Swans told to end COLA - OR be banned from trading in players for 2 years

[Tuco]

Utter bullshit to insinuate that those rules were chopped and changed at a whim to suit particular teams. You're just trolling saying that.

COLA was designed and legitimised as an advantage given only to the Swans and the other franchises

Actually COLa was implemented to tackle a disadvantage the Swans had. Not to give them an advantage. Success just meant the disadvantage was no longer recognised.

 

[brad cooper]

You've got a very interesting few years coming up...

Great test for the 'Bloods culture' and Sydney's fair weather supporters

Your a great side and will be for the next couple of years and full credit to the hawks for dismantling us a couple of weeks ago. For a side that won so many flags between 71 and 91 it was funny to see you playing in front of an empty waverley throughout the late 90s. At least our fair weather supporters had the excuse of supporting a crap team for 72 years. What was yours?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Here is a history lesson for you: The Hawks played in eight grand finals in nine seasons from 1983-1991, yet only 5 years later in 1996 they nearly merged with Melbourne... And yet they survived, and today they are a strong club. The fans voted against the proposal and because of that the Hawthorn Hawks still exist today (instead of the Melbourne Hawks, red and brown? yuck). You probably aren't aware but South fans voted against moving to Sydney as well, there was a groundswell of support for the "Keep South at South" movement but the club was penniless and heavily in debt, it couldn't afford to stay. The AFL (then VFL) placed the club in Sydney but due to the supporters and players past and present the club retained it's colours and history (a history older than that of Hawthorn). From day one in Sydney players left to return home to Melbourne-based clubs (Foschini, Morwood brothers) and the club was almost sold to Carlton! This was supported by the AFL and only blocked by Collingwood because Carlton wanted to play 11 home games at Princes Park and 11 away games at the SCG! It's true we lost 26 straight games in the 90s but guys like Richard Colless, Ron Barassi, Craig Kimberley, Paul Kelly and Rocket Eade helped turn around the culture. This work was carried on by Paul Roos, Stuey Maxfield, Brett Kirk, Jude Bolton, Adam Goodes, Barry Hall etc. and today we have an authentic club culture built from within the club that fans are extremely proud of. That culture wasn't built by the AFL as your peanut response suggests, but came from the leaders of our football club both on and off the field. Hawthorn were similarly unsuccessful (a laughing stock one might even say) before their own culture revolution inspired by John Kennedy snr (whose grandson is half-decent but "the family club" didn't want him...) which Hawks fans are rightly proud of. Both of our clubs built separate but strong cultures and both of our fan bases are proud of them, they're both fantastically rich histories and the game is all the better that Melbourne and Hawthorn didn't merge, and that Carlton didn't buy Sydney's license. It's just that I would never dream of dismissing your clubs culture or downplay it's role in the success of your club, but you're willing to disregard the impact of my clubs culture instead saying the AFL hands us our success. Both Alistair Clarkson and Luke Hodge, fantastic leaders of your club and admired by all, acknowledged the respect they have for the Swans leaders and culture both in 2012 when you lost the Grand Final and in 2014 when you won. Maybe as a fan you should do likewise.

Excellent post. Most Swans fans have great respect for Hawthorn. Such a pity some of their fans, (I say some) are so astonishingly graceless. In possibly their most successful period ever, to boot.

 

[Leg End]

