The prize for worst implementation of climate policy goes to...

[Pessimistic]

Now the coalition has it in place, it seems just as much a crock as kev or julias attempts

Thoug you have to give tony his due hes not nearly so personally linked to it as his predecessors, in fact it seems hes let the environment minister be well rusted to it, much like "mr broadband" turnbull is rusted to fraudband

Now if only he could find something to lower the banner of that teflon foreign minister, his future is secure

 

[little graham]

Don't the coal industry get enough subsidies already?

 

[medusala]

Don't the coal industry get enough subsidies already?

Feel free to name these subsidies. Should be interesting.

 

[medusala]

While the EU carbon price was falling to circa EUR3 the alp was talking of having Oz price at > $20.

It is hard to overstate the stupidity of anyone even countenancing such a scheme.

 

[little graham]

It is hard to overstate the stupidity of anyone even countenancing such a scheme.

Did you see the news two weeks ago, South Australia put more wind and solar power into the grid, than it took out? Guess not, as you would never made this statement.

 

[medusala]

Did you see the news two weeks ago, South Australia put more wind and solar power into the grid, than it took out? Guess not, as you would never made this statement.

How is that relevant to the statement( and never mind the cost to taxpayers) The ALP talked of Australia being part of some international trading scheme. Whilst that was and is a pipedream the biggest one is the EU scheme which as everyone knows has hardly been a raging success. Yet the ALP wanted to charge Australian businesses over 5 times what the Europeans would be charged.

Economic insanity.

Abbott was completely right to get rid of it.

BTW where are all these subsidies you talk of?

 

[Ripper]

While Direct action is a crock , at least it is easily repealed , unlike us ceding power to the UN and international bakers with an ETS.

Even a Carbon tax is preferable to an ETS.

 

[little graham]

Economic insanity.

But if you source your energy from reknewables, you don't pay s**t. SA will soon have almost zero reliance on carbon. We're the driest state, on the driest contitent with harsh summers and winters. if we can do it, why can't everybody else?

Which is exactly what the carbon price was meant to do. Your just mad because it worked.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Did you see the news two weeks ago, South Australia put more wind and solar power into the grid, than it took out? Guess not, as you would never made this statement.

It's true, there was a day in October where the total of wind and solar in SA was more than the total demand. But within that day the wind and solar supply fluctuated thus requiring coal power as back up which was generated in a very inefficient way. There are also many days where the total wind and solar power came to almost nothing.

 

[little graham]

It's true, there was a day in October where the total of wind and solar in SA was more than the total demand. .

think about the money saved by not paying for carbon pollution , invested in more wind, more solar and storage techniques. Win win win scenario, unless of course your a coal baron who heavily donates to the liberal party.

 

[Lester Burnham]

think about the money saved by not paying for carbon pollution , invested in more wind, more solar and storage techniques. Win win win scenario, unless of course your a coal baron who heavily donates to the liberal party.

Except that running coal generators in an inefficient way due to the fluctuations the wind and solar generates more 'carbon pollution'.

 

[Floor Pie]

There are also many days where the total wind and solar power came to almost nothing.

I take that to mean, that there are many days where the is no wind or solar power generated.

Is that what you meant? Do you have a link?

 

[madmug]

But if you source your energy from reknewables, you don't pay s**t. SA will soon have almost zero reliance on carbon. We're the driest state, on the driest contitent with harsh summers and winters. if we can do it, why can't everybody else?

Which is exactly what the carbon price was meant to do. Your just mad because it worked.

Well you do pay as you have transmission costs. Tassie has Hydro electric power. Carbon free, Water is free, but dams & pipes & turbines & wires still cost. Its certainly better for the environment than the 50 year old dirty coal power stations on the mainland.

 

[Maggie5]

think about the money saved by not paying for carbon pollution , invested in more wind, more solar and storage techniques. Win win win scenario, unless of course your a coal baron who heavily donates to the liberal party.

