Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[midorigreenwood]

Cognitive dissonance?

Then when the boats have stopped arriving illegally resources can be put into trying to solve the political/economic conditions at source.
Not rocket science.

Exactly, you'd be pissing in the wind otherwise. You need the carrot and the stick.

These current boats were heading to Malaysia because they've tacitly allowed for decades illegal migrants to join their informal workforce as a cheap/slave source of labour (and to subvert the political process in East Malaysia with regards to Indonesian migrants being ethnically similar as bumiputera malays)

Its yet to be seen whether Thailand or Malaysia really wants to "stop the boats" seeing how they've benefited economically off the back of these migrants.

 

[Pie eyed]

So currently, up to 8000 people may die so a campaigner like Tony Abbott can maintain his unsupportable lie about wanting to stop people smuggling.
Hope he drowns at sea....campaigner.

 

[Taylor]

So currently, up to 8000 people may die so a campaigner like Tony Abbott can maintain his unsupportable lie about wanting to stop people smuggling.
Hope he drowns at sea....campaigner.

Isn't it Indonesia pointing their guns at these people, or are you also including the thousands making the dash across the Mediterranean in human mass movement problems Australia should be doing more to fix?

 

[Taylor]

What do you mean "doing more"?

Australia could be far, far less accommodating to people trying to find a better life here.

Case in point, what the Indonesians are doing right now.

I'm not pretending Australia is being a good global citizen but when the neighbors are even worse then we aren't looking so bad. We aren't turning a blind eye to people leaving our country to either drown, get picked up by the Aus Navy or try and head back to the safety of the Indonesian coast only to be turned back to sea and the Australian Navy coming to collect them.

 

[medusala]

But the boats haven't stopped, and they won't be stopped. They may not be arriving here but they are very much still out there. At least you're coming round to the realising that bastardising a group of people isn't going to make the problem go away, we just outsource it to others.

"Bastardising". What is it with the need for such obviously nonsensical terms? Australia as per any sovereign nation has the right to determine its immigration policy.

Refusing to process illegal immigrants in no way entails "bastardising" those people. Using such absurd terms does no favour to those trying to make the argument that we should assist people smugglers in their operations.

And as for the oft quoted but equally ridiculous claims about Australia being an international pariah...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...indonesia-malaysia-and-thailand-10254262.html

A weather-beaten fishing boat crammed with at least 300 Rohingya refugees from Burma was barred from docking in Thailand on Thursday and towed further out to sea, after Thai authorities provided the passengers with emergency supplies.

On Tuesday, the Indonesian navy turned away a boat crowded with thousands of trafficked refugees, sending it on to Malaysia. On Wednesday, the Malaysian authorities rejected two boats carrying at least 800 fugitives between them. Despite the bans, more than 1,600 people from Burma and Bangladesh have landed in Malaysia and Indonesia since Sunday.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Australia could be far, far less accommodating to people trying to find a better life here.

Case in point, what the Indonesians are doing right now.

I'm not pretending Australia is being a good global citizen but when the neighbors are even worse then we aren't looking so bad. We aren't turning a blind eye to people leaving our country to either drown, get picked up by the Aus Navy or try and head back to the safety of the Indonesian coast only to be turned back to sea and the Australian Navy coming to collect them.

What, shoot 'em?

 

[Taylor]

What, shoot 'em?

Our navy will pick people up, the Indonesian navy will tow boats away and leave them looking down the barrel of their guns. Then if we dare send those people back in lifeboats we are the bad guys.

 

[CM86]

Our navy will pick people up, the Indonesian navy will tow boats away and leave them looking down the barrel of their guns. Then if we dare send those people back in lifeboats we are the bad guys.

Wait...

You support our navy catching them, and taking them back to the country they fled... for fear of death... (to face down a barrel of a gun).
And you support putting them in 'life'boats, and sending them back to Indonesia... which you seem to think isn't a safe asylum...

But, you don't care, as long as our numbers are down, and we don't appear to be bad guys?
You think we are doing enough??

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Our navy will pick people up, the Indonesian navy will tow boats away and leave them looking down the barrel of their guns. Then if we dare send those people back in lifeboats we are the bad guys.

Don't see a helluva lotta difference

 

[Taylor]

Wait...

You support our navy catching them, and taking them back to the country they fled... for fear of death... (to face down a barrel of a gun).
And you support putting them in 'life'boats, and sending them back to Indonesia... which you seem to think isn't a safe asylum...

But, you don't care, as long as our numbers are down, and we don't appear to be bad guys?
You think we are doing enough??

No, I'm not saying any of that.

I'm against Australia getting shat on by the world and Indonesia while Indonesia is turning boats back out to see, pointing their guns at them and kicking up a stink if we put the shirked responsibility back on them.

They metaphorically push the smugglers off the beach towards Australia, jump on the phone for our navy to pick them up just the other side of the breakers and call us out as getting in the way of their sovereignty if we tell them to accept them back.

Australia doesn't let people die at sea when they can get ships there to save them. We don't harbor (literally) smugglers.

 

[Taylor]

If you're fleeing for your lives why is a safe place outside of the Australian mainland unacceptable?

We absolutely live in paradise, I can see why this is the top of the list of places to live. It's not the only place though.

My own opinion is that immigration is terrible. Not for the country that the person moves to, expanded culture is great, but when a nation opens its borders it puts restrictions that demand the best. Effectively all the people who could make the originating nation better end up in Australia/USA, the truly in need cant afford to buy a boat ticket.

I don't know how to fix the problems in the rest of the world but that's the best solution.

 

[CM86]

If you're fleeing for your lives why is a safe place outside of the Australian mainland unacceptable?

