Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Maggie5]

How does any of that fit into a sustainable immigration program controlled by the government (not people smugglers)?

There are other many issues at play such as infrastructure, document destroying and operational expertise.

Are you referring to my post? If so, is that still happening or you too stuck in the past?
No outrage for the other illegals happening now?

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

They are New Zealanders.

So, you're saying 'Yes, I'm against boatpeople mostly because of the countries they come from'?

Do you actually have a position to defend? Or are you just another panic merchant?

From your posting history in this thread you seem to say a whole lot of nothing.

I say again if I have characterized you wrongly then correct me by telling me where you actually stand or stop wasting my time.

I'm not going to take responsibility for you being deliberately vague then taking mock offense.

So you claimed Jiska said something. Jiska said he never did. Now you admit to checking Jiska's posting history. Yet you still think it is up to him to present a summary of all his thoughts on Asylum Seeker policy, rather than you admitting that you were wrong with what you said in the first place? Who do you think you are fooling? Yourself?

 

[mottrain]

Are you referring to my post? If so, is that still happening or you too stuck in the past?
No outrage for the other illegals happening now?

There is but there is a greater overarching problem with one over the other.

 

[Maggie5]

There is but there is a greater overarching problem with one over the other.

Looking forward to you explaining.....

 

[mottrain]

Looking forward to you explaining.....

Refugees are seeking permanent resettlement through dodgy means. There is a harder time having to deal with them and their cases then 'overstayers' who lawfully entered. Hence why the government goes about stopping this problem first and making it more realisitc.

 

[Maggie5]

Refugees are seeking permanent resettlement through dodgy means. There is a harder time having to deal with them and their cases then 'overstayers' who lawfully entered. Hence why the government goes about stopping this problem first and making it more realisitc.

Can't get out of the past, mmmm
I would say that 50,00 overstayers and those on visas whose qualifications may have been forged or dodgy migration agents are of more concern now. Unless of course you think that:
The boats haven't stopped
There have been deaths at sea
People smugglers are still operating.

 

[mottrain]

Can' get out of the past, mmmm

How am I not getting out of the past? The problem still remains and there's tonnes of material supporting that it has not been fully dealt with yet so it seems you are just deflecting.

 

[Maggie5]

How am I not getting out of the past? The problem still remains and there's tonnes of material supporting that it has not been fully dealt with yet so it seems you are just deflecting.

Links?

 

[mottrain]

Links?

To what???

 

[Max zero]

Some of these people have already been in detention over a year or more, how long should it take? What about the costs to house them off-shore, we have a 'budget emergency' Where are the costings regarding processing on-shore?

I still can't believe all the posts in this thread over 6000 AS yet no concerns about the overstayers. What about them? 50,000 plus!!

What is being done about the fact that the majority may be in jobs that Australians should be in? Even though the figure was at the end of Labor government's term, not an excuse why this government is not doing something about it. The past is the past, lets try and stay in the present and work towards fixing it for the future.

I also think you have got me wrong about the 457 visas and others. Have no problem if there is a genuine skills shortage but nothing will convince me we have a skills shortage in Beauty Salon Managers, Chef, cooks, kitchen hands, Retail etc etc. Then of course they can bring their parents, siblings, partner, children who in turn are also eligible to work in Australia.

No responses to any of the above? Just maintain the government line against the so called people smugglers, deaths at sea, illegal migrants, blah, blah, blah.
Just to make it clear that we agree that:
The boats have stopped
No more deaths at sea
People smugglers out of business

I would argue the costs of relocating and finding accommodating for 6 thousand people would be more then simple maintaining the status quo.

They are being processed and moving them around will simply delay that.

If we had just gone through all the effort of stopping the flow then bringing in them now would send the wrong message.

The people in detention are going to have to wait. I know that's not the answer you want to hear but that's the answer you are going to get.

The overstayers are an issue but the vast majority are found within 2 weeks of overstaying and deported. Ironically through employment is how many overstayers are caught. They are then sent into detention and deported while their employer faces heavy fines. What else do you want?

That list you gave of jobs being filled is an interesting one. Only cooks appear on the 457 list. There are inspections, heavy penalties and reporting hotlines. What is not being done that you think should be? Maybe the upcoming inquiry will tell us?

I will wait for the years end figures on boat arrivals before claiming 'victory.' It looks like an improvement so far though.

 

[mottrain]

Links?

To what???

 

[Maggie5]

To what???

Don't you read what you post?

 

[Max zero]

So, you're saying 'Yes, I'm against boatpeople mostly because of the countries they come from'?

So you claimed Jiska said something. Jiska said he never did. Now you admit to checking Jiska's posting history. Yet you still think it is up to him to present a summary of all his thoughts on Asylum Seeker policy, rather than you admitting that you were wrong with what you said in the first place? Who do you think you are fooling? Yourself?

Yeah I checked up his posting history. I proceed to find out he said nothing.

I admit I made a mistake in assuming his posts were actually saying something when they actually said nothing at all. Not a single post of his in this thread was talking about boat arrivals in a thread about boat arrivals. Explain that.

In order to stop this happening in the future he should state exactly what he believes (as someone asked me) so we don't have this confusion in the future.

He refuses. Seems to me he likes being deliberately vague. I wonder why?

 

[mottrain]

Don't you read what you post?

