Tom Boyd vs Jesse Hogan

[Demonheart]

Wrong, Caro said we are paying Griffen 800k next year and 100k in 2017. If we didn't pay Griffen's contract then we would be severely undercap next year with Cooney and Higgins also leaving who were on good coin themselves and Matt Boyd took a pay cut to be on minimal terms just to stay on the list.

We will be able to go into 2016 paying 105% and we should have money to pay the upcoming kids what they are worth from 2017 onwards as Morris and Murphy will probably retire by 2016 and who knows about Minson.

Woah. Matt Boyd took a pay cut to stay on the list yet the doggies are paying part of Griffen's to get them up to the salary cap?

WTF. That's FUBAR

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Woah. Matt Boyd took a pay cut to stay on the list yet the doggies are paying part of Griffen's to get them up to the salary cap?

WTF. That's FUBAR

Boyd's 2015 contract was finalised long before Griffen threw the toys out of the cot.

 

[Demonheart]

Boyd's 2015 contract was finalised long before Griffen threw the toys out of the cot.

So? Renegotiate Boyd's contract and don't pay Griffen as much.

Unless of course the doggies got rolled and didn't actually have a choice and they're now using the salary cap figures as a smoke screen.

To force your players to take a pay cut and have the highest paid player at the club playing for a different team is ****ed.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

So? Renegotiate Boyd's contract and don't pay Griffen as much.

Unless of course the doggies got rolled and didn't actually have a choice and they're now using the salary cap figures as a smoke screen.

To force your players to take a pay cut and have the highest paid player at the club playing for a different team is ******.

How do you know that's not happening? It's also worth noting that Boyd's contract was signed before the departures of not only Griffen, but also Cooney, Higgins, Jones and Tutt.

The Dogs have agreed to pay a percentage of Griffen's salary over the four years, and as per AFL rules, it'll be frontloaded into 2015.

It's not ideal brand-wise, but it's a means to an end - we simply weren't going to meet the salary cap floor otherwise. The likes of Stringer and Macrae are already being paid handsomely, and Bontempelli and Tom Boyd can't get a boost until 2016. They're paid varying amounts in differing years, it's just how the cap is structured.

It'll only affect how people perceive the club, so long as the media keep repeating it. The players don't care, they understand how the system works - as do people that bother to educate themselves before hitting the keyboards to criticise the club.

 

[Demonheart]

It'll only affect how people perceive the club, so long as the media keep repeating it. The players don't care, they understand how the system works - as do people that bother to educate themselves before hitting the keyboards to criticise the club.

I'll use your own question for yourself. How do you know that's not happening?

The Doggies told everyone that they were a stable club and everyone was moving in the same direction, couple of weeks later they lose the coach and captain.

The question remains. If, as you say, the doggies were having trouble meeting the salary cap why the hell did Matt Boyd have to take a pay cut to stay on the list?

 

[doggies ftw]

I'll use your own question for yourself. How do you know that's not happening?

The Doggies told everyone that they were a stable club and everyone was moving in the same direction, couple of weeks later they lose the coach and captain.

The question remains. If, as you say, the doggies were having trouble meeting the salary cap why the hell did Matt Boyd have to take a pay cut to stay on the list?

Because we were trying to push him off the list full stop, obviously losing so much experience he becomes much much more valuable next year but I think you'll find a hell of a lot of doggies supporters were hoping he'd retire before this all went down to be honest.

 

[Demonheart]

Because we were trying to push him off the list full stop, obviously losing so much experience he becomes much much more valuable next year but I think you'll find a hell of a lot of doggies supporters were hoping he'd retire before this all went down to be honest.

Yeah...nah. Doesn't make sense in the context of this discussion.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I'll use your own question for yourself. How do you know that's not happening?

The Doggies told everyone that they were a stable club and everyone was moving in the same direction, couple of weeks later they lose the coach and captain.

The question remains. If, as you say, the doggies were having trouble meeting the salary cap why the hell did Matt Boyd have to take a pay cut to stay on the list?

Because I've spoken to the players and administrators when I've had the opportunity, and I'm more than comfortable with their responses. They aren't meatheads. They know where they stand and how the salary cap will be structured. They're upset that Griffen is gone, but they'd know better than anyone that the club is not to blame.

The question was already answered for you. They weren't having trouble meeting the cap when Boyd's contract was signed! Following the finalisation of that contract, three players that were being paid very well departed, to be replaced by draftees on the base wage. Boyd initially took a pay cut to stay on because the club evidently didn't intend to retain him - in retrospect, it's fortunate that they did.

 

[doggies ftw]

Yeah...nah. Doesn't make sense in the context of this discussion.

Ah... what?

 

[Demonheart]

Because I've spoken to the players and administrators when I've had the opportunity, and I'm more than comfortable with their responses. They aren't meatheads. They know where they stand and how the salary cap will be structured. They're upset that Griffen is gone, but they'd know better than anyone that the club is not to blame.

