St Kilda returning to Moorabbin

[The_Wookie]

Ive heard that theyre putting in an air strip to alll

You do realize that just about every industry has some form of subsidization occur right? I think your opinion is pretty damn biased, not just a little.

And I dont believe in most of those subsidies either, but I especially dont believe professional sporting clubs and organisations deserve public funding in this context. As for bias - what? As opposed to every single St Kilda fan in here that has no bias whatsoever. Give me a break.

My question to you is do you want to see St Kilda fold as a club? It seems we cant turn a profit overall right at the moment and a good reason for that might very well be being hidden away at the back of seaford. Do you deny that focusing on Moorabbin, a place where a VFL team can be run out of and other potential endeavours and money making enterprises can actually be run out of realisticy, is impossible? We can potentially have naming sponsorship rights on a new facility that could generate very real income and provide a solid base for the next 50 years.

Do I want to see St Kilda fold? no. Do I believe that Moorabin is some mystical cure all for St Kilda's ills. No. I'll believe St Kilda can make money out of Moorabin when it actually happens. I mean the Saints have only had access to the ground since 1964.

People bring up your club because it itself has a very real history of mismanagement but has remained viable due to a long history of strength and success. Why is our mistake unforgivable yet those of other clubs not?

My club didnt put its hand into the public purse 5 years ago, and expect it again 5 years later, after failing 2 years ago.

The issue is you see it as just about dollars when its not as simple as that. Football is an emotive sport, its why any of us give a damn. To us its about correcting a mistake and ensuring the literal survival of our club long term and not seeing what happened to Fitzroy happen again.

maybe it is about correcting a mistake, it doesnt mean there shouldnt be consequences for past ones.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

I understand Moorabbin being the spiritual home of St Kilda but just how will a new training base there lead to an increase in memberships as some here have alluded to?

It is engagement and accessibility. The bulk of the supporter base is Bayside and Seaford has been too far, not well serviced by transport and generally a headache for the fans. Even when practices matches have been played there entry to the ground from traffic congestion was a nightmare. There's no real facilities there for fans either.

 

[Nutsngum]

And I dont believe in most of those subsidies either, but I especially dont believe professional sporting clubs and organisations deserve public funding in this context. As for bias - what? As opposed to every single St Kilda fan in here that has no bias whatsoever. Give me a break.



Do I want to see St Kilda fold? no. Do I believe that Moorabin is some mystical cure all for St Kilda's ills. No. I'll believe St Kilda can make money out of Moorabin when it actually happens. I mean the Saints have only had access to the ground since 1964.



My club didnt put its hand into the public purse 5 years ago, and expect it again 5 years later, after failing 2 years ago.



maybe it is about correcting a mistake, it doesnt mean there shouldnt be consequences for past ones.

So what do YOU suggest then? You're very quick to criticize us yet very sparse on direction that you think is the correct one. No Moorabbin isnt going to suddenly put us in the black but is most cerainly an avenue that can be exploited going into the future. What can we do with Seaford?

What consequences do you want to have happen exactly? Seaford isnt going to suddenly disappear the instant we leave. You dont think that the Frankston council might still get 4 million dollars in use from it over the next 20 years the lease was for anyway? Our presence there isnt bringing a draw card to the Frankston economy, nor the Seaford one so they arent exactly losing anything from us moving away.

Youre also acting like we are petulant child asking for handouts at every opportunity and moving around without forethought at all. The Seaford move was at the time considered the best option to allow the club to still compete on same level as the other clubs. In retrospect holding out in Moorabbin until the council was more favourable, considering we werent playing finals for long after the decision was made, would have been better but at the time that wasn't really an option. I feel thats a really disingenuous position to take and ignores the reality of the situation that was and the situation we can now see has eventuated.

 

[The_Wookie]

So what do YOU suggest then? You're very quick to criticize us yet very sparse on direction that you think is the correct one. No Moorabbin isnt going to suddenly put us in the black but is most cerainly an avenue that can be exploited going into the future. What can we do with Seaford?