So you equate that to solely meaning links on web haha.

 

[Max zero]

How does any of that fit into a sustainable immigration program controlled by the government (not people smugglers)?

There are other many issues at play such as infrastructure, document destroying and operational expertise.

Which no one wants to discuss because they are actually hard questions.

It's much easier just to get on the moral high horse and demand someone else do something.

 

[Maggie5]

I would argue the costs of relocating and finding accommodating for 6 thousand people would be more then simple maintaining the status quo.

They are being processed and moving them around will simply delay that.

If we had just gone through all the effort of stopping the flow then bringing in them now would send the wrong message.

The people in detention are going to have to wait. I know that's not the answer you want to hear but that's the answer you are going to get.

The overstayers are an issue but the vast majority are found within 2 weeks of overstaying and deported. Ironically through employment is how many overstayers are caught. They are then sent into detention and deported while their employer faces heavy fines. What else do you want?

That list you gave of jobs being filled is an interesting one. Only cooks appear on the 457 list. There are inspections, heavy penalties and reporting hotlines. What is not being done that you think should be? Maybe the upcoming inquiry will tell us?

I will wait for the years end figures on boat arrivals before claiming 'victory.' It looks like an improvement so far though.

http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/skilled-occupations-lists/csol.aspx
Is this the list you were looking at? It is not only 457 visas, there are numerous other types of visas that lead to employment.
Not sure about cost comparison as there is nothing I could find that would support your arguement.
Where did you find the information that they are found within two weeks of overstaying?
More inspections, real skill shortages on the list to start with.

 

[Maggie5]

So you equate that to solely meaning links on web haha.

More reliable than out of your head.

 

[mottrain]

More reliable than out of your head.

GOtta go find where Morrison comments from his addresses are found.

 

[Gough]

Which no one wants to discuss because they are actually hard questions.

It's much easier just to get on the moral high horse and demand someone else do something.

There's no moral jockeying about having objections to the way our government are treating those in detention. Perhaps it's your insistance that a human life is represented merely as an economic value that makes you unable to see this.

 

[Max zero]

http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/skilled-occupations-lists/csol.aspx
Is this the list you were looking at? It is not only 457 visas, there are numerous other types of visas that lead to employment.
Not sure about cost comparison as there is nothing I could find that would support your arguement.
Where did you find the information that they are found within two weeks of overstaying?
More inspections, real skill shortages on the list to start with.

So we are now expanding to all visas. Okay. Yes there are so occupations that may not need to be there. Would have to see if the visa they are linked to have the same conditions as a 457 visa and their uptake.

The cost savings from mandatory come from the idea that it helps stops the flow. Thus fixing the problem permanently.

A softer touch on detention will simply encourage more boat people (as Rudd found out).
Have a look at the overall costs between Howard and Rudd. Doing on aspect cheaper can cause much higher costs long term.

http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

Sorry for the mobile link. Right at the bottom of the article (I'm surprised they bothered to get an opposing viewpoint at all).

 

[Max zero]

There's no moral jockeying about having objections to the way our government are treating those in detention. Perhaps it's your insistance that a human life is represented merely as an economic value that makes you unable to see this.

Are you kidding? This thread is nothing but moral jockeying.

Every single 'compassionate' solution offered would simply encourage people smugglers and boat arrivals thus causing more of the problems that got us here in the first place.

We tried it the compassionate way under Rudd. The end result being several hundred dead and several thousand in detention. Not to mention the billions wasted.

You will have to forgive me if I'm not impressed by solutions being offered that caused the problems in the first place.

As harsh as it sounds:

Being 'compassionate' in this issue has been a proven failure.

How many times must it fail for people to accept that?

 

[Maggie5]

So we are now expanding to all visas. Okay. Yes there are so occupations that may not need to be there. Would have to see if the visa they are linked to have the same conditions as a 457 visa and their uptake.

The cost savings from mandatory come from the idea that it helps stops the flow. Thus fixing the problem permanently.

A softer touch on detention will simply encourage more boat people (as Rudd found out).
Have a look at the overall costs between Howard and Rudd. Doing on aspect cheaper can cause much higher costs long term.

http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/news/illegal-immigrants-arrive-by-plane/story-e6frea6u-1226200568050

Sorry for the mobile link. Right at the bottom of the article (I'm surprised they bothered to get an opposing viewpoint at all).

Sorry, the government doesn't care how much it costs to keep AS in hell holes even it is double.
What is $61 million per month if it keeps those terrible human (sorry illegals) beings coming to Australia.
Aren't they confident enough in their policies working? Not sure, the boats have stopped.

 

[Jakko]

Stopping people smugglers frees up places for Iraq and Syria refugees, Scott Morrison says

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...aces-for-iraq-syria-refugees-morrison/5676608

 

[mottrain]

There's no moral jockeying about having objections to the way our government are treating those in detention. Perhaps it's your insistance that a human life is represented merely as an economic value that makes you unable to see this.

So got some solutions to assist aiding its resolution yet???

 

[Max zero]

Sorry, the government doesn't care how much it costs to keep AS in hell holes even it is double.
What is $61 million per month if it keeps those terrible human (sorry illegals) beings coming to Australia.
Aren't they confident enough in their policies working? Not sure, the boats have stopped.

The government goes with what works not what makes people feel better.

Rudd tried it the other way around with predictable results.