Toast The Big 4 all getting over a million people through the gate in season 2023

[Maze]

They all get a lot of marquee games at the MCG, don't forget.

Shocking we're behind Freo (is this a first), but being almost guaranteed to lose every week that ain't surprising.

I actually think that WCE crowds have been remarkable....if most other teams had a year like theirs they'd get half the crowds

 

[AstuteTiger]

Collingwood is the biggest in Victoria than Essendon, Carlton and Richmond.

Collingwood are estimated to have 500,000 supporters in Victoria and another 375,000 followers interstate. Essendon are around 400,000

No, you're wrong. In Vic, I can easily say Richmond are. Actually, you can throw a blanket on whose biggest in Vic. The order can change.
We have topped attendances in 2015, 2017, 18, 21 and 2nd in 2016, 19 etc If we had your fixture 2019 we would have topped also. Pies Playing bombers twice (85k), reverse that fixture and we top it again. The funny thing it isnt some made-up crap. Pies looked after on fixture more than any other club.

Yes, now pies are by being on top. That will change again when you tumble back down. The funny thing is most of us meaning tigers, bombers, blues, hawks etc know the fixture has a big bearing on overall crowds, meaning where you play and who you play twice.

Lol lol lol estimated numbers please stop it with your roy morgan or i guess for Vic you're just estimating on numbers, assuming!

 

[South of the Yarra]

Considering over half of Carlton's home games are at Docklands that's insane.

That’s hilarious. They played St Kilda, Brisbane, Bulldogs, Port, West Coast and GWS. Most of those games would have got the same crowd at the G.
Pies also played Lions and Kangas as Home games at Marvel at the Saints as a home game in Adelaide.
The Saints and Lions game would have got 30,000 more at the G. Now that is insane.

 

[AstuteTiger]

My honest view is Google searches are BS. Any successful team will get searches from any sports fan engaging with AFL. It’s a measure of success and this drives searches from any Tom, Dick and Harry!

But nothings perfect. Attendances are useless for comparisons of these clubs, you know that. Membership is highly influenced by Premierships and continued finals success. You know that too.

SuperCoach, my choice because it’s not influenced by on field success and it’s a survey of ‘engaged’ footy fans all around Australia. It’s a big national survey of engaged footy fans and not influenced by Premierships of capacity constraints (attendance). So it logically holds true this is a good guide, especially when over time it’s consistent in its report output.

But as I said, nothings perfect on this stuff.

I get what you are saying but as mentioned to What else we can do i don't use supercoach, 25 in my family + extended and none of us use it. Cant say this s a truly reliable on whos biggest same as searches.
That's why I harp on about attendances and memberships and socials, well socials not the be and end all.
But i do get on attendances & memberships being successful is the key catalyst you only need to look at pies this year and last. Even my tiges when on top.
Memebrships if you show improvement on field that will correlate on increasing numbers year on.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Want to try again there mate?

Richmond’s highest crowd vs GWS is 100,014

Might want to fact check before you go on your ill informed rants.

I think gopies meant in finals, not GF. We got 94K+ in 2017 PF and have a few more attempts up our sleeve to surpass pies 97K+ in 2023 PF

 

[dave10]

Yes but unfortunately we can back it up. The Tigers can’t. You just can’t get the people through the gate and that it the greatest evidence of all

Season Home attendance
Collingwood the top 3 season crowd averages in history
6 of the top 8 in history

Season Away attendance
Collingwood the top 7 Crowds in histury
8 of the top 10

Overall season crowds
Collingwood the best 7 in history
Collingwood 9 of the top 10

Crowds over 1.2 million in a season
Collingwood 7 times

Crowds over 1.3 milluon
Collingwood 2 times

Richmond, Essendon or Carlton have never drawn over 1.2 million.

You’re not even in the conversation until you can regularly draw over 1.2 million. So go talk to the others about who is 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

How can Carlton or Essendon draw 1.2M though the gates if Carlton play 6 home games / Essendon play 7 home games at Marvel Stadium which seats around 45,000 spectators?

I’m just asking for a friend.

 

[AstuteTiger]

North always been popular in WA, but reality is outside of the Eagles abd Dockers all clubs in WA are very very tiny.

I guess due to the Krakour brothers, Glendining and Cable.

