Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[TylerDurden]

I think we need to let go of Day being the answer to all of our problems. Even when he returns, the smashings could still occur.
Let's call it out, Jai and Nash are in a form slump. How/ when they get out of it is up to them.

 

[The hands of stone]

With more and more clubs playing some version of the Richmond game plan that won them flags.

I’m just hopefully that we are developing a game plan that can counter this going forward, as we won’t win anything just following the leader.

When we are in finals/competing the Richmond style will be obsolete .
It almost is now . Planning to counter that , likely puts us behind the 8 ball.

Hopefully our developed refined game style will be ahead the curve

 

[hawkman]

We kick straight against the scum and we're 1-1.

People reacted just like this after losses during the 3-peat.

And Melbourne flogged the Dogs last week by 45. They are good side. Just annoying we didn't go at them from the start.

 

[eldorado]

*, I wish we'd beaten Essendon like we absolutely should have.

Then we'd be rightly 1 and 1, and wouldn't have to read about inevitable smashings every week, and never-ending losing streaks.

* this place.

 

[HedgeFund]

*, I wish we'd beaten Essendon like we absolutely should have.

Then we'd be rightly 1 and 1, and wouldn't have to read about inevitable smashings every week, and never-ending losing streaks.

* this place.

Our percentage would probably be closer to 90 - 95% too.

 

[OnTheRocks]

None of them!!!!


We're just going to lose forever!




FOREVER!!!


FOREVER!!!

 

[jumpingjai]

I think we can agree that Sam has a very high footy IQ .
As much as players / teams learn , so do coaches .

Sounds like he owned the message not getting there or being clear enough .
Maybe the tactics simply were too difficult for us to execute .
Thats a learn . And he will be a better coach for it.

Most high intellect athletes/coaches can have a tendancy to over think and overcomplicate things.
He may just need a gentle tap on the shoulder to simplify things a little .

Keep in mind he was'beat' by Scott in the coaches box round 1 , yet will still generated 28 scores.

This isnt a 'cant coach' panic button moment , its a coach learning with his team .

Agree completely
The plan was to build a competitive group from the bottom up.
Sam is learning. Players are learning. Mistakes have and will continue to be made.
I am very confident Sam and the club will get this back on track..
We must be patient.

 

[mustang]

When we are in finals/competing the Richmond style will be obsolete .
It almost is now . Planning to counter that , likely puts us behind the 8 ball.

Hopefully our developed refined game style will be ahead the curve

Yeah I agree with that but teams like GWS have taken that style to another level of development.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

What does this even mean?

What does Collingwood stand for?
What does Melbourne stand for?
What does GWS stand for?

It's just something that Jono Brown and Garry Lyon say when they mean "that team isn't playing well and their system isn't working". But it's just such a ridiculous phrase.
Nobody looks at the best teams and says "oh wow you can really see what they stand for". or "Geelong really stands for kicking goals." It's up there with calling a team a 'proud club'. Completely meaningless.

Also - I think it's pretty clear that the first quarter against Melbourne was a complete outlier in terms of intent and execution. The other 7 quarters we've played this year has had a much more direct approach towards goal. But since we're losing the midfield so badly every attack starts from the back pocket and we're playing on the opposition's terms. So of course we can't see the intended style of play

In terms of, I have no idea what we are trying to do or how we are trying to play. But then my second sentence said that so I not sure why your diatribe was necessary.

It’s little wonder many posters have deserted this place. Any criticism is greeted with aggression by fans who refuse to face reality.

If you can’t see that we have massive structural issues and a non-defined playing style then your eyes must be painted on. Sam Mitchell doesn’t get a pass mark on this. He wasn’t appointed yesterday. This is his third season and we have not improved during his tenure.

This is not to say that we won’t get there under Mitchell but he now has questions to answer.

 

[tommyk72]

Young inexperienced coach with young inexperienced team makes young inexperienced types of errors whilst trying to gain experience and identify the best way to challenge the best. Colour me surprised.

 

[unitedhawk]

In terms of, I have no idea what we are trying to do or how we are trying to play. But then my second sentence said that so I not sure why your diatribe was necessary.

It’s little wonder many posters have deserted this place. Any criticism is greeted with fans who refuse to face reality.

If you can’t see that we have massive structural issues and a non-defined playing style then your eyes must be painted on. Sam Mitchell doesn’t get a pass mark on this. He wasn’t appointed yesterday. This is his third season and we have not improved during his tenure.

This is not to say that we won’t get there under Mitchell but he now has questions to answer.

You make a fair point.

On a related matter, has any of the coaching panel or the football department as a whole, including the oft-quoted Rob McCartney, explained the thinking behind the perplexing choice of Finn as sub in Round 1? Or are we not allowed to question that either?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

You make a fair point.

On a related matter, has any of the coaching panel or the football department as a whole, including the oft-quoted Rob McCartney, explained the thinking behind the perplexing choice of Finn as sub in Round 1? Or are we not allowed to question that either?

Ahh, amongst the current shambles I had completely forgotten about that.

Merrett had 31 possessions and ran around without anybody near him whilst a generational tagger sat with the vest on.

What the hell was that all about?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Young inexperienced coach with young inexperienced team makes young inexperienced types of errors whilst trying to gain experience and identify the best way to challenge the best. Colour me surprised.

