VFL Sandringham's Appointment of Danny Corcoran

[Highlander35]

Sounds good to me. By 2016, won't the roos be the only team without a standalone?

I mean, the Bullants and Mustangs technically still exist, but they're pretty butchered.

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[Defacto]

Actions like this only serve the reinforce the importance for the Saints to have their own stand alone team. Instead of compromises from both St Kilda and Sandringham, as to what the other wants, it is apparent that we need our own stand alone team.

Not only do we have greater control over the appointment and conduct of administrators, coaches, trainers, etc etc but most importantly we can manage players in the way that St Kilda wants. The club can play players in positions that we need for development, recovery, strategy and game time and not be governed by the priorities of Sandringham.

You would have to think that we will possibly have a return to the past where the Melbourne based AFL teams, have their own competition, against each other and Sandringham and other VFL teams can go back to playing amongst themselves.

I have nothing against Sandringham, but can't wait to be shot of them and have total control of our own future, rather than be beholden to others.

couldnt agree more mate

i reckon an appointment like his would be ammunition enough to get assistance from the AFL to launch our own stand alone team. given the increased attention and focus on integrity in sport, the risk assessment on these alignments would not be good reading

 

[ike2112]

1) He got a 4-month ban. I don't condone what occured, or his part in it, but if he was the criminal mastermind... he'd have received more than 4 months.

2) People making statements about "any contact with our players"... you make him sound like a peadophile being allowed to coach Phys Ed class with your kid twice a week. Saints players likely never meet the Sandringham president. Saints players probably don't even know who is the football manager at Sandy, at best they might know which door to go in to buy a sports drink after the game.

3) Sandringham and St Kilda are two completely separate entities, which have an agreement around Saints deciding who will coach the Sandy team (as it's a dual role as Saints dev officer). Saints players are eligible to play for Sandy - this year I think the cap is 15 named. In the past Saints have abused this relationship and played players (in terms of position and gametime) for the sake of recovery, development or preparation and not with the primary intention of trying to win the game. Given Sandringham are in a stand-alone competitive league (and given the benefits of playing a game with the intention of trying to actually win), that was completely inappropriate on more than one level.

4) Right now the relationship is patched up, and there's the mutual benefits that each club expects from such a setup. If it was perfect, both clubs wouldn't be looking forward to the divorce.

 

[finders]

I have nothing against Sandringham, but can't wait to be shot of them and have total control of our own future, rather than be beholden to others.

I have no doubt that Sandringham think the same and good luck with funding a standalone team as the the coaches and staff will cost more than what is paid to the Zebras let alone all the othe other expences which wiil be at least $1 million plus

 

[Defacto]

1) He got a 4-month ban. I don't condone what occured, or his part in it, but if he was the criminal mastermind... he'd have received more than 4 months.

2) People making statements about "any contact with our players"... you make him sound like a peadophile being allowed to coach Phys Ed class with your kid twice a week. Saints players likely never meet the Sandringham president. Saints players probably don't even know who is the football manager at Sandy, at best they might know which door to go in to buy a sports drink after the game.

3) Sandringham and St Kilda are two completely separate entities, which have an agreement around Saints deciding who will coach the Sandy team (as it's a dual role as Saints dev officer). Saints players are eligible to play for Sandy - this year I think the cap is 15 named. In the past Saints have abused this relationship and played players (in terms of position and gametime) for the sake of recovery, development or preparation and not with the primary intention of trying to win the game. Given Sandringham are in a stand-alone competitive league (and given the benefits of playing a game with the intention of trying to actually win), that was completely inappropriate on more than one level.