Here is a history lesson for you: The Hawks played in eight grand finals in nine seasons from 1983-1991, yet only 5 years later in 1996 they nearly merged with Melbourne... And yet they survived, and today they are a strong club. The fans voted against the proposal and because of that the Hawthorn Hawks still exist today (instead of the Melbourne Hawks, red and brown? yuck). You probably aren't aware but South fans voted against moving to Sydney as well, there was a groundswell of support for the "Keep South at South" movement but the club was penniless and heavily in debt, it couldn't afford to stay. The AFL (then VFL) placed the club in Sydney but due to the supporters and players past and present the club retained it's colours and history (a history older than that of Hawthorn). From day one in Sydney players left to return home to Melbourne-based clubs (Foschini, Morwood brothers) and the club was almost sold to Carlton! This was supported by the AFL and only blocked by Collingwood because Carlton wanted to play 11 home games at Princes Park and 11 away games at the SCG! It's true we lost 26 straight games in the 90s but guys like Richard Colless, Ron Barassi, Craig Kimberley, Paul Kelly and Rocket Eade helped turn around the culture. This work was carried on by Paul Roos, Stuey Maxfield, Brett Kirk, Jude Bolton, Adam Goodes, Barry Hall etc. and today we have an authentic club culture built from within the club that fans are extremely proud of. That culture wasn't built by the AFL as your peanut response suggests, but came from the leaders of our football club both on and off the field. Hawthorn were similarly unsuccessful (a laughing stock one might even say) before their own culture revolution inspired by John Kennedy snr (whose grandson is half-decent but "the family club" didn't want him...) which Hawks fans are rightly proud of. Both of our clubs built separate but strong cultures and both of our fan bases are proud of them, they're both fantastically rich histories and the game is all the better that Melbourne and Hawthorn didn't merge, and that Carlton didn't buy Sydney's license. It's just that I would never dream of dismissing your clubs culture or downplay it's role in the success of your club, but you're willing to disregard the impact of my clubs culture instead saying the AFL hands us our success. Both Alistair Clarkson and Luke Hodge, fantastic leaders of your club and admired by all, acknowledged the respect they have for the Swans leaders and culture both in 2012 when you lost the Grand Final and in 2014 when you won. Maybe as a fan you should do likewise.

I would strongly suggest that this is one post Hawks fans should learn off by heart - then show the same respect to Sydney as your coach and captain do. It may also help that you stop lying about the Sydney Swans, our history and the disgraceful actions of the AFL.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

I'm not saying that Sydney will necessarily fall down the ladder when their concessions are taken away but it will be interesting to see what happens. I doubt there will be anymore big money signings like Buddy and Tippett where other clubs cannot responsibly match the offer which includes COLA.

It was clear that the AFL needed Sydney to be a success so they put in all these measures which meant that they would never have to bottom out which meant that all the fans in Sydney (a non AFL state) would not dessert them. Harsh but true. The same thing will happen with GWS until they are settled and have gained a fair few supporters/success. The old South Melbourne supporters(the ones who decided to support Sydney after South Melbourne folded) would still be as passionate as ever but they are Victorian and wouldn't be going to games.

Personally I don't really like or respect Sydney but that would change if they become successful without COLA/academy picks etc etc. The club has won 2 flags (both by under a couple of kicks) and it's hard to believe that if you take away around 1 million dollars worth of players from each game (COLA) that they would have won either. I'm sure Sydney supporters don't care and why would they. A flag is a flag but they should be able to see why other teams supporters are annoyed by it all

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Your so called strong culture didn't deliver any flags on an even playing field. I can't lie about that.

Enjoy an empty SCG in five year's time.

Yes, quite astonishing how an extra 9.8% can deliver that incredible gut running, that manic ferocious tackling, that ironclad team ethic, that tough, relentless accountable footy.

Jude Bolton, Paul Kelly, Brett Kirk, Stewie Maxfield, just in it for the money, weren't they?

Paul Roos, what an unethical mercenary. And clueless to boot.

Ted Richards, Mitch Morton, Mike Pyke, Martin Mattner, already absolute AFL superstars before joining us, became even more insufferable, preening prima donnas once they got their hands on the Swans' bucketloads of filthy lucre.

You're either delusional, or a graceless myopic jerk.

Lay off it. Your pathological rancour will guarantee you long term health issues if you don't deal with it promptly.

 

[Ashman23]

jerk.

Careful or I might have to point you out to the umpire.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Careful or I might have to point you out to the umpire.

Sorry!

 

[mcgarnacle]

Yes, quite astonishing how an extra 9.8% can deliver that incredible gut running, that manic ferocious tackling, that ironclad team ethic, that tough, relentless accountable footy.

Jude Bolton, Paul Kelly, Brett Kirk, Stewie Maxfield, just in it for the money, weren't they?

Paul Roos, what an unethical mercenary. And clueless to boot.

Ted Richards, Mitch Morton, Mike Pyke, Martin Mattner, already absolute AFL superstars before joining us, became even more insufferable, preening prima donnas once they got their hands on the Swans' bucketloads of filthy lucre.

