Analysis The Way Forward

[BloodySwan]

The middle tier needs to lift. We spent a good portion of the year finding out who our bottom 6 were. Clarke, Fox, Stephens all stepped in and we've got a solid 22. We'll have a couple go in and out but overall our 22 is in a good spot.

What needs to improve is our middle group. Parker, Mills, Papley, T. McCartin, Buddy were our best going into the season and Warner, Blakey and Florent all stepped up but the likes of Heeney, Hayward, Rowbottom, McInerney and others didn't improve enough (enough being the key word).

I really don't think this group is that far off but feel like we peaked too early. Not sure how we expected to get through with such a young core. Gulden, Warner, Stephens and McInerney all have 50 games or less. Rowbottom is the most experienced in that lot with 66 games. Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

alone has more match experience than those 5 combined.

We absolutely should be aiming for top 4 next year, but we still have a lot of development left to offer.

I'm hoping Ladhams can put pressure on Hickey and take it as his own

I'm hoping McDonald can cement a spot in the 22 and between him McLean and Amartey they really knock the door for a spot as well

I love that Clarke and Stephens have found spots, Wicks needs to apply the same pressure and work his way back in, same with Campbell.

Hayward, McInerney kinda coasted a little. I'm a big fan of both and have a lot more to offer. Hayward should be disappointed with his finals campaign and McInerney should be disappointed with his season. Both have shown to produce much more.

And finally Heeney. It's funny, he had his best season and won an All Australian jumper but he can improve so much more. I'm really looking forward to his 2023, all eyes are on Warner but Heeney is ripe to tear the league apart

 

[sataris]

Heeney is ripe to tear the league apart

This has been the case for the last 5 years.

Bit like waiting for Godot.

 

[caesar88]

The middle tier needs to lift. We spent a good portion of the year finding out who our bottom 6 were. Clarke, Fox, Stephens all stepped in and we've got a solid 22. We'll have a couple go in and out but overall our 22 is in a good spot.

What needs to improve is our middle group. Parker, Mills, Papley, T. McCartin, Buddy were our best going into the season and Warner, Blakey and Florent all stepped up but the likes of Heeney, Hayward, Rowbottom, McInerney and others didn't improve enough (enough being the key word).

I really don't think this group is that far off but feel like we peaked too early. Not sure how we expected to get through with such a young core. Gulden, Warner, Stephens and McInerney all have 50 games or less. Rowbottom is the most experienced in that lot with 66 games. Isaac Smith alone has more match experience than those 5 combined.

We absolutely should be aiming for top 4 next year, but we still have a lot of development left to offer.

I'm hoping Ladhams can put pressure on Hickey and take it as his own

I'm hoping McDonald can cement a spot in the 22 and between him McLean and Amartey they really knock the door for a spot as well

I love that Clarke and Stephens have found spots, Wicks needs to apply the same pressure and work his way back in, same with Campbell.

Hayward, McInerney kinda coasted a little. I'm a big fan of both and have a lot more to offer. Hayward should be disappointed with his finals campaign and McInerney should be disappointed with his season. Both have shown to produce much more.

And finally Heeney. It's funny, he had his best season and won an All Australian jumper but he can improve so much more. I'm really looking forward to his 2023, all eyes are on Warner but Heeney is ripe to tear the league apart

With all due respect I feel like this is a weird assessment, with categorisations that are a bit all over the shop.

Heeney was one of only two All Australians we had this year, yet he didn't improve enough while Parker who is captain and reigning B&F winner didn't even make the All Australian squad and only finished one place ahead of Heeney in the B&F, was one of our best?

Florent is considered to have stepped up because he played his role, albeit without starring, but Hayward who played his role, albeit without starring, didn't improve enough?

Buddy amongst our best, despite not making top 10 in our B&F? Hayward cops it for his finals series but not the most experienced and reputable player on our list?

Blakey, who didn't make the top 10 in the B&F, stepped up, but Rowbottom, who finished top 3 in the B&F, ahead of literally all of the above players, didn't improve enough?

We peaked too early, yet we were 8th on the ladder in round 16 but ultimately finished 3rd by season's end? (If you are talking about peaking too early within the context of the finals series, then on that I would agree.)

Not having a go at you btw, I agree with some of your points and your overall optimism about the future, just seems like you're judging some way harsher than others with standards that seem a bit inconsistent.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Heeney do more!!#$%@

Parker do more!!$#$%@

Franklin do more!!$#$%@

There fixed the problems at the club should be a stellar 2023 season.