4) Right now the relationship is patched up, and there's the mutual benefits that each club expects from such a setup. If it was perfect, both clubs wouldn't be looking forward to the divorce.

i think your minimising it

first of all, the 4 months was just for the mismanagement issues that the AFL could put on them then. the ASADA issue is yet to be sorted. he could be facing more time away from sport. any ASADA ban would make the AFL ban seem like a slap on the wrist.

on the second issue, its not just our players being around the corcoran. i think youre missing the point that he will be responsible for the staff sandringham hires, the volunteers they accept and the operations of the football club. he already has two big black marks next to his name for the appointments made at essendon and the operations of the football dept. massive red flag for me.

we are responsible for our players, they are in our duty of care. if something happens at sandi that involves our players it affects us. they will be in the care of sandi's runners, dr etc. its much easier for the issues that happened at essendon to happen at a WAFL/VFL club and for it to go un-noticed, due to the lack of attention and resources compared to the AFL

finally this issue has absolutely nothing to do with sandi winning games of football. it has everything to do with the duty of care we provide our players and how we protect the integrity of our football club and players

 

[Defacto]

I have nothing against Sandringham, but can't wait to be shot of them and have total control of our own future, rather than be beholden to others.

I have no doubt that Sandringham think the same and good luck with funding a standalone team as the the coaches and staff will cost more than what is paid to the Zebras let alone all the othe other expences which wiil be at least $1 million plus

1m plus...where did you get that number from? in the past i have heard a standalone team costs around an extra 200/300k

i'm no expert but surely theres alot of cross over in the roles between sandi and the saints. we already have a number of people who perform the same functions at sandi, so we wont need to re-hire/create more positions. for starters admin roles wont be needed as we already have them. we are already paying for sandi's senior coach and some of their assistant coaches, so the added cost there would be minimal. maybe we would need a couple extra development coaches to help with running the extra team. we would probably need an extended match day team to account for problems in fixturing but its no where near that 1m you are pushing

the big question is the ground. unless we get the ground its not viable.

also whos the say if the ground isnt viable we wouldnt look at moving the alignment. theres no reason why we couldnt move it to frankston. they have shown interest previously. if they are move accommodating and willing to work closed i am all for it.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Given the kind of attendances I expect our standalone will get from playing at Moorabbin, I think we may come to see being a standalone as making us money, rather than costing us. The club, along with a very repentant Kingston Council, are planning on making a two tier standing room grandstand. They wouldn't be doing that if they thought people wouldn't come.

I'm not worried about the cost of a standalone - I'm excited about the rewards of a standalone.

 

[stkildathunda]

1m plus...where did you get that number from? in the past i have heard a standalone team costs around an extra 200/300k

i'm no expert but surely theres alot of cross over in the roles between sandi and the saints. we already have a number of people who perform the same functions at sandi, so we wont need to re-hire/create more positions. for starters admin roles wont be needed as we already have them. we are already paying for sandi's senior coach and some of their assistant coaches, so the added cost there would be minimal. maybe we would need a couple extra development coaches to help with running the extra team. we would probably need an extended match day team to account for problems in fixturing but its no where near that 1m you are pushing

the big question is the ground. unless we get the ground its not viable.

also whos the say if the ground isnt viable we wouldnt look at moving the alignment. theres no reason why we couldnt move it to frankston. they have shown interest previously. if they are move accommodating and willing to work closed i am all for it.

For the record Frankston has never shown interest before, they are dead against alignments. They are standalone and always will be, they want to be successful and build sometning special standalone like Port Melbourne did.

 

[Defacto]

For the record Frankston has never shown interest before, they are dead against alignments. They are standalone and always will be, they want to be successful and build sometning special standalone like Port Melbourne did.

is that because they wish it to be that way or because they couldnt find a suitable candidate?

some of these VFL clubs might not have a choice soon? its getting tougher and tougher financially. i know here in the WAFL some clubs are posting 6 figure loses, it just isnt sustainable

Dolphins president John Barry said he would welcome talks with the Saints and any other interested AFL clubs regarding a partial alignment, which the Dolphins prefer over a full alignment.

"When they [St Kilda] left Casey, that building [training facility]) was going to be built at Frankston Park," Barry said.

"That would have been the perfect time to come to us because we were financially in trouble. That is probably the closest we have ever come to an alignment but they didn't knock on our door and they went with Sandringham."