We absolutely live in paradise, I can see why this is the top of the list of places to live. It's not the only place though.

My own opinion is that immigration is terrible. Not for the country that the person moves to, expanded culture is great, but when a nation opens its borders it puts restrictions that demand the best. Effectively all the people who could make the originating nation better end up in Australia/USA, the truly in need cant afford to buy a boat ticket.

I don't know how to fix the problems in the rest of the world but that's the best solution.

Fleeing for your life... into a situation where you have no life, and your family has no future...

Where is safe, outside of the Australian mainland?
What do you consider acceptable?
What do you consider unacceptable?

I think you're making up your stance on the fly. Because I'm sure you're smarter!

 

[midorigreenwood]

Fleeing for your life... into a situation where you have no life, and your family has no future...

Where is safe, outside of the Australian mainland?
What do you consider acceptable?
What do you consider unacceptable?

I think you're making up your stance on the fly. Because I'm sure you're smarter!

Its easy to say we want to help people without looking at the consequences but without looking at the big picture its obvious its no solution at all.

Of the 1100 migrants that reached the resort island Langkawi, Malaysia recently on boats, about 700 or greater than 60% were Bangladeshis.

If you accept Rohingya by boat (greater than one million population in Burma), what are you going to do when Bangladeshi economic migrants (potentially many millions more) simply say they are Rohingya asylum seekers?

They are ethnically similar to each other so there is no easy way to differentiate between the two groups.

If you're prepared to open up our borders to virtually unlimited numbers then why not simply fly them over directly by plane rather than waiting for them to come by boat?

By turning a blind eye to boat arrivals, you're turning a blind eye to the reemergence of the slave trade as desperate people hop on unsafe vessels on credit and are ransomed or become indentured labourers until they pay off their loans to the people smugglers.

Instead of tacitly accepting arrivals by boat we should be encouraging asylum seekers to turn to the nearest safe haven rather than taking journeys over thousands of kilometres where they are mercilessly exploited by pirates and people smugglers.

Looking at the map, the nearest country is obviously Bangladesh which shares a border with Arakan state in Burma. As discussed earlier if Australia is to do anything about the humanitarian crisis, it should be to provide financial incentives for Bangladesh to host asylum seekers in the short/medium term so there is no need for unsafe boat journeys. This would require coordination with transit and destination countries like Thailand and Malaysia to end the slave trade in SEA.

 

[Todman]

But the boats haven't stopped, and they won't be stopped. They may not be arriving here but they are very much still out there. At least you're coming round to the realising that bastardising a group of people isn't going to make the problem go away, we just outsource it to others.

 

[Gough]

This Senate committee is isn't painting a very pretty picture. One of the things that helps get me through this government is the remote prospect of Rudd, Bowen, Morrison, Abbott, and now Dutton being made to answer for this policy.

 

[CM86]

View attachment 136114

Stopped arrivals... not the boats...

But it was a pretty graph

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-20/government-criticised-over-boat-secrecy/6404950

 

[johnhunt]

This Senate committee is isn't painting a very pretty picture. One of the things that helps get me through this government is the remote prospect of Rudd, Bowen, Morrison, Abbott, and now Dutton being made to answer for this policy.

Senate committee has their own poor position and policy interests to defend. It looks quite hypocritical that the greens and Sarah Hanson young are complaining about the treatment of asylum seekers when their own actions were simply appauling. Had to laugh how much Sarah Hanson young copped it from people over her views on refugees/ asylum seekers.

 

[Gough]

Dymot, have you been emailing SHY?

 

[Xsess]

I want an inquiry into the actions of Sarah. Why do incidents in detention centres spike following a visit by her. How has she known about vessels entering Australian waters before our navy (ie other than being in constant contact with criminals)?

 

[WA ROO]

Dymot, have you been emailing SHY?

I don't have twitter
Even if I did,I wouldn't post this type of thing at anyone
Don't know if SHY is fat or a bitch(more brainwashed) as for the F*&^%$# part
Well if she is into 50 yr old bogans hey why not

 

[Gough]

I don't have twitter
Even if I did,I wouldn't post this type of thing at anyone
Don't know if SHY is fat or a bitch(more brainwashed) as for the F*&^%$# part
Well if she is into 50 yr old bogans hey why not

The good thing about Twitter is that it can be used passively, no one compels you to share anything, and you can tailor a news feed around your own interests.

 

[pazza]

I want an inquiry into the actions of Sarah. Why do incidents in detention centres spike following a visit by her. How has she known about vessels entering Australian waters before our navy (ie other than being in constant contact with criminals)?

So now we consider Amnesty International as a criminal organisation. When the criminal organisation is actually the Immigration department.

Abbott's un-Australian and un-compassionate attitudes to the out of control situation with refugees from Myanmar and Bangladesh must be condemned by all decent Australians.

 

[Maggie5]

Tones new three word slogan, Nope, Nope, Nope. (Kinda rhymes with with dope,dope,dope).

 

[midorigreenwood]

Considering the Burmese government has been trying to get rid of the rohingya minority for three decades and elements within have their hands deep in the people smuggling trade...

the US taking in these boat people while removing economic sanctions on Burma certainly sends the wrong message

I guess we'll see what happens in the coming months...

 

[johnhunt]

Considering the Burmese government has been trying to get rid of the rohingya minority for three decades and elements within have their hands deep in the people smuggling trade...

the US taking in these boat people while removing economic sanctions on Burma certainly sends the wrong message

I guess we'll see what happens in the coming months...

I agree with this. Abbott again is getting slammed by refugee groups for taking the logical rational actio . Also am finding it funny Indonesia wants Australia to take a lead and be cooperative claiming it's not fair otherwise considering their recent views on cooperating with Australia