In all seriousness this is Reid career history so i hope he gets close to 20 games again in 2023 but it has me worried.



Hickey another season has me worried as does Franklin 23 rounds is gruelling at the wrong side of 30.

Francis i think is just Paddy insurance as you know he is a week to week proposition god forbid all it would take is a unlucky headknock or collision

Its just mind exhausting to think about getting back to the position again we were this year i really hope the coaching staff drilled into the heads of our players what a opportunity was lost 2 weeks ago should we be lucky again to get another chance.

 

[caesar88]

Heeney do more!!#$%@

Parker do more!!$#$%@

Franklin do more!!$#$%@

There fixed the problems at the club should be a stellar 2023 season.

In all seriousness this is Reid career history so i hope he gets close to 20 games again in 2023 but it has me worried.

View attachment 1528571

Hickey another season has me worried as does Franklin 23 rounds is gruelling at the wrong side of 30.

Francis i think is just Paddy insurance as you know he is a week to week proposition god forbid all it would take is a unlucky headknock or collision

Its just mind exhausting to think about getting back to the position again we were this year i really hope the coaching staff drilled into the heads of our players what a opportunity was lost 2 weeks ago should we be lucky again to get another chance.

I'm no senior coach or AFL expert but I'm not sure that "opportunity lost" would be the framing I'd use. All that would achieve is further deflating the spirit of the players and reinforcing how seemingly insurmountable the challenge ahead of them is.

"Opportunity gained" is more what I'd hope Horse & co go with. What did you boys learn out of that game and how are you gonna make sure it doesn't happen again? Etc.

 

[KingV23]

Heeney do more!!#$%@

Parker do more!!$#$%@

Franklin do more!!$#$%@

There fixed the problems at the club should be a stellar 2023 season.

In all seriousness this is Reid career history so i hope he gets close to 20 games again in 2023 but it has me worried.

View attachment 1528571

Hickey another season has me worried as does Franklin 23 rounds is gruelling at the wrong side of 30.

Francis i think is just Paddy insurance as you know he is a week to week proposition god forbid all it would take is a unlucky headknock or collision

Its just mind exhausting to think about getting back to the position again we were this year i really hope the coaching staff drilled into the heads of our players what a opportunity was lost 2 weeks ago should we be lucky again to get another chance.

Based on Sam Reid's history, I think Amartey or McLean will have an increase in game time next season.

 

[sataris]

In all seriousness this is Reid career history so i hope he gets close to 20 games again in 2023 but it has me worried.

View attachment 1528571

Made a GF in 2016 with Reid playing exactly 0 games, so I'm not that worried about Reid tbh

 

[kickthething]

I'm no senior coach or AFL expert but I'm not sure that "opportunity lost" would be the framing I'd use. All that would achieve is further deflating the spirit of the players and reinforcing how seemingly insurmountable the challenge ahead of them is.

"Opportunity gained" is more what I'd hope Horse & co go with. What did you boys learn out of that game and how are you gonna make sure it doesn't happen again? Etc.

Parker coined the phrase "Start of the comeback" i didn't mind that...

 

[SwansProudly]

Perhaps the club needs to look at Dangerfield consulting with Dr Michael Gervais, who worked closely with the NFL’s Seahawks.

He’s got a podcast called Finding Mastery, and he talks about the moment and not building up to be any bigger than what it actually is,” Dangerfield said.

“At the end of the day, it’s another moment. He’s a US guy and spending time and chatting with him was brilliant, not that you view the game differently, but you view it as just another moment. So, you understand what it is, and we understand as a team and individually it’s a game we want to win, but it’s just another game.

Dangerfield turns to NFL psychologist to ease finals stress

Patrick Dangerfield has sought help from a high-performance psychologist who has worked with the Seattle Seahawks to help him deal with September pressure.

www.theage.com.au

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Perhaps the club needs to look at Dangerfield consulting with Dr Michael Gervais, who worked closely with the NFL’s Seahawks.

Dangerfield turns to NFL psychologist to ease finals stress

Patrick Dangerfield has sought help from a high-performance psychologist who has worked with the Seattle Seahawks to help him deal with September pressure.

www.theage.com.au

If it worked for Danger, it's definitely worth investigating. Danger has some finals demons, but I must say, this finals series, it was like watching regular Danger really rising to the occasion, where the old Danger would have tried too hard and end up getting in his own way.

I guess they couldn't afford to send Rohan along with him.