Id have thought that was implied. You can stay in Seaford and use the venue you asked for and had purpose built for you.

What consequences do you want to have happen exactly? Seaford isnt going to suddenly disappear the instant we leave. You dont think that the Frankston council might still get 4 million dollars in use from it over the next 20 years the lease was for anyway? Our presence there isnt bringing a draw card to the Frankston economy, nor the Seaford one so they arent exactly losing anything from us moving away.

Consequences? I want the state government to turn around and say - no, we already gave you money. I want the council to say, no you already got money from another council and we've seen how your burning them. I want the AFL to say we already gave you money once, thats your deal done. I know of no other club that has done this twice in 5 years. I want the other clubs that are going to have to fund this preposterous exercise out of their equalisation funds to say wtf is going on down there, and why the hell are we funding this again?

 

[Defacto]

Id have thought that was implied. You can stay in Seaford and use the venue you asked for and had purpose built for you.



Consequences? I want the state government to turn around and say - no, we already gave you money. I want the council to say, no you already got money from another council and we've seen how your burning them. I want the AFL to say we already gave you money once, thats your deal done. I know of no other club that has done this twice in 5 years. I want the other clubs that are going to have to fund this preposterous exercise out of their equalisation funds to say wtf is going on down there, and why the hell are we funding this again?

Yet they arent... so what does that tell you?

 

[JackFlash]

At the MCG or Etihad, like everyone else?

Why does Geelong need to have a stadium all to themselves?

Is this a trick question or is the fruit falling early this season? You do know the joint is 75km away and does cater for a lot of people from the Western District of Victoria? Fairly useful idea in a "National" competition.
I think it's time i re-ignited my push for a name change at St.Kilda, surely they must become the "Southern Bayside Saints" sooner than later? I actually still like the "Southern Tassie Saints", but i suppose the Hawks and Roos have scooped the pool on that area of football nourishment?

 

[JackFlash]

gee i dunno... maybe the brand new stadium the AFL built for all of its victorian clubs

instead you get the opportunity to limit ticket sales by holding your finals at that s**t hole, robbing interstate supporters the chance of a finals ticket

Such an intelligent response, wil we see you down at Mr Miyagi any time soon?

It's impossible to have a constructive debate on a footy sports forum due the parochial nature of your average football fan. In the eyes of the fan their club can do wrong, no matter how bad they perform on and off the field. No mistake is too big, no problem cannot be solved, you cannot argue against this.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead !

 

[JackFlash]

Sick of people bashing the Saints on here, leave them alone!!

I'm on your side. I'm a fan of your board's decisions, without them Freo would still be s**t so I'm very very grateful to the St Kilda Football Club.

I reckon it's about 50/50, Freo are not out of the s**t until they win a flag...and that's not gonna happen, not with the bloke they have in the box currently!

 

[Defacto]

I reckon it's about 50/50, Freo are not out of the s**t until they win a flag...and that's not gonna happen, not with the bloke they have in the box currently!

Something we can agree on

 

[JackFlash]

Something we can agree on

Yes we can, one think i don't like is a lazy argument, kinda like the Freo forward line.....

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Id have thought that was implied. You can stay in Seaford and use the venue you asked for and had purpose built for you.

Complete twaddle! STKFC is not bound to a compromised development which it has outgrown albeit in 5 years with the huge increases in football department costs. Especially when the development has prospects for ongoing use by STKFC and the broader community. The way it is being portrayed it's as if it is being bulldozed.

Consequences? I want the state government to turn around and say - no, we already gave you money. I want the council to say, no you already got money from another council and we've seen how your burning them. I want the AFL to say we already gave you money once, thats your deal done. I know of no other club that has done this twice in 5 years. I want the other clubs that are going to have to fund this preposterous exercise out of their equalisation funds to say wtf is going on down there, and why the hell are we funding this again?