And storage (batteries) technology improving all the time. Who knows what capability it will have in 5-10 years time, why not invest in that technology now?

 

[Elroo]

How is that relevant to the statement( and never mind the cost to taxpayers) The ALP talked of Australia being part of some international trading scheme. Whilst that was and is a pipedream the biggest one is the EU scheme which as everyone knows has hardly been a raging success. Yet the ALP wanted to charge Australian businesses over 5 times what the Europeans would be charged.

Economic insanity.

Abbott was completely right to get rid of it.

BTW where are all these subsidies you talk of?

$600 million in power subsidies by the Queensland taxpayers to Queensland residents and businesses in remote and regional areas so they have power price parity with residents and businesses closer to the generation plants.

$600 million in power subsidies by the WA taxpayers to WA residents and businesses in remote and regional areas so they have power price parity with residents and businesses closer to the generation plants.

That doesn't include any other state government power subsidies to remote and regional areas such as the Tasmanian islands.

 

[swingdog]

And storage (batteries) technology improving all the time. Who knows what capability it will have in 5-10 years time, why not invest in that technology now?

Ergon Energy is - they're installing battery technology in south-east Queensland to ease pressure on peak time demand.

On the vote, I'd give it to Rudd simply because he made the biggest claim, then decided to dick around playing politics and bottled it; left to Gillard to clean up his mess. Abbott is at least consistent - nobody expected him to do anything and Direct Action is a fig leaf, though to be honest I'm not sure why he's even bothering. Politically, there can't be anyone stupid enough to look at Direct Action and think "yes, that's a good idea" in terms of mitigating against climate change.

 

[Xsess]

Take a bow..... Julia - no carbon tax in any government I lead - Gillard!!

 

[Lester Burnham]

I take that to mean, that there are many days where the is no wind or solar power generated.

Is that what you meant? Do you have a link?

Refer the blue line.

http://www.pittsh.com.au/assets/files/Cedex/CEDEX Electricity Update October 2014.pdf

Do you want me to find you a chart that shows it is less sunny in winter?

 

[swingdog]

Thoug you have to give tony his due hes not nearly so personally linked to it as his predecessors, in fact it seems hes let the environment minister be well rusted to it

I'd love to be Greg Hunt's psychiatrist in about 10 years time - it's been a long time since I've seen someone sell out so completely.

 

[Maggie5]

I take that to mean, that there are many days where the is no wind or solar power generated.

Is that what you meant? Do you have a link?

No sure what the graphs will prove because even if there are days where there is no wind or solar power generated, wouldn't this then be compensated by days where an excessive amount is generated and stored? A yearly or average output would be better measure wouldn't it?

 

[little graham]

Take a bow..... Julia - no carbon tax in any government I lead - Gillard!!

There are respectable arguments for an ETS but the one Labor has in mind could easily be expensive and futile. I am wary of a system which creates new vested interests - which an ETS will do. I suspect that a straight carbon tax or charge could be more transparent and easier to change

 

[swingdog]

Beats me why Rudd never went with a low cost carbon tax tyo start with e.g. $1 per tonne to start with and then gradually increase it over time.

The heat and fury is always over new price signals; once they're in, people adjust even if the price itself changes.

 

[little graham]

No sure what the graphs will prove because even if there are days where there is no wind or solar power generated, wouldn't this then be compensated by days where an excessive amount is generated and stored? A yearly or average output would be better measure wouldn't it?

The poster posting the graph has no position other than not criticizing liberals, he's just picking holes in others because he hasn't one.

 

[Floor Pie]

Refer the blue line.

http://www.pittsh.com.au/assets/files/Cedex/CEDEX Electricity Update October 2014.pdf

Do you want me to find you a chart that shows it is less sunny in winter?

So there aren't many days where wind and solar came to almost nothing?
It was just more of your usual jabberwocky.

 

[madmug]

I'd love to be Greg Hunt's psychiatrist in about 10 years time - it's been a long time since I've seen someone sell out so completely.

He seems headed for a nervous breakdown well before then.