You're either delusional, or a graceless myopic jerk.

Lay off it. Your pathological rancour will guarantee you long term health issues if you don't deal with it promptly.

no doubt any dip over the next 5 years will be attributed to not having an allowance, rather than the inability to regenerate the list effectively.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

I hope that you also announced this on Facebook and twitter, just in case anyone missed out on how important it was....

Yes, quite astonishing how an extra 9.8% can deliver that incredible gut running, that manic ferocious tackling, that ironclad team ethic, that tough, relentless accountable footy.

Jude Bolton, Paul Kelly, Brett Kirk, Stewie Maxfield, just in it for the money, weren't they?

Paul Roos, what an unethical mercenary. And clueless to boot.

Ted Richards, Mitch Morton, Mike Pyke, Martin Mattner, already absolute AFL superstars before joining us, became even more insufferable, preening prima donnas once they got their hands on the Swans' bucketloads of filthy lucre.

You're either delusional, or a graceless myopic jerk.

Lay off it. Your pathological rancour will guarantee you long term health issues if you don't deal with it promptly.

To be fair, no one really had an issue with the Swans COLA until you recruited Tippett and Franklin in consecutive years after winning the flag.

The perception (rightly or wrongly) is that the Swans abused their COLA allowance, used it to poach big name recruits from other clubs instead of player retention.

 

[ScoobySnacks]

Actually COLa was implemented to tackle a disadvantage the Swans had. Not to give them an advantage. Success just meant the disadvantage was no longer recognised.

The disadvantage ended long ago. The Swans no longer have trouble recruiting players and having them play long careers in Sydney.

It became an unfair advantage when it enabled you, directly or indirectly, to recruit the two biggest names of consecutive free agency periods, on contracts that their clubs couldn't match.

 

[Tuco]

The disadvantage ended long ago. The Swans no longer have trouble recruiting players and having them play long careers in Sydney.

It became an unfair advantage when it enabled you, directly or indirectly, to recruit the two biggest names of consecutive free agency periods, on contracts that their clubs couldn't match.

All that's ended is the perception that the disadvantages exist. They're still there.

It's just like the Dogs. They have massive structural disadvantages and require millions in assistance. Does finding $7m over 7 years for Boyd now mean that all these disadvantages magically vanished? Of course not. Managing the cap to land a big name player and or even winning premierships changes nothing. Recruiting Tippo and Buddy is no different.

 

[The Brabazone]

I'm not saying that Sydney will necessarily fall down the ladder when their concessions are taken away but it will be interesting to see what happens. I doubt there will be anymore big money signings like Buddy and Tippett where other clubs cannot responsibly match the offer which includes COLA.

It was clear that the AFL needed Sydney to be a success so they put in all these measures which meant that they would never have to bottom out which meant that all the fans in Sydney (a non AFL state) would not dessert them. Harsh but true. The same thing will happen with GWS until they are settled and have gained a fair few supporters/success. The old South Melbourne supporters(the ones who decided to support Sydney after South Melbourne folded) would still be as passionate as ever but they are Victorian and wouldn't be going to games.

Personally I don't really like or respect Sydney but that would change if they become successful without COLA/academy picks etc etc. The club has won 2 flags (both by under a couple of kicks) and it's hard to believe that if you take away around 1 million dollars worth of players from each game (COLA) that they would have won either. I'm sure Sydney supporters don't care and why would they. A flag is a flag but they should be able to see why other teams supporters are annoyed by it all

Not liking the Swans is one thing, that's completely understandable as we're a strong side and beat you in a Grand Final, but not respecting us is a completely different kettle of fish. Personally I don't particularly like Hawthorn, purely because they're good and attending this years Grand Final didn't help matters (I still love many of their individual players such as Hodge, Rough and Breust), but I respect them as much or more than any other side in the comp. I don't respect Melbourne, they haven't earned it, same for GWS and the Suns (that could be about to change), and two years ago I didn't respect the Power but they've since earned the respect of all in the competition. Ditto to Freo prior to Lyon's arrival and Brisbane are currently winning back the respect they lost after their successful era came to an end. Watching how Hawthorn go about their business on and off the field means they are nothing but respected by me, but I would have thought watching the Swans for the last decade would have garnered respect from other clubs supporter bases as well. Particularly the likes of Hawthorn who we've enjoyed a growing rivalry with in recent times, and I note that your playing, coaching and administrative staff have spoken glowingly of the two way respect they have and have received from the Swans.