"If they were to knock on the door, we'd definitely listen to them. And that's something we have always said," Barry said.

 

[stkildathunda]

is that because they wish it to be that way or because they couldnt find a suitable candidate?

some of these VFL clubs might not have a choice soon? its getting tougher and tougher financially. i know here in the WAFL some clubs are posting 6 figure loses, it just isnt sustainable

As far as I've been told they never wanted to. The might have said publicly they were open to the idea but the mayor/council always wanted a standalone team in Frankston. They were in bit financial strife but council backed them in, doubt they would have if they went into an alignment.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I have nothing against Sandringham, but can't wait to be shot of them and have total control of our own future, rather than be beholden to others.

I have no doubt that Sandringham think the same and good luck with funding a standalone team as the the coaches and staff will cost more than what is paid to the Zebras let alone all the othe other expences which wiil be at least $1 million plus

In case the news hasn't filtered to Brighton yet, we have announced that like all other Melbourne teams we also will have our own stand alone team in 2016. As to money, keep in mind that we provide coaches and help fund Sandringham now.

And you are right, it will be good for Sandringham to have to take control of their own affairs and do as they want as well. They will miss the money, players, support but they will be once again sole masters of their own destiny.

 

[stkildathunda]

In case the news hasn't filtered to Brighton yet, we have announced that like all other Melbourne teams we also will have our own stand alone team in 2016. As to money, keep in mind that we provide coaches and help fund Sandringham now.

And you are right, it will be good for Sandringham to have to take control of their own affairs and do as they want as well. They will miss the money, players, support but they will be once again sole masters of their own destiny.

You do realize that Sandringham pay the coaches wages aswell, it's not all out of the Saints pockets?

Sandringham help Saints out financially aswell, cos remember Saints can't afford to be standalone. Sandringham we mighty close to being standalone in 2014, money isn't an issue for them.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

You do realize that Sandringham pay the coaches wages aswell, it's not all out of the Saints pockets?

Sandringham help Saints out financially aswell, cos remember Saints can't afford to be standalone. Sandringham we mighty close to being standalone in 2014, money isn't an issue for them.

Obviously both Saints and Sandringham contribute to Sandringhams operations. The Saints have delayed the launch of their own stand alone team to 2016, but this was more to do with getting the ground at Moorabbin right, than a lack of money. The AFL and the local council have both stepped in with money to support the launch of the Saints own VFL team.

Common sense also tells you that if we are providing not only coaches and financial assistance, that we are also funding the salaries and associated on costs of all players that are on the Saints list, which is something that Sandringham doesn't have to cover at all. The wages and costs are all covered in the Saints Salary Cap. Sandringham will have to be covering all of these extra player payment costs when they go stand alone.

 

[stkildathunda]

Obviously both Saints and Sandringham contribute to Sandringhams operations. The Saints have delayed the launch of their own stand alone team to 2016, but this was more to do with getting the ground at Moorabbin right, than a lack of money. The AFL and the local council have both stepped in with money to support the launch of the Saints own VFL team.

Common sense also tells you that if we are providing not only coaches and financial assistance, that we are also funding the salaries and associated on costs of all players that are on the Saints list, which is something that Sandringham doesn't have to cover at all. The wages and costs are all covered in the Saints Salary Cap. Sandringham will have to be covering all of these extra player payment costs when they go stand alone.

Sandringham have 44 listed players they already pay wages to. Just some them play local footy when not playing VFL. So not heap more money as there's salary cap they need keep under still.

 

[Highlander35]

On the subject of our Standalone side, how many players would we need to contract for it? A dozen?

 

[Defacto]

You do realize that Sandringham pay the coaches wages aswell, it's not all out of the Saints pockets?

