Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[TheArchitect]

It's a commentary on the company you were happy to keep if you voted no.

If you found out a friend had voted no, would you stay friends with them?

 

[eastfreo75]

Lot of people love rolling out this line to imply you are racist for voting no.

Didn't help the yes vote IMO

No it didn't help the yes.

The main reason for the no vote is that Australia doesn't like change. Sure, that isn't racist.

Certain types of people voted certain ways.

Generally, the rich inner city voted Yes and as you get further from the cities it's more of a no vote.

Older you are the likely to voted no.

Young people under the 18 would have voted yes.

 

[Proud New Father of 3]

Its a very white left wing thing to criticize white people generally for political results they dont like, while ignoring ethnically diverse minorities for the political decisions they make.

The ethnically diverse heavy Western Sydney seats were all strongly no, but you won't hear labels of racism about them. Those same seats were also strongly no for the same sex marriage plebiscite. Didnt hear left wing criticism about it though.

Going off voting trends, the two key demographics that voted no were people from low socioeconomic status suburbs across Australia (happy to discuss my thoughts on the reason behind this, but it's probably not a Voice discussion), and suburbs with a large portion of voters over the age of 65.

My view is, people voted no largely because they either lack exposure or understanding of indigenous issues in Australia, or they saw it as a diversion from real issues they face, like the cost of living crisis. My view is, the 40 year old mother of 4 living in Penrith voted no because indigenous inequality just isn't an issue they are exposed to, whereas the 65 year old white bloke from Cronulla voted no for different reasons.

 

[Festerz]

Just watched a report from BBC World News on the referendum result and the reporter made the comment that the rest of the world will look at Australia with a different lens from now on - more backward than our youthful image would like to portray us.

The BBC News online report is pretty harsh too...

"Australians rejected a referendum on whether to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the nation's 122-year-old constitution, and give them greater political say."

"There was no expectation the "Voice to Parliament" - an advisory body made up of Indigenous people - would be a miracle cure for the problems they face."

"But when current efforts to "close the gaps" in life outcomes between First Nations people and non-Indigenous Australians have instead seen many widen, the Voice was a new approach that offered a glimmer of hope for many."

Hurt ripples in wake of Indigenous Voice vote

Following a landmark referendum, Australia tends to the wounds caused by months of brutal debate.

www.bbc.com

As others have said, most Britons and ordinary citizens of other countries will have no interest in this issue. But for the people that matter for us on the global stage and those involved in international trade and diplomacy, the suggestion that we are more than just a bit racist and no where near as egalitarian and welcoming as we like to promote ourselves as being. This will sit with us as a nation for a long time - even if that characterisation is unfair.

And the consequences in our own region will be harsh as well. I'm sure that we have placed ourselves a peg down or two in the eyes of our South Pacific and near Asian neighbours at the very time DFAT is trying to mend diplomatic bridges to ward off Chinese approaches to cement defence relationships in our own backyard.

I'm sure the fact that the NO campaign against Indigenous recognition was led by an Opposition Leader who, as Immigration Minister , was caught sfellowing at the plight of Pacific Island nations facing rising seas due to climate change will not escape them.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You didn't get the pamphlet?

you are arguing what people SHOULD do.

not what people ACTUALLY do.

they are 2 completely different things.

to win referendums you need to target what people actually do.

 

[South of the Yarra]

In what way do aboriginals not have a voice?

In what ways have Aboriginals ever had a voice? Step inside some remote communities, take a walk through the Lennox St end of the Richmond Flats. Then come and talk to me about having a voice.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I know Mundine's and other relo's and know he's been described as the white sheep of his family a few times.

But that's irrelevant. He might believe the IPA bullshit and see it as the only way forward for his people for all i know. There was a time Noel Pearson said similar. You might not like it but if you want to listen to indigenous views you need to listen to all of them.

Same goes for people who sing the virtues of Mundine and Price and think the likes of the other Mundine, Price or Mansell are all ratbags and shouldn't be given the time of day.

He shouldn't be the focus when he's not representing the majority Indigenous opinion. Plus he's a liar and a misleader and uses racist tropes.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Just shows how popular it was among indigenous people. Not very.

Actually, it was remarkably popular with Aboriginal people.

 

[ElectricG]

Keep dissembling all you like, I'm done with you.
You had every chance to put up an argument in good faith, every time you deflected or ducked and dodged with weasel words.

No. Nope. Didn’t. Did not. You just keep staying what the voice set out to be while simultaneously claiming it wouldn’t exist as a thing to benefit one group of people.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

You've fallen trap of the culture war side of BigFooty. Despite your left leanings supporting Jordan Peterson can't be allowed here. Your former allied will shun you quickly. Support of persona non grata

That's what I like about being independent. I don't subscribe to spin. It gets me into strife from both sides.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The NT rejected the voice with the highest percentage of indigenous voters while the least indigenous territory in the ACT the Yes vote won.

