Autopsy Round 5 - Sydney d Fremantle by 16 points - Positives and Negatives

[clogged]

The same old plodders who have got us to 3 and 2 in probably the hardest start to a season draw wise we have ever had
Being beaten by the premiership fancies at their home ground is not the end of the world

Sydney are premiership fancies now?

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I know but he's not that much older than Crozier etc and his role is much harder than that of a defensive forward.

I'm just not sure why it is a necessity that the defensive forward must be a 100 game player who is unable to kick goals or provide a forward option. Even in Lyon's model surely there is capacity for a more creative player in that role?

PapaJ notes that in spite of the first quarter dominance only 2.2 was scored. But what do people expect when only two forwards have scored significantly for the year and one of them explicitly has a role that doesn't do so.

I don't understand this.
Do you mean only two forwards have scored significantly and another one (forward) explicitly has a role that doesn't do so ?
You can't be talking about Mayne because he hasn't scored significantly and although he has scored stuff all goals his role does not preclude him from doing so.

 

[clogged]

I don't understand this.
Do you mean only two forwards have scored significantly and another one (forward) explicitly has a role that doesn't do so ?
You can't be talking about Mayne because he hasn't scored significantly and although he has scored stuff all goals his role does not preclude him from doing so.

Talking about Pav and Ballas who have scored this year, and De Boer who hasn't and has never shown he is able to.

Mayne's lack of form only compounds the issue.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Talking about Pav and Ballas who have scored this year, and De Boer who hasn't and has never shown he is able to.

Mayne's lack of form only compounds the issue.

Of course.
I thought that was what you must have meant.

Gu is the answer to the deBoer problem and I get increasingly frustrated every time I see Tendai drift forward, take a nice catch and kick a goal.
The only explanation I can come up with is, since Barlow has been out Ross is wanting MDB to be an inside mid. But he is not doing that !

Colin Sylvia should have taken Chopper's spot in the Hawks game.

 

[PapaJ]

Talking about Pav and Ballas who have scored this year, and De Boer who hasn't and has never shown he is able to.

Mayne's lack of form only compounds the issue.

Yeah, right. I assume you're talking about DeBoer.

I might be missing your point, but I don't think Ross is expecting him to be completely negating.

When DeBoer and the team are playing well, he's actually a fairly creative player in his own bollocking hard working way. He'll score a goal every 2nd game or so and will set up a handful of others through pressure, being an outlet on a fast break and/or running fwd into space. I don't think you need to get 1-3 goals per game out of him directly, but I do agree that he's not providing enough attacking help in a more general sense. Along with Mayne (big time) and Balla to a degree, the '2nd string' fwd players aren't quite getting it right and it shows particularly against the better teams who don't give you too many opportunities to score.

 

[slicedndiced]

Would have to query over a range of usernames, so unlikely I will find it. Regardless, if Geelong and Hawthorn's young players are better than Freo's it is marginal. You just threw that in there to defend your argument that Lyons's game plan is perfectly sound, you don't truly believe it. If I started a thread that Lloyd and Bond were inferior recruiters, you'd be the first to disagree.

Longmuire* had Cunningham tag Hill. Last week Clarkson had Langford tag Ablett. Maybe that was out of sentiment for their fathers previous match ups, but it's certainly not something Lyon would try. Nor should he, given Crowley's in the side, but given the best coach in the league is willing to throw a young player like Langford the role of tagging Ablett, surely Lyon could relent on his pure defensive role that De Boer plays and give it to someone who, when it is his turn to do so, create scoring options himself.

*so coulda understands who I am talking about.

You wouldn't find it as I've never said it.

I have defended Bond and Lloyd from undue criticism in the past, but I have never labelled them as the best in the business.

I realise that you have your weekly flogging horse gravy, and that is fine. Last week it was Suban and this week it is MDB/the defensive forward position.

I would point to todays game and some things that Horlin-Smith did. Really tough, really courageous stuff against topline opponents. We don't see that from the Croziers and Sheridans in our squad. So, in essence, I kinda agree with you to an extent. I'm just not sure who to blame.

 

[clogged]

You wouldn't find it as I've never said it.

The things you've said that you've never said is long and false enough as it is. You'll probably deny you were the poster to begin with, GeorgeGrljusich.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I would point to todays game and some things that Horlin-Smith did. Really tough, really courageous stuff against topline opponents. We don't see that from the Croziers and Sheridans in our squad. So, in essence, I kinda agree with you to an extent. I'm just not sure who to blame.

Agreed, Horlin-Smith is a jet. The thing about Horlin-Smith and the other youngsters who have slotted into the Cats and the Hawks this year (thought Hallahan was good as well today in his limited time) is that they have a full year of actual development on guys like Sheridan and Crozier. Not only in age, but in terms of football development at VFL affiliates. The relative strengths of the Hawks and Cats means that they can just keep these guys in the VFL, longer than we can with Crozier and Sheridan. Who were both bounced between the WAFL and AFL to a greater extent in their second years than guys like Horlin-Smith were. Not only that, but the long-term affiliation with the VFL team means that Geelong has a much greater control over the coaching and development environment (not to mention the relative success of their and our state league affiliates).

I think that's part of it, at least.

 

[slicedndiced]

The things you've said that you've never said is long and false enough as it is. You'll probably deny you were the poster to begin with, GeorgeGrljusich.