You're spot on, with the latter comment, even though one poster gopies keeps harping on pies biggest around Australia after reading your post, It just made me think if pies are or if he thinks they are the biggest around Aus, what does it actually mean because if pies or any Vic team played in WA V the Eagles-Freo, SA/Crows & Power. QLD- Lions and Sydney Swans, the pies, and every other team would be dominated in the crowd as those teams would be if they played here.

In Vic, the big 4's homeland, for big games interstate or finals make no mistake majority of the support will come from Victorians travelling. In 2019 Lions V Tigers QF, the biggest crowd at the Gabbs 37.5K. We had 10K come from Vic and 3-4K members from within QLD.

Pies last year in PF v Swans had very good support, most of that pies crowd would've traveled from Vic.

So as mentioned in Victoria the heartland of the big 4 you could almost throw a blanket to whose biggest because we can all outdraw each other depending on circumstances, and ladder positions based on success. At the moment it's the pies as it was my team several years back.

Anyway, I've spent hours on posting, need to get some work done lol

 

[hadzy1607]

How can Carlton or Essendon draw 1.2M though the gates if Carlton play 6 home games / Essendon play 7 home games at Marvel Stadium which seats around 45,000 spectators?

I’m just asking for a friend.

If we sold out every home game at both MCG and Marvel (45k and 90k) we would have around 765k

 

[dave10]

I get what you are saying but as mentioned to What else we can do i don't use supercoach, 25 in my family + extended and none of us use it. Cant say this s a truly reliable on whos biggest same as searches.
That's why I harp on about attendances and memberships and socials, well socials not the be and end all.
But i do get on attendances & memberships being successful is the key catalyst you only need to look at pies this year and last. Even my tiges when on top.
Memebrships if you show improvement on field that will correlate on increasing numbers year on.

Yeah, but why harp on about attendances? They’re flawed as well when comparing these 4 clubs.

If you really want to look at attendances and account for capacity of stadiums. then the Eagles would end up putting even Collingwood to Shane in its successful years. Not even Collingwood can boast home crowds against interstate clubs (the best measure) anywhere near West Coast in its really poor years on field. Eagles membership is 103,000 and they’re coming off a worse year than Fitzroy even had!

 

[AstuteTiger]

How can Carlton or Essendon draw 1.2M though the gates if Carlton play 6 home games / Essendon play 7 home games at Marvel Stadium which seats around 45,000 spectators?

I’m just asking for a friend.

Before I head off, it's all fixture based. Not only playing at Marvel or the smaller GHMBA, lets say say Bombers playing GWS at Giants stadium (10K) when other big teams dont. That 100% affects overall attendances. The big one for me is double ups V other big 4 teams, Pies have been playing ess and blues twice and even cats twice and Tiges played each of these teams once. Simple maths will always get better crowds playing other Big 4 teams twice. We would've gotten 1.2 mill considering we got 1,131,144 (needing only another 69K), had we played ess and blues twice.

 

[What else we can do]

I get what you are saying but as mentioned to What else we can do i don't use supercoach, 25 in my family + extended and none of us use it. Cant say this s a truly reliable on whos biggest same as searches.
That's why I harp on about attendances and memberships and socials, well socials not the be and end all.
But i do get on attendances & memberships being successful is the key catalyst you only need to look at pies this year and last. Even my tiges when on top.
Memebrships if you show improvement on field that will correlate on increasing numbers year on.

I agree to a certain extend membership and attendance is the most reliable. If you want to research a clubs supporter base you look up membership and crowds not supercoach numbers.

 

[dave10]

If we sold out every home game at both MCG and Marvel (45k and 90k) we would have around 765k

I can almost be certain that in this era where attendances are much bigger than they were 10,20 or 30 years ago, a top 4 challenging Essendon would be drawing similar attendances to Collingwood with a comparable membership to Collingwood if it had the Collingwood home stadium arrangements and preferential fixturing.

When it’s the Bombers turn to be enjoying sustained success, coupled with being flavour of the month and dragging along the neutrals, their numbers across every metric will take off.

It’s home and away attendances in its poor years (2016 * year aside), being their floor crowds, are as good as any club in the AFL (excluding West Coast).

 

[dave10]

I agree to a certain extend membership and attendance is the most reliable. If you want to research a clubs supporter base you look up membership and crowds not supercoach numbers.

Noticed you didn’t mention Google searches!

Anyhow, I seriously have no idea why a nationally based survey of 150,000+ crazy & engaged footy fans would be a meaningless guide? Especially when it’s reporting outcomes are largely consistent over time. That confounds logic. It is a genuine picture of the national support landscape and the only argument against it would be that it’s from that nasty Murdoch group! Ooga, booga!