Sandringham help Saints out financially aswell, cos remember Saints can't afford to be standalone. Sandringham we mighty close to being standalone in 2014, money isn't an issue for them.

with what i have seen over here, thats not something i would count on forever without an alignment to an AFL team

things change very quickly when you're at that level. just ask swan districts who were backed by BHP and Rio, two of the biggest mining companies in the world

anyways i think were going off topic. the point is with the current issues facing professional sport we cannot afford to have our players playing for another entity that does not give us full control over the decisions being made. i'd love to know if all the employee and volunteers at sandringham are registered with the AFL and have been cleared by the integrity department

 

[Persevering Saint]

On the subject of our Standalone side, how many players would we need to contract for it? A dozen?

The other factor is that, increasingly, we'll put our NZ scholarship players into our standalone side, before we actually put them into our 44 on the salary-capped list. So we will probably need even less contracted VFL players.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

On the subject of our Standalone side, how many players would we need to contract for it? A dozen?

The answer is around 21.

In regards to Corcoran, I'm with De Facto, a short sighted decision by the club I have been a member of since 1984. What are they thinking????

In regards to the Zebras financial position, they like Frankston and Port Melbourne are struggling big time, any one with half a brain can see that in the annual report.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

The answer is around 21.

In regards to Corcoran, I'm with De Facto, a short sighted decision by the club I have been a member of since 1984. What are they thinking????

I cannot be seeing correctly....

Brianspeaking agreeing with Defacto! I didn't think the day would come.

 

[stkildathunda]

anyways i think were going off topic. the point is with the current issues facing professional sport we cannot afford to have our players playing for another entity that does not give us full control over the decisions being made. i'd love to know if all the employee and volunteers at sandringham are registered with the AFL and have been cleared by the integrity department

Can't speak for absolutely everyone but short answer is no, and why should we? If StKilda had control then there would be all but no volunteers. Remember the volunteers are there for the SandyFC not StKildaFC.

 

[stkildathunda]

On the subject of our Standalone side, how many players would we need to contract for it? A dozen?

I think have to sign 15-20 VFL players max.

 

[VDS66]

The appointment makes as much sense as us appointing Lovett as a player relationship advisor.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

The answer is around 21.

In regards to Corcoran, I'm with De Facto, a short sighted decision by the club I have been a member of since 1984. What are they thinking????

In regards to the Zebras financial position, they like Frankston and Port Melbourne are struggling big time, any one with half a brain can see that in the annual report.

Agreed on the mistake of the appointment of Corcoran, but unfortunately that is outside the scope of St Kilda's control. This bad decision sits entirely with Sandringham.

You are right, blind Freddie (and even possibly his dog) can see that Sandringham that all lower league teams are finding it difficult financially. When we remove the St Kilda coaching, staffing and financial lifeline, there might be a greater appreciation of their support from St Kilda.

Funding is tough in many sectors of the economy at the moment, from charities to sporting clubs. Corcoran, was the money raiser at Essendon and Sandringham have possibly bitten the bullet and taken him on, due to their own looming financial crisis just over the hill.

 

[VDS66]

Buggered if I can see where they get their money from. Certainly not from gate attendances.

Anyone shed some light?

 

[ike2112]

we are responsible for our players, they are in our duty of care. if something happens at sandi that involves our players it affects us. they will be in the care of sandi's runners, dr etc. its much easier for the issues that happened at essendon to happen at a WAFL/VFL club and for it to go un-noticed, due to the lack of attention and resources compared to the AFL

I think you misunderstand the workings of sport on gameday.

You say the players are under 'our' duty of care (meaning Saints). Yet suggest they are actually under Sandringham's duty of care.
If you are worried about systematic doping, then you must not have realised that the Saints players will not be under the care of Sandringham other than for a brief time every weekend. During the week, they're Saints players, under care of Saints staff. They simply play for the Zebras for a few hours.
Short of a runner spiking a drink or a Dr injecting a player injured during the game, there's no real scope for wrongdoing. Do you believe either of those 2 scenarios are likely?

To be honest I don't really understand Sandringham's appointment.
But I think the impact to St Kilda, and their players, is being massively blown out of proportion.