See this is where political ideology meets sheer vindictiveness. There's no reference to the amounts of money received by other clubs for their developments - because that would provide perspective in the debate and the idea is just to stick the boot into STKFC.
And there's clearly an obsession with the totally arbitrary 5 year number for some reason. Maybe the right number was 6 or 7 or maybe 10 years. Ah, hello! These are two different developments in two different councils. Kingston wants a renewal of the area whilst for the state govt it's in a marginal seat which will house 4 different local sporting associations apart from the Saints - but of course we'll just focus on STKFC getting all the money coz they're good for a kickin'.

 

[Colonial]

So does this end the crying of Saints fans over the money the Giants got?

 

[Kram]

So does this end the crying of Saints fans over the money the Giants got?

Saints fans to ever stop crying?

Tell him he's dreamin!

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Saints fans to ever stop crying?

Tell him he's dreamin!

The only crying here is coming from other AFL supporters who have nothing better to do than have a whinge about the Saints moving back to Moorabbin.
But you keep on sniping while you need massive help with your Cockburn.

 

[Colonial]

The only crying here is coming from other AFL supporters who have nothing better to do than have a whinge about the Saints moving back to Moorabbin.
But you keep on sniping while you need massive help with your Cockburn.

So thats a no then.

 

[Defacto]

So does this end the crying of Saints fans over the money the Giants got?

huh... when did that ever happen?

 

[Gangnam Saint]

So thats a no then.

Nah, the Giants are largely irrelevant in this discussion but feel free to chip in if you've got something meaningful to say.

 

[Colonial]

Nah, the Giants are largely irrelevant in this discussion but feel free to chip in if you've got something meaningful to say.

Sure.

Its a joke that the Saints are getting all this money to build a new facility after being at a new purpose built facility only 5 years ago.

 

[The_Wookie]

Complete twaddle! STKFC is not bound to a compromised development which it has outgrown albeit in 5 years with the huge increases in football department costs.

Especially when the development has prospects for ongoing use by STKFC and the broader community. The way it is being portrayed it's as if it is being bulldozed.[/quote]

Thanks for the unbiased assessment. But ill stick with the - lets put our hands out for government and council funding 5 years after we already screwed them once. Of course we arent all members of the "frankston can gagf" brigade.

See this is where political ideology meets sheer vindictiveness. There's no reference to the amounts of money received by other clubs for their developments - because that would provide perspective in the debate and the idea is just to stick the boot into STKFC.

No other AFL club is walking away from a 5 year old facility. Or ever has. When it does happen then we can talk about it. And this thread is about St Kilda and no other club, so deflect as much as you like.

And there's clearly an obsession with the totally arbitrary 5 year number for some reason. Maybe the right number was 6 or 7 or maybe 10 years. Ah, hello! These are two different developments in two different councils. Kingston wants a renewal of the area whilst for the state govt it's in a marginal seat which will house 4 different local sporting associations apart from the Saints - but of course we'll just focus on STKFC getting all the money coz they're good for a kickin'.

We'll focus on them putting their hands out twice in 5 years. And ripping off the Vitorian taxpayer, ratepayer and AFL in the process.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Sure.

Its a joke that the Saints are getting all this money to build a new facility after being at a new purpose built facility only 5 years ago.

OK, now go back and read the last 19 pages for a complete understanding of what is actually going on.
Thanks though, your input added plenty to the debate.

 

[Colonial]

OK, now go back and read the last 19 pages for a complete understanding of what is actually going on.
Thanks though, your input added plenty to the debate.

I know.
Saints fans defending their right to a hand out.
Other supporters saying otherwise.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Thanks for the unbiased assessment. But ill stick with the - lets put our hands out for government and council funding 5 years after we already screwed them once. Of course we arent all members of the "frankston can gagf" brigade.