 

[dvas987]

wat

 

[tonk]

Yes, quite astonishing how an extra 9.8% can deliver that incredible gut running, that manic ferocious tackling, that ironclad team ethic, that tough, relentless accountable footy.

Jude Bolton, Paul Kelly, Brett Kirk, Stewie Maxfield, just in it for the money, weren't they?

Paul Roos, what an unethical mercenary. And clueless to boot.

Ted Richards, Mitch Morton, Mike Pyke, Martin Mattner, already absolute AFL superstars before joining us, became even more insufferable, preening prima donnas once they got their hands on the Swans' bucketloads of filthy lucre.

You're either delusional, or a graceless myopic jerk.

Lay off it. Your pathological rancour will guarantee you long term health issues if you don't deal with it promptly.

He's both.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

wat

What the Swans have done is somewhat on the nose.

 

[Tedeski]

I don't think even the 'you can trade as long as your outgoing exceed your incomings' is necessary.

Salary cap (round numbers, $10m base with 10% CoLA):

2015 - $11m
2016 - $10.8m
2017 - $10.6m
2018 - $10.4m
2019 - $10.2m
2020 - $10m

That really is all that is required to stage the CoLA out of existence. s**t, you could even say that those 6 years add up to $63m so spend whatever you want each year so long as it isn't more than $11m and the total over 6 years is $63m.

That's fair enough.
No doubt the Swans fought hard for the CoLA but once the decision was made by the AFL, the Swans just got on with the job at hand.

Oh well. They've sorted us out this time around. On ya Gill & Ed!

"Now for the Academies" says Ed!

Wow! Just wow! Clearly we've done wrong!

But we move forward & continue to be the well run club that we are.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Brought in at times that advantaged some and taken out when it would advantage others. The short lifespan of some of the rules is akin to the targeted COLA allowance rulings. The league is manipulated and has been for far longer than people care to think about.

Was there long enough for Melbourne to have a few goes at rebuilding

 

[Crankyhawk]

Your a great side and will be for the next couple of years and full credit to the hawks for dismantling us a couple of weeks ago. For a side that won so many flags between 71 and 91 it was funny to see you playing in front of an empty waverley throughout the late 90s. At least our fair weather supporters had the excuse of supporting a crap team for 72 years. What was yours?

The kids who picked hawthorn from late 80s success couldn't yet drive and the public transport out there was putrid?

 

[brad cooper]

The kids who picked hawthorn from late 80s success couldn't yet drive and the public transport out there was putrid?

Maybe the ones from the 70's could have given them a lift.

 

[yodellinhank]

Was there long enough for Melbourne to have a few goes at rebuilding

For the sake of hypothetical, the only time Melbourne was afforded the same Rd 1 priority pick rule the Hawks/Pies/Saints/Dockers used was in the putrid draft of '03. Give them a start of first round pick in '07, '08 (which they would've "deserved" under the old rule) and it would probably be a different ball game.

But, it isn't exactly the point. Bad clubs and decisions will always hold teams back: Carlton would be a better example of failed rebuilding with the old rule, the only team to double dip on it that didn't go on to be a regular top 4 side for a period of time (Pies, Freo, Hawks, Saints, Dogs).

My point is people whining about COLA being the main reason for Sydney's success whilst ignoring the fact that rules and rule changes have been assisting other top sides for years. Watch Port go on and be successful now with an increased TPP which helped them get Ryder. Boo Sydney COLA, Boo.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

That's fair enough.
No doubt the Swans fought hard for the CoLA but once the decision was made by the AFL, the Swans just got on with the job at hand.

Oh well. They've sorted us out this time around. On ya Gill & Ed!

"Now for the Academies" says Ed!

Wow! Just wow! Clearly we've done wrong!

But we move forward & continue to be the well run club that we are.

The cynical part of me wonders if the AFL did this move sorely to help out GWS and try ensure more big name free agents or contracted players like Ryan Griffen go the 'little fish' in the big pond of Sydney that is GWS.