 

[Superstar swan]

I'd like to see amartey really get a push. Start him as nunber 1 ruck next year see how he goes for thre first month.

Been on the list for a while now and coming in for 1 or 2 weeks at a time as a forward isn't helping. He is a great athlete with a mature body and plenty of untapped potential.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Anyone else see Buddy out of the side by round 7ish? I think he's gonna fall off a cliff next year tbh

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

We really have our work cut out to just maintain our position let alone go one step further.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

We really have our work cut out to just maintain our position let alone go one step further.

Eh, the only team below us within striking distance who's actually getting better is Richmond. Melbourne are kind of a mess, Collingwood are going backwards to save a few bucks, and Freo are tanking all their depth to get a 2nd ruck. Plus let's not forget Carlton haven't done s**t either, just got Acres and his maddening inconsistency

 

[Kiama Chris]

Eh, the only team below us within striking distance who's actually getting better is Richmond. Melbourne are kind of a mess, Collingwood are going backwards to save a few bucks, and Freo are tanking all their depth to get a 2nd ruck. Plus let's not forget Carlton haven't done s**t either, just got Acres and his maddening inconsistency

Brisbane consolidating OK, but as you say, a lot of the activity is unlikely to push others above us. Press frenzy.

 

[Maximumlnsanity]

Brisbane consolidating OK, but as you say, a lot of the activity is unlikely to push others above us. Press frenzy.

I'm not stressed about Brisbane, they're still not as good as everyone thinks and just lost McStay

 

[Wolftone]

The discussion is headed this way so I thought I’d open the batting.

1. Ruck. As an old midfielder, this is just so important. Presuming there’s no secret Grundy play we need to extend Naismith. He’s easily the best tap ruckman on our list and the fact that we’re in the mix says it’s a risk worth taking. Ladhams is No.3 and should earn it. I’m filthy on him right now.

2. Forwards. McDonald out of the square. Reid/Amartey the foils. Buddy nowhere near the forward 30m. He can rotate with Hayward and Heeney on the flanks.

3. Backs. The brothers should improve again next year. Tom is a kid and Paddy may as well be. The Cleaner as backup. I think Lloyd is going so Campbell, Blakey, and Florent to be the attacking force. Rampe and Fox to do what they do.

4. Mids. I think we’re short one. A brute. That was Kennedy. We have Parker. We need one more. That one touch player who can stand in a tackle. A grand final tackle. That’s the missing link.

5. Soldiers. We’re good for soldiers. Clarke, Bell, Wicks, Cunningham plus the junior burgers is a good mix.

Conclusion. We need another big bodied brutal midfielder. And now.

I think we need another ruck. McAndrew needs to develop rather quickly if Ladhams continues on his destructive path. Big Sammy is 30, turns 31 next year. That is getting to the end. I know rucks tend to have a few more years than the average player but he has got probably 2-4 years, if injury does not cruel him.

I agree with the big boddied mid. We were desperately missing that in the GF. Someone to stand up and say eff you. I have an out of left field suggestion. I think Gould will be a fine 3rd defender but what about trying him in the mids? He is the strongest player on the list. Grew up kicking bags of chaff over the barn. He is a huge kick and his 60 metre passes generally find a host. I saw, him burst out of fullback with two players hanging off him run dragging them for a few metres then handball to a runner going past. The umpire rightly let play go because at no time was he impeded.

There is always room for improvement and the GF showed many the ways we need to improve. But it was the younger players who stood up not the senior players. The là is a worry. I also think Sam Reid was obviously not right from the start and the players knew it. Very early they put the ball to him on several occasions and he was way behind his opponent by the time the ball got there. I think heads dropped then. There is an old saying: Never Take An Injured Player, Even a Doubtful One, I to a GF. Longmire has ignored this on 3 occasions. Enough said.



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[Wolftone]

The discussion is headed this way so I thought I’d open the batting.

1. Ruck. As an old midfielder, this is just so important. Presuming there’s no secret Grundy play we need to extend Naismith. He’s easily the best tap ruckman on our list and the fact that we’re in the mix says it’s a risk worth taking. Ladhams is No.3 and should earn it. I’m filthy on him right now.

2. Forwards. McDonald out of the square. Reid/Amartey the foils. Buddy nowhere near the forward 30m. He can rotate with Hayward and Heeney on the flanks.

3. Backs. The brothers should improve again next year. Tom is a kid and Paddy may as well be. The Cleaner as backup. I think Lloyd is going so Campbell, Blakey, and Florent to be the attacking force. Rampe and Fox to do what they do.