The Linen House facility has got value. Value that has been and will be used by STKFC as part of a broader program or by other community groups. Funny that my view is bias even though it actually represents reality. Not sure what the "Frankston can GAGF" brigade reference is but that doesn't represent the broader view of STKFC fans.

No other AFL club is walking away from a 5 year old facility. Or ever has. When it does happen then we can talk about it. And this thread is about St Kilda and no other club, so deflect as much as you like.

So if Kingston Council with the State Govt wants to renew the Moorabbin oval - which was stated prior to the Saints being involved - then STKFC should just not get involved at all even though an AFL & STKFC invesment in the project represents the opportunity to build STKFC's revenue base, reconnect with supporter base with the intent of coming off AFL assistance? That's ridiculous. If that is the view then the AFL should just let teams fold.
But is that what we really want?

We'll focus on them putting their hands out twice in 5 years. And ripping off the Vitorian taxpayer, ratepayer and AFL in the process.

Ripping off taxpayers? Wow, sounds like Finnis and Co need to be handcuffed & charged by the jacks. Very emotive language.
Think this has been done to death. It is a shared facility with 4 other associations and all of them would recognise that having a professional elite program co-located will benefit all. And unlike some shortsighted posters, the AFL would recognise this investment is as much about lifting STKFC off future assistance as mich as it is about talent retention from grassroots football which is under a massive competitive threat from soccer.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

St Kilda and their perpetually badly run organisation are quite rightfully being questioned for this terribly wasteful move, no need to melt

It's ok we get that you don't understand how this is an investment for future success. Think there is a fairly universal view throughout the AFL world that whilst there were poor previous orgnisational decisions made that the new administration of Summer, Finnis & Co is doing a very good job and on the right track. All organisations go through ups and down and we, and many others, believe we've turned the corner.

 

[Nutsngum]

Id have thought that was implied. You can stay in Seaford and use the venue you asked for and had purpose built for you.

Consequences? I want the state government to turn around and say - no, we already gave you money. I want the council to say, no you already got money from another council and we've seen how your burning them. I want the AFL to say we already gave you money once, thats your deal done. I know of no other club that has done this twice in 5 years. I want the other clubs that are going to have to fund this preposterous exercise out of their equalisation funds to say wtf is going on down there, and why the hell are we funding this again?

Its a facility that Frankston council gave 4 million dollars for and will continue to exist and be utilized for the remainder of its existence. You continue to ignore every point made and cant seem to get past the entire idea that we dont deserve anything for reasons.

Every single one of the stakeholders in this new project seems to disagree with you and quite frankly you're simply making things up by implying this isn't a long term project and home for us and therefore another waste of money.

 

[The_Wookie]

Its a facility that Frankston council gave 4 million dollars for and will continue to exist and be utilized for the remainder of its existence. You continue to ignore every point made and cant seem to get past the entire idea that we dont deserve anything for reasons.

Im not ignoring those points at all. They are irrelevant to the argument that im making thats all. The fact is you had a facility purpose built for you by the AFL, the State Government and the ratepayers of Frankston and you are leaving it less than 5 years later and holding your hand out for more funds from the State Government, the ratepayers of Kingston and the AFL. Those AFL funds are coming out of the equalisation tax that clubs like Carlton - who can barely afford it themselves, Essendon and particularly Hawthorn and Collingwood are having to pay. Their supporters are entitled to ask why you deserve more from the AFL - since your AFL distributions are millions more than any other club in Victoria.

Every single one of the stakeholders in this new project seems to disagree with you and quite frankly you're simply making things up by implying this isn't a long term project and home for us and therefore another waste of money.

Im implying that its a waste of money because you already had a go at the taxpayer and afl purse 5 years ago. But hey, why should I care, its not like its the Saints money that will be spent - you dont have any after all, even though they'll claim the asset as theirs when its complete.

Governments frequently make decisions that we dont agree with. This isnt nazi germany and I dont need your permission or that of St Kilda supporters to express my disgust at this. Id do the same if it was any other club. Brigade me all you like.