 

[What else we can do]

Noticed you didn’t mention Google searches!

Anyhow, I seriously have no idea why a nationally based survey of 150,000+ crazy & engaged footy fans would be a meaningless guide? Especially when it’s reporting outcomes are largely consistent over time. That confounds logic. It is a genuine picture of the national support landscape and the only argument against it would be that it’s from that nasty Murdoch group! Ooga, booga!

I agree with what you said that no measure is perfect. My point is you have to factor in all metrics including supercoach and google of who really has the biggest support base. I don't base it only on Google to support my argument.

 

[South of the Yarra]

How can Carlton or Essendon draw 1.2M though the gates if Carlton play 6 home games / Essendon play 7 home games at Marvel Stadium which seats around 45,000 spectators?

I’m just asking for a friend.

Because the majority of those games would not draw a bigger crowd at the G

 

[dave10]

Because the majority of those games would not draw a bigger crowd at the G

Oh c’mon, that’s rubbish.

Consider a Carlton or Essendon (or Richmond) as a top 4 premiership contender playing home games on Friday night and Saturday afternoon at the MCG like Collingwood. That’s the scenario you need to consider, that’s the scenario we’re comparing to, record years being set by Collingwood and Richmond the last decade in years they’ve played in GF’s and Premierships.

Essendon drew 60,000+ against the Swans in a mid table game in 2019 as one example. They weren’t even in the eight. Essendon sold out Marvel against the Crows this year and only 39K got in. Further, In 1998/99, years when crowds were lower without discounted game access memberships, kids go free month, MCC provisional members getting access etc, the Bombers drew 65,000+ against the Bulldogs, Swans & Roos.. All Marvel this year. No cheap freebies pumping up those crowds btw.

Carlton would deliver almost identical roll ups.

Anyhow, it’s unarguable.

I would say to anyone that keeps putting up attendances and membership as the yardstick for comparing these 4 clubs, your arguments are misleading. And, if for some reason in some drunken state we do accept attendances are a good measure, then it’s time to accept the Eagles home crowds would exceed these 4 clubs if they played in a 100K seater.. that’s the reality.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Ok, everybody gather around in a circle please, here I'm going to toss in the biscuit....annnnnnnnd,go!

 

[South of the Yarra]

Oh c’mon, that’s rubbish.

Consider a Carlton or Essendon (or Richmond) as a top 4 premiership contender playing home games on Friday night and Saturday afternoon at the MCG like Collingwood. That’s the scenario you need to consider, that’s the scenario we’re comparing to, record years being set by Collingwood and Richmond the last decade in years they’ve played in GF’s and Premierships.

Essendon drew 60,000+ against the Swans in a mid table game in 2019 as one example. They weren’t even in the eight. Essendon sold out Marvel against the Crows this year and only 39K got in. Further, In 1998/99, years when crowds were lower without discounted game access memberships, kids go free month, MCC provisional members getting access etc, the Bombers drew 65,000+ against the Bulldogs, Swans & Roos.. All Marvel this year. No cheap freebies pumping up those crowds btw.

Carlton would deliver almost identical roll ups.

Anyhow, it’s unarguable.

I would say to anyone that keeps putting up attendances and membership as the yardstick for comparing these 4 clubs, your arguments are misleading. And, if for some reason in some drunken state we do accept attendances are a good measure, then it’s time to accept the Eagles home crowds would exceed these 4 clubs if they played in a 100K seater.. that’s the reality.

Do you realise how many of Collingwood's games were on a Sunday afternoon this year and yet we still drew massive crowds? Also, many of our record years were not in years following Grand Finals or Premierships. Carlton and Essendon could not even fill Marvel in many games this year. The G would have made no difference.

 

[hadzy1607]

Do you realise how many of Collingwood's games were on a Sunday afternoon this year and yet we still drew massive crowds? Also, many of our record years were not in years following Grand Finals or Premierships. Carlton and Essendon could not even fill Marvel in many games this year. The G would have made no difference.

Because Marvel Stadium only sells about 40,000-43,000 tickets.

Collingwood v Brisbane earlier in round 23 had an attendance of 39,000k

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Do you realise how many of Collingwood's games were on a Sunday afternoon this year and yet we still drew massive crowds? Also, many of our record years were not in years following Grand Finals or Premierships. Carlton and Essendon could not even fill Marvel in many games this year. The G would have made no difference.