4. Mids. I think we’re short one. A brute. That was Kennedy. We have Parker. We need one more. That one touch player who can stand in a tackle. A grand final tackle. That’s the missing link.

5. Soldiers. We’re good for soldiers. Clarke, Bell, Wicks, Cunningham plus the junior burgers is a good mix.

Conclusion. We need another big bodied brutal midfielder. And now.

Lloydy signed on. Wonderful

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[SeanM]

Initially I don't think there will be too much energy focused on how to prepare for future grand finals.

It is hard enough to get through the regular season. And then be able to win a few finals games to make a grand final.

I think we need to take one step at a time. Initial focus should be about having a good start to the season, win games and eventually make the finals. I feel it is dangerous to have too much focus on the 2023 grand final.

 

[kelpie_X]

If it worked for Danger, it's definitely worth investigating. Danger has some finals demons, but I must say, this finals series, it was like watching regular Danger really rising to the occasion, where the old Danger would have tried too hard and end up getting in his own way.

I guess they couldn't afford to send Rohan along with him.

He didn't have to try too hard against what was put up in front of him

 

[Wolftone]

Forward line and how we structure up

KPF is another issue

I believe firmly retaining Buddy is not such a good move. He did nothing in the GF. In fact, the finals were a washout. Only the Pies game did he do anything and that was due to rotten Pies match ups. He is restricting the development of our young key forwards by just being deep on the forward line and bering the main player. We could have scored far more by not going to him so many times this year.

Structure is a good call. Franklin deep forward is not really working. I am not sure our forward line can even work properly with him there. If things continue as they are we will lose Mcdonald and that would be a disaster. He has only signed for 2. I believe if he had been given more responsibility and was more of a target he would have signed for 3 or 4.

The midfield structure leaves us very vulnerable. We leave one player free on their defensive side and have one free ourselves. This is OK if you win the hit outs 70% of the time and put the ball to our players at least 60% of the time. But if you don't you are vulnerable to being badly punished by the opposition. In several matches this was a issue. Cripps & Walsh, the GF, the last half of the Pies final, the Essendon game.

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[Wolftone]

Buddy is a real conundrum

He had a horrible finals series. Game against pies was grossly overrated

I totally agree. I thought his ego overrode his capabilities

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[Wolftone]

If Naismith is the answer to our ruck then let's just all give up and go home.

He has played about 30 games in 10 years, is 30, has done 2 ACLs and a multitude of other injuries and is about as athletic as an oldie with a Zimmer frame. His stats are actually worse than Sinclair's and other then his tap work (was it really that good or was it more he had JPK, Hanners and Jack in their primes around him), offers zero around the park. Blicavs and Stanley would've smashed his arse around the park yesterday and Hawkins would've snapped him in 2.

Personally I would not offer him a contract, be that AFL or VFL. But if there are still some within the club holding a flame for him, give him a VFL gig, see how he goes for the first half of 2023 and if he's presenting the ball on a silver platter for the VFL mids, then sign him in the mid-season draft. And at that point, I'll happily eat a big serving of humble pie.

He was presenting the ball on splatter to those mids. His tập work is elite. Hawkind would have snapped him in two? Bullshit. He proved, when he did play in 2016 that he was more than a match with Hawkins at his best. Hawkins is now a fading star and Hickey was far too easily moved by him. That was probably because he was exhausted. Ladhams & Reid have a lot to answer for.

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[Wolftone]

Naismith has played 2 games in 5 years,

and 30 in 9 years

sorry thats enough risk, I would want to be bloody sure he can hold up before giving him another cent, also given its basically half a decade since he played the idea he is some magical tap ruckman seems miles off, He has played some ok footy years ago, but we really havent seen anything to suggest he is capable of it, especially body wise. with him and Sinclair basically gone we do need some ruck depth though.

Buddy cant play out of the goal square/deep forward unless he clunks some marks, seems unlikely, I think let him roam, and just manage him, no good him being *ed physically in September.

Heeney isnt a midfielder bar a pinch hit, just build forwards around him and use his skills.

Hayward papley mcdonald franklin with him,

Mclean Armatey who knows


Gould has to develop, we need someone like him, still a spot for melican if he can actually take it.


Need the strength in the middle I agree



Mostly I do believe in yesterdays team as a rule though, just lacking tall reliable depth

I think Melican might leave.

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[Wolftone]

His tapwork reputation is based on some clearance numbers half a decade ago, hes probably made 1.5 million plus for 30 games

He's on Rookie wages

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