So you are saying those that have more exposure to Aboriginal people vote NO because they see the disadvantage as something they don't want to face.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Obviously: indigenous people have been second class for 200 odd years. We had a chance to bring them in and make our parliament listen on their terms.

We passed it up for Dutton chaos.

Wonder what the world thinks of Australia RN?

Dutton is going to go FR at question time. I genuinely fear he's going to go down the line of Trump.

Australia rejects Voice referendum to recognise indigenous people in constitution

Saturday’s voice to parliament vote failed, with the defeat clear shortly after polls closed

www.irishtimes.com

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Just shows how popular it was among indigenous people. Not very.

Ignorant opinion. I bet you ignored the stats I posted earlier, where Fitzroy Crossing, and other indigenous communities were above 70% support for the YES vote.

What do you expect when you ask a white man to vote on behalf of indigenous Australians.

 

[Carringbush2010]

And calling the Voice "Constitutionally guaranteed representation in parliament" is blatant misinformation.

Umm depending on the wording one wants to use.

This the actual Voice question posed to us to vote yes or no on.

“A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

Do you approve this proposed alteration?”

Source:

https://voice.gov.au/referendum-2023/referendum-question-and-constitutional-amendment

A yes result would've guarantee a Voice to parliament for ATSI people enshrined in the constitution.

What I assume ElectricG is stating that no other group has a 'voice' in an altered constitution, therefore it could be viewed as preferential treatment.

Which technically it actually is, however I don't think that's important.

Personally I couldn't care less if it's preferential coz I think an ATSI voice or advisory body IS needed.

But to suggest that comment is blatant misinformation is, well, blatant misinformation.

 

[Proud New Father of 3]

Wonder what the world thinks of Australia RN?

Dutton is going to go FR at question time. I genuinely fear he's going to go down the line of Trump.

Australia rejects Voice referendum to recognise indigenous people in constitution

Saturday’s voice to parliament vote failed, with the defeat clear shortly after polls closed

www.irishtimes.com

So embarrassing.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Thanks to Dutton and Littlepride , we are now known as a racist country around the world.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Going off voting trends, the two key demographics that voted no were people from low socioeconomic status suburbs across Australia (happy to discuss my thoughts on the reason behind this, but it's probably not a Voice discussion), and suburbs with a large portion of voters over the age of 65.

My view is, people voted no largely because they either lack exposure or understanding of indigenous issues in Australia, or they saw it as a diversion from real issues they face, like the cost of living crisis. My view is, the 40 year old mother of 4 living in Penrith voted no because indigenous inequality just isn't an issue they are exposed to, whereas the 65 year old white bloke from Cronulla voted no for different reasons.

Regional cities like Mt Gambier were around 20%, farming communities were 15%.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Absolutely spot on.

Price is fantastic. People call her a sellout because what? She doesn’t constantly blame the wrong doings of the past?

No because she turned her back on her people for self-gain.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

I love following Georgie. I'd marry her if I could

 

[South of the Yarra]

Nor is reading and analysing election results it seems

Nor is you knowing Aboriginal people and what they voted.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Because she said in her speech it was a lose/lose situation?

Life is more then just a picture

I am sure your 10 months of driving taught you lots about Aboriginal people.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

you are arguing what people SHOULD do.

not what people ACTUALLY do.

they are 2 completely different things.

to win referendums you need to target what people actually do.

Oh, so you did get the pamphlet. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[tandino]

I can't see what level of detail would have been sufficient.

It would still have been "the racist and divisive voice" to the LNP's marketing department. The detail part was just one plank in their platform.

Can't help but think it could have been a helpful tool to point to to show the soft No what was actually going to change, and the limits of that change, as opposed to just the principle.

So it makes it harder to amend politically down the line. At least you get it in, and kick the can down the road and deal with it later.

But if it turns out to be 60-40, that's a lot of people to shift. That's a big rejection.

 

[Festerz]

The NT rejected the voice with the highest percentage of indigenous voters while the least indigenous territory in the ACT the Yes vote won.

Just shows how popular it was among indigenous people. Not very.

The overwhelming majority of the polling booths across Australia with majority Indigenous populations voted YES.

THIS from NT for example...






But keep showing your ignorance and promoting your false narrative.

 

[Skeppersap]

In my town in Far North Qld, many indigenous people were strongly against this referendum. In fact in the weeks leading up to it, there were tents for both sides, not one indigenous people in the 'yes' tent. The opposite was true. I'm guessing most of the yes people are southerners who've moved up. It's a small community, did not recognise any of them at all.

We even had ********s drive door to door trying to convince people to vote 'yes'.

Most people won't report it but the 'yes' vote received hostile treatment in these parts of the country. And the common reason was that it would create an even further divide.

Everyone is equal and face the same struggles and opportunities these days, regardless of heritage. It's absolutely ridiculous to try to differentiate voices in parliament based on people groups and not where you live.

Good riddance to this referendum.

The best post in this whole thread! I'm sure the inner city lefties on big footy will tell you exactly why your community needed it though!