Really big clubs it matters not when or where they play. Collingwood get crowds no matter what.
The Eagles do the same when they are up and about. Full house every game.
If you need time slots to get crowds you are not a big club.
They should be using the event days now to help the lower drawing clubs like Anzac Day and kings birthday and opening round of the season.
Those days no longer need two of the big 4 vic clubs playing in them. They are event days which people plan to go to and are well passed needing those same clubs playing in that game.

 

[Nebular]

Actually Richmond got 94,247 v gws. Collingwood actually got closer to 98,000 with 97,661 v gws. I don’t Know why Richmond fans keep on stating that they drew 95,000 when they were more closer to the 94,000 mark.

You forgot to mention Roy Morgan in this post mate.
It's all half of us are here for.

 

[dave10]

Do you realise how many of Collingwood's games were on a Sunday afternoon this year and yet we still drew massive crowds? Also, many of our record years were not in years following Grand Finals or Premierships. Carlton and Essendon could not even fill Marvel in many games this year. The G would have made no difference.

And Essendon's records years were’t grand finals either. Point being, sustained success with ultimate achievement throughout is what drives attendances.

Collingwood’s record this year is on the back of riding a post covid wave, with neutrals flooding stadiums in droves, benefiting (compared to a decade ago) from MCC provisional members filling the MCC reserve to new levels, promotions like ‘kids go free month’ rocketing family attendances, 3/4 game access club memberships.. It goes on. Tigers to a degree the years prior to this.
And, good luck to Collingwood, they’ve aligned the stars in a glorious attendance year for football generally and the record falls.

Again, nobody (I think) is arguing Carlton, Bombers or Tigers is going to necessarily outdraw Collingwood horses for courses. However, give Carlton and Essendon the success the last 15 - 20 years Collingwood and Richmond have had, give them the MCG for 14 games a year, reduce their twilight Sunday games to align with the Pies, don’t send them to GMHBA for a Cats game that would’ve likely drawn 70,000+ this year (Essendon) and the full year attendance aggregates wouldn’t be a significant amount lower than what the Pies draw.

 

[dave10]

Really big clubs it matters not when or where they play. Collingwood get crowds no matter what.
The Eagles do the same when they are up and about. Full house every game.
If you need time slots to get crowds you are not a big club.
They should be using the event days now to help the lower drawing clubs like Anzac Day and kings birthday and opening round of the season.
Those days no longer need two of the big 4 vic clubs playing in them. They are event days which people plan to go to and are well passed needing those same clubs playing in that game.

Collingwood weren’t drawing big home crowds when they were well down the ladder in around 2016-8. Go an have a look at what a ‘crap’ Collingwood was drawing at the MCG. A crap Collingwood wasn’t drawing well either to be truthful. Although it’s full year aggregate was supported by their 14 MCG games and other fixture benefits akin to a good on field Collingwood.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

And Essendon's records years were’t grand finals either. Point being, sustained success with ultimate achievement throughout is what drives attendances.

Collingwood’s record this year is on the back of riding a post covid wave, with neutrals flooding stadiums in droves, benefiting (compared to a decade ago) from MCC provisional members filling the MCC reserve to new levels, promotions like ‘kids go free month’ rocketing family attendances, 3/4 game access club memberships.. It goes on. Tigers to a degree the years prior to this.
And, good luck to Collingwood, they’ve aligned the stars in a glorious attendance year for football generally and the record falls.

Again, nobody (I think) is arguing Carlton, Bombers or Tigers is going to necessarily outdraw Collingwood horses for courses. However, give Carlton and Essendon the success the last 15 - 20 years Collingwood and Richmond have had, give them the MCG for 14 games a year, reduce their twilight Sunday games to align with the Pies, don’t send them to GMHBA for a Cats game that would’ve likely drawn 70,000+ this year (Essendon) and the full year attendance aggregates wouldn’t be a significant amount lower than what the Pies draw.

Again, big clubs do not need good time slots or a free leg up with FTA national coverage. You either are a big club or you are not. 5pm Sunday a big club will draw a good crowd if they are a big club.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Again, big clubs do not need good time slots or a free keg up with FTA national coverage. Yu we either a big club or you are not. 5pm Sunday a big club will draw a good crowd if they are a big club.

Spot on. Collingwood drew 71,463 on a Sunday afternoon against the Swans in the 3.20pm timeslot. It was 9 degrees with rain. Extraordinary.