I certainly don't think the AFL commission are weak-willed enough to buckle under pressure from the likes of Eddie Everywhere, the unfortunate fact is a strong successful Swans is probably hurting GWS chances in the Sydney market, and i suppose weakening the Swans by stealth is another example of AFL manipulation for political purposes...

 

[Ashman23]

Not liking the Swans is one thing, that's completely understandable as we're a strong side and beat you in a Grand Final, but not respecting us is a completely different kettle of fish. Personally I don't particularly like Hawthorn, purely because they're good and attending this years Grand Final didn't help matters (I still love many of their individual players such as Hodge, Rough and Breust), but I respect them as much or more than any other side in the comp. I don't respect Melbourne, they haven't earned it, same for GWS and the Suns (that could be about to change), and two years ago I didn't respect the Power but they've since earned the respect of all in the competition. Ditto to Freo prior to Lyon's arrival and Brisbane are currently winning back the respect they lost after their successful era came to an end. Watching how Hawthorn go about their business on and off the field means they are nothing but respected by me, but I would have thought watching the Swans for the last decade would have garnered respect from other clubs supporter bases as well. Particularly the likes of Hawthorn who we've enjoyed a growing rivalry with in recent times, and I note that your playing, coaching and administrative staff have spoken glowingly of the two way respect they have and have received from the Swans.

Right or wrong (I'm not trying to create/continue and argument) most Hawthorn supporters have enjoyed the success BUT we believe it has come off the back of shear hardwork against all odds. We were nearly merged, we were kicked from Waverley, we set up camp in Tassie and continued there long after St Kilda left town. We see Sydney as being given advantages to success that were never afforded to us and then we perceive the AFL is against us because we wouldn't leave Tassie and we see the same AFL helping you out. That's mainly why we don't currently respect the Swans.

 

[sherb]

Right or wrong (I'm not trying to create/continue and argument) most Hawthorn supporters have enjoyed the success BUT we believe it has come off the back of shear hardwork against all odds. We were nearly merged, we were kicked from Waverley, we set up camp in Tassie and continued there long after St Kilda left town. We see Sydney as being given advantages to success that were never afforded to us and then we perceive the AFL is against us because we wouldn't leave Tassie and we see the same AFL helping you out. That's mainly why we don't currently respect the Swans.

There is certainly a school of thought that Hawthorn had a substantial advantage with their zone back in the day.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-is-the-secret-to-hawthorns-success.1069685/page-5

Interestingly, Hawthorn supporters downplay the advantages in that thread. Funny that.

I would guess it is also a substantial advantage to play the Grand Final on your home ground against an opposition which has played comparatively few games on the same ground during the year.

It's funny how "advantages" are only a problem among club supporters when they are afforded to other sides. It just makes for partisan and pretty juvenile discussion really.

 

[The Brabazone]

Right or wrong (I'm not trying to create/continue and argument) most Hawthorn supporters have enjoyed the success BUT we believe it has come off the back of shear hardwork against all odds. We were nearly merged, we were kicked from Waverley, we set up camp in Tassie and continued there long after St Kilda left town. We see Sydney as being given advantages to success that were never afforded to us and then we perceive the AFL is against us because we wouldn't leave Tassie and we see the same AFL helping you out. That's mainly why we don't currently respect the Swans.

Kicked out of Waverley were you? Cry me a river, we were completely displaced from our home and moved up to Sydney without nearly the required support. We used to train on the Sydney Showgrounds when we could, but Eastern suburbs rugby league club had preference so often the club had to find empty parkland to train on. There was nowhere to store anything in Sydney (all the administration and facilities remained at South) so the players were responsible for storing equipment at their houses and bringing it to training. In the mid-80s, cost-cutting was so extreme that Barry Lyons (General Manager) used to book return flights from Sydney-Melbourne for the same day. It saved money but meant the playing group went on two flights and played a game of football all in the one day! Players deserted in the early years and the AFL sold our license first to Edelsten and then almost to Carlton! The club didn't survive because it was a trust fund of the AFL, but off the back of sheer hard work against all the odds. Maybe you should learn more about the history of the club before you repeat the dross you hear from radio Fat-Cats like Eddie McGuire, because against the odds is what the Swans truly are.