Yet the current premiership favourites have a younger list and an even more inexperienced coach.

For how many seasons is the club going to be given a walk based on “inexperience” exactly?

 

[derp de derp]

If you can’t see that we have massive structural issues and a non-defined playing style then your eyes must be painted on. Sam Mitchell doesn’t get a pass mark on this. He wasn’t appointed yesterday. This is his third season and we have not improved during his tenure.

This is not to say that we won’t get there under Mitchell but he now has questions to answer.

I don’t disagree entirely but our lack of midfield pressure/defensive efforts is why we are so easy to beat.

Worpel is just one example of a player leaking goals at stoppages through lack of defensive positioning. We won’t even look like winning until our mids start sticking tackles.

 

[Topiary]

"North Melbourne, West Coast, Freo, Adelaide and GWS were all less experienced than this team, so to me this is not a cop out."

GWS being less experienced is a little ominous for the competition.

And they have list concessions coming out of their ears.
If we had received the same treatment as North, the same would apply.
That said, the HFC hand should not be extended.

 

[Topiary]

We kick straight against the scum and we're 1-1.

People reacted just like this after losses during the 3-peat.

During the Repeat we had the List.

 

[Topiary]

During the Repeat we had the List.

Also needs to be said, I am not questioning competence, I remain concerned about endeavour and work rate.

 

[Topiary]

I think we need to let go of Day being the answer to all of our problems. Even when he returns, the smashings could still occur.
Let's call it out, Jai and Nash are in a form slump. How/ when they get out of it is up to them.

The big difference is the effectiveness of the midfield. At the moment it is poor. We are getting hands to it, but are not capitalising. We lack quality mids who can use the footy.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I don’t disagree entirely but our lack of midfield pressure/defensive efforts is why we are so easy to beat.

Worpel is just one example of a player leaking goals at stoppages through lack of defensive positioning. We won’t even look like winning until our mids start sticking tackles.

Agree on Worpel but sadly he is the best of a bad lot at the moment. Of the more senior guys, Newcombe still seems to be on summer holidays and Nash is just awful.

McKenzie is doing well. Ward looks to have stagnated though. Not sure where Cooper Stephens is or the point of him exactly. I am worried that the so called depth coming through might be a bit of a myth.

 

[Dragz]

Sometimes we try and make Footy to complicated.
1) We have the ball
2) They have the ball
3) Ball is in dispute

At the moment, I can't' really tell what our plan is for any of those scenarios. Let alone when the ball is in different areas of the ground. But at the moment, everything is going to look rubbish when the other team are the ones kicking it into our D50 all the time.

Where we'll see improvement is (1) in the centre and at clearances. First hands on ball and ball either out to a runner or kicked long.

Dunno what's been taught to Newk over the offseason, but i'd be throwing it out this week and "See ball, get ball" please.

 

[SSSSSS]

Yet the current premiership favourites have a younger list and an even more inexperienced coach.

For how many seasons is the club going to be given a walk based on “inexperience” exactly?

GWS having a younger list than us is incorrect. They fielded a slightly less experienced team than us on round 2 (our experience is heavily skewed by Gunston and Breust making up >25% of our on field experience) but looking at the list as a whole we are the 2nd youngest/least experienced list in the comp behind only North.

It's not an excuse but you can hardly compare GWS to Hawthorn. Kingsley inherited an underperforming team full of potential A-graders on every line who needed a shake up and new direction.

Sam inherited what I can say is one of the worst lists of players I've seen in Hawthorn colours ever.

We have turned over 26 (27 if you include Gunston) of the 46 listed players from our 2021 list. He also inherited a side with by far our best player in Sicily on the sidelines with an ACL. A list that was spiraling down the ladder while still in the top 8 for experience and age (6th most experienced side in the comp).

The fact we haven't had multiple spoons with the crap we had on our list in 2021 and the limited draft capital we've had is a testament to the astute recruiting of Sleepy Mark and co and Sam steering the ship through very rough waters. We certainly aren't seeing clear skies yet but I'm very confident that Sam is the right man for the job.

Apart from a few weird selections this year he's done well through his tenure. I don't really understand this lack of identity nonsense that has been thrown around in the media. We can clearly see there are patterns of play emerging as early as last year.

 

[perrdan86]

Yet the current premiership favourites have a younger list and an even more inexperienced coach.

For how many seasons is the club going to be given a walk based on “inexperience” exactly?

Are you comparing our list to GWS?

 

[tommyk72]

Yet the current premiership favourites have a younger list and an even more inexperienced coach.

For how many seasons is the club going to be given a walk based on “inexperience” exactly?

I may be too tuned out this season, but who are the premiership favourites in round 2 and by what metric are they less experienced?

 

[TylerDurden]

The big difference is the effectiveness of the midfield. At the moment it is poor. We are getting hands to it, but are not capitalising. We lack quality mids who can use the footy.

I'm saying, if Nash and Duke performed anywhere near their 2023 form, we'd be performing at lot better as a team. For whatever reason, they're not stepping up in Day's absence, and it's effecting the entire midfield mix.
Worpel is the only one in there performing anywhere near par at present.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I may be too tuned out this season, but who are the premiership favourites in round 2 and by what metric are they less experienced?

GWS and by any metric you choose.