringbush2010. I’ll discuss and engage with anyone in good faith and earnestly but I’m also happy to call bullshit bullshit.

That link was bullshit, some of your discussion points are reasonable, that wasn’t.

 

[Kwality]

No, but 80% of us support it.

Appear to have - watch the excuses rolled out for how far many YES supporters are from the general populace.

Every bit as irrelevant as the NO advocates at the SSM referendum.

 

[Cmarsh]

You appear not to have done even the most basic reading on how this has a chance to be different. See gibbke above.
And if all those measures you mention have consistently failed, why wouldn’t you try this new way that listens directly to the indigenous- who understand their needs better than anyone else does?

Those processes do listen directly to Aboriginal experience and expertise. As an example, the entire NSW Aboriginal mental heath strategy is an Aboriginal expert led initiative. Not the " white driven" claim that the poster you refer to claimed.

The Voice to Parliament in essence is far from groundbreaking despite what many claim.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Those processes do listen directly to Aboriginal experience and expertise. As an example, the entire NSW Aboriginal mental heath strategy is an Aboriginal expert led initiative. Not the " white driven" claim that the poster you refer to claimed.

The Voice to Parliament in essence is far from groundbreaking despite what many claim.

Speaking of groundbreaking. How much in subsidies do we pay for Gina and/or Clive's voices?

 

[killtaker1993]

Why is someone of voting age on that dumb Tik Tok crap to begin with? Isn't it for Taylor Swift fans or some crap

 

[South of the Yarra]

Thorpe hates non indigenous. Mundine is more aligned to non indigenous. Though both no.....their sentiment are opposites.

My retelling wasn't the least bit hostile. It was seeking to make a point. What purported to be a documentary was instead a story. I simply want the truth without it being embellished with someone's personal view. In truth telling are we going to get the truth or just like Thorpe and Mundine someone's personal subjective take of the truth. ML put the story that the indigenous person who speared Phillip was so accurate and also knowledgeable about anatomy he could hit exactly where he wanted and know it wouldn't kill him despite it being through flesh near the neck toward the vertebrae. In her words he could have killed him if he wanted but didn't. It was embellishment on her part. Just like Thorpe and Mundine BS. And yes I've reached saturation point with BS

I'm unsure to what you are alluding suggesting there must be more to it. I'm sick of BS. And then I sit down to a documentary purporting to be history and it contains more BS. Does that explain it better?

How about I give you a factual account of the truth?

 

[10571z]

Are people genuinely claiming that Aboriginal people don't, won't and can't be heard without a Voice to Parliament?

All the constant consultation, co-designs, Aboriginal impact statements, cultural safety considerations that already happen and have been happening for years across a broad range of government departments for Aboriginal impacted initiatives and projects don't actually happen?

I must be dreaming.

Shh our health minister or indigenous affairs minister couldn’t possibly consult indigenous people without an enshrined voice! It’s just not possible.

This is the whole thing constantly over looked

 

[Golden_6]

Why is someone of voting age on that dumb Tik Tok crap to begin with? Isn't it for Taylor Swift fans or some crap

There are 8.5 million active Australians on tiktok. You can write it off as a joke but it clearly isn’t.

Those on the platform who aren’t of voting will soon enough be.

 

[Romeoh1]

Those processes do listen directly to Aboriginal experience and expertise. As an example, the entire NSW Aboriginal mental heath strategy is an Aboriginal expert led initiative. Not the " white driven" claim that the poster you refer to claimed.

The Voice to Parliament in essence is far from groundbreaking despite what many claim.

Looks like a pretty decent initiative and what a pity that, unlike the voice, the next nsw minister or govt can just throw it all out again.

 

[brutus76]

Canada did it 40 years ago recognising their aboriginal, indian and inuit peoples (1982)

Grow the fruit up Australia and join us in the 21st century please

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Shh our health minister or indigenous affairs minister couldn’t possibly consult indigenous people without an enshrined voice! It’s just not possible.

This is the whole thing constantly over looked

Wouldn't you prefer if they did consult with indigenous people?

 

[burge13]

Yes... I'm explaining to you... and hopefully others in the same boat as you...

That you're not voting on the costs, at the referendum.

Again, i never said we were. I hope you understand this time that I dont need your authoritative posts telling me whats what.

There’s no burden of proof here, I didn’t make the claim it wouldn’t improve anything.

At worst it remains exactly the same. Hardly gonna make it worse is it?

Imagine holding a $360M referendum on "well, it couldn't hurt" . Politics is such a ******* sham, shits me to tears.

How about doing something concrete

 

[10571z]

Wouldn't you prefer if they did consult with indigenous people?

On some issues of course. Why wouldn’t you?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

On some issues of course. Why wouldn’t you?

Do you think that politicians should be forced to listen to indigenous voices, on matters that concern them?

Like, make them do their job?

 

[Cmarsh]

Looks like a pretty decent initiative and what a pity that, unlike the voice, the next nsw minister or govt can just throw it all out again.

Huh? The advice from the Voice to Parliament can either be accepted or rejected by the Government of the day according to what is politically expedient of the governing party.

This has been one of the main criticisms of the Voice to Parliament, that its advice, however worthy, may be rejected according to the ruling non-Indigenous class.

Just because the body of the Voice would be in the constitution doesn't change this.

 

[phantom13]

Again, i never said we were. I hope you understand this time that I dont need your authoritative posts telling me whats what.

Imagine holding a $360M referendum on "well, it couldn't hurt" . Politics is such a ******* sham, shits me to tears.

How about doing something concrete

It’s cute that you think $360m is a big number in federal politics.

We’re about to vote no to an advisory voice and you think we could do more, maybe think on that.