Geez you're good at making false accusations Gravy.

Believe what you want, but you're wrong. I wasn't even near a computer for months at a time when that was going down.

Ever been in the jungles of Sarawak?

 

[slicedndiced]

Agreed, Horlin-Smith is a jet. The thing about Horlin-Smith and the other youngsters who have slotted into the Cats and the Hawks this year (thought Hallahan was good as well today in his limited time) is that they have a full year of actual development on guys like Sheridan and Crozier. Not only in age, but in terms of football development at VFL affiliates. The relative strengths of the Hawks and Cats means that they can just keep these guys in the VFL, longer than we can with Crozier and Sheridan. Who were both bounced between the WAFL and AFL to a greater extent in their second years than guys like Horlin-Smith were. Not only that, but the long-term affiliation with the VFL team means that Geelong has a much greater control over the coaching and development environment (not to mention the relative success of their and our state league affiliates).

I think that's part of it, at least.

Strong first post and welcome and it backs up my point of having a WAFL squad with decent coaching structures. I am extremely doubtful that we have that at present.

 

[clogged]

Believe what you want, but you're wrong. I wasn't even near a computer for months at a time when that was going down.

Ever been in the jungles of Sarawak?

I know I'm right, and so do you. Don't lie.

 

[slicedndiced]

I know I'm right, and so do you. Don't lie.

You don't know jack s**t. I'm being 100% honest.

In regards to your little PM to me.

I had no idea that it was an issue, but I will stop if you stop consistently trying to call me a liar, which I am not.

deal?

 

[clogged]

You don't know jack s**t. I'm being 100% honest.

In regards to your little PM to me.

I had no idea that it was an issue, but I will stop if you stop consistently trying to call me a liar, which I am not.

deal?

No deal.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Strong first post and welcome and it backs up my point of having a WAFL squad with decent coaching structures. I am extremely doubtful that we have that at present.

Cheers. I would agree - it seems like there is more conflict than agreement at that level.

 

[salim malik]

Sydney are premiership fancies now?

Check the pre season favorites and Sydney were right up there .
The wrist slitting over a 3 win 2 lost start to the season is mind numbing
Only the flogs on here could possibly think we would be 5 nil up to this stage

 

[pokerspiv]

Nobody is wrist slitting, but they are rightly questioning the continued selection of blokes who play like s**t week in, week out, when we have talented youngsters in our 2nds who will probably leave at the end of the year if it keeps up.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Nobody is wrist slitting, but they are rightly questioning the continued selection of blokes who play like s**t week in, week out, when we have talented youngsters in our 2nds who will probably leave at the end of the year if it keeps up.

This is something that is not confined to Fremantle.
Coaches everywhere have been guilty of having their favourites and playing players while ignoring better alternatives.
Ross Lyon himself was labelled with this by Saints fans. It is probably natural that he still has this trait.
We have been through it with Cuddles and Harvey and it could be suggested, playing favourites is alive and well at fremantle.

 

[clogged]

Nobody is wrist slitting, but they are rightly questioning the continued selection of blokes who play like s**t week in, week out, when we have talented youngsters in our 2nds who will probably leave at the end of the year if it keeps up.

I would not go so far. I would say their roles have been figured out and nullified by good opposition coaches. Happens quickly in professional footy, and Ross will have to adjust.

 

[caterina]

Check the pre season favorites and Sydney were right up there .
The wrist slitting over a 3 win 2 lost start to the season is mind numbing
Only the flogs on here could possibly think we would be 5 nil up to this stage

Salim you keep on saying that people are upset because we lost, when they are upset by how we lost. You can't seriously be happy with how we are playing?

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I would not go so far. I would say their roles have been figured out and nullified by good opposition coaches. Happens quickly in professional footy, and Ross will have to adjust.

Or, one or two links taken out of the chain and it is easier to break.

 

[salim malik]

Nobody is wrist slitting, but they are rightly questioning the continued selection of blokes who play like s**t week in, week out, when we have talented youngsters in our 2nds who will probably leave at the end of the year if it keeps up.

As I said only the flogs on here would complain about our start to the season. If the shoe fits..........

 

[clogged]

Check the pre season favorites and Sydney were right up there .
The wrist slitting over a 3 win 2 lost start to the season is mind numbing
Only the flogs on here could possibly think we would be 5 nil up to this stage

I find it strange that a healthy discussion about the effectiveness of the defensive forward role and the sides tactics in general is equated with wrist slitting.

The two sides Fremantle have lost to are not necessarily in the best form or injury free, but they do have coaches the equivalent of or better than Ross Lyon. So surely this side of the game is open for discussion? Why are you so keen to shut the discussion down?

 

[Fred Ziffel]

As I said only the flogs on here would complain about our start to the season. If the shoe fits..........

That is very unlike you Salim.

 

[clogged]

Or, one or two links taken out of the chain and it is easier to break.

True, but the side needs flexibility. Walters may not be back this season, so either someone with equivalent scoring power is needed, or the forward line needs a restructure to deliver the same overall scoring power.

 

[salim malik]

Salim you keep on saying that people are upset because we lost, when they are upset by how we lost. You can't seriously be happy with how we are playing?

I'm saying we have the same wrist slitting after every loss and its always the same flogs complaining that the sky's gonna fall in
Go back to last season and read the posts after the Richmond,Geelong and Hawthorn losses.
Same criticism ,same yadayadayada