The question was already answered for you. They weren't having trouble meeting the cap when Boyd's contract was signed! Following the finalisation of that contract, three players that were being paid very well departed, to be replaced by draftees on the base wage. Boyd initially took a pay cut to stay on because the club evidently didn't intend to retain him - in retrospect, it's fortunate that they did.

You expect the players to tell a supporter the truth?

 

[Trav 20]

This was the 17 year old version. The 20 year old version will be unleashed on the competition soon.

 

[The Dr]

This was the 17 year old version. The 20 year old version will be unleashed on the competition soon.

The Sun listed him as 195cm, 101kg earlier this week. That's massive. Coupled with the fact he came fourth in the 3km time trial for 1-4 year players recently... that's a scary athletic package.

Fingers crossed he stays fit and we can watch him play this year

 

[Trav 20]

The Sun listed him as 195cm, 101kg earlier this week. That's massive. Coupled with the fact he came fourth in the 3km time trial for 1-4 year players recently... that's a scary athletic package.

Fingers crossed he stays fit and we can watch him play this year

And he runs 20 metres in 3 seconds flat.

I think his impact is underestimated. Being fit is obviously the key.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

And he runs 20 metres in 3 seconds flat.

I think his impact is underestimated. Being fit is obviously the key.

Back stress fractures are never easy to come back from.

I'm hoping he does.

 

[doggies ftw]

And he runs 20 metres in 3 seconds flat.

I think his impact is underestimated. Being fit is obviously the key.

What impact is underestimated? He hasn't played a game yet.

No doubt he's a fantastic prospect though

 

[Trav 20]

What impact is underestimated? He hasn't played a game yet.

No doubt he's a fantastic prospect though

The impact I believe he'll have on our playing fortunes.

I accept that plenty of people will equivocate on prospects until they actually see a player "do it" at the highest level. Anything else is just hype or unsubstantiated hyperbole. I get that. You need to see it. But I am utterly certain that Hogan will impact games of footy and regularly impact quarters from next year; and that our playing stocks will rise accordingly with his presence and output.

I fully understand why others need to see it before agreeing, but I've watched this game long enough to know when a "real one" is about to enter the fray.

 

[ManOfClay]

Loving the "ooh he had big muscles as a kid so he must be good"

 

[The Dr]

Loving the "ooh he had big muscles as a kid so he must be good"

You're not excited about Boyd's physical stature as a key forward?

 

[drummond2fevola]

Melbourne need something to pin their hopes on after all of their failed high draft picks.

 

[Carlo]

They'll both be guns especially Boyd but especially Hogan.

 

[Dogsman16]

You're not excited about Boyd's physical stature as a key forward?

Tom's far too heavy at the moment blew out to 109kg which is way to big for an 18 year old. Needs to lose more than 5kg to get the mobility and endurance back.

 

[Trav 20]

Loving the "ooh he had big muscles as a kid so he must be good"

No, he's good, because he's great. Packing the frame onto talent rounds out the picture and helps make him what he is and what he'll become.

As a bottom aged 17 year old he dominated Australia's best kids, who were a year older; then as an 18 year old he dominated men on his way to win Casey's B&F from only 13 full games.

Even at NAB Cup level he looked super duper before his first game at VFL level.

He's rolled gold, Son.

 

[ManOfClay]

You're not excited about Boyd's physical stature as a key forward?

Not in the almost homoerotic way some Demons fans seem to be about Hogan. And not to the point of overrating him based on his junior achievements or achievements on a lesser level.

We're yet to see whether this big body of Hogan's is actually capable of lasting out a season at AFL level

 

[saintbill]

No, he's good, because he's great. Packing the frame onto talent rounds out the picture and helps make him what he is and what he'll become.

As a bottom aged 17 year old he dominated Australia's best kids, who were a year older; then as an 18 year old he dominated men on his way to win Casey's B&F from only 13 full games.

Even at NAB Cup level he looked super duper before his first game at VFL level.

He's rolled gold, Son.

From a neutral supporter, I would have to agree winning the Casey B & F as an 18 year old is an incredible effort and very exciting for Dees fans. I watched Hogan play a couple of times in the VFL and he was rag dolling Zebras defenders pretty easily. I would take Hogan over Boyd any day of the week.

We all know talls take longer, but very little seems to have being said about just how poor a year Boyd just had. This is a guy we were told 12 months ago was the best big man to be drafted in years. Fast forward 12 months and he has shown absolutely no signs that he can dominate at VFL standard let alone AFL standard. In fact I would argue he has shown no signs he can dominate at NEAFL level. 21 goals in 11 games in the NEAFL, would have me real concerned if I was a Doggies supporter. Jed Lamb kicked more than that running around the midfield. For what it is worth we picked up a nice little player for free who just happened to kick 48 in 17 games in the same league. His price tag is also about $1m a year less

Not trying to be a smart arse her, I get why Doggies did why they did. However, it doesn't change my view that Boyd is insanely overrated at this point. I am sure he will become a good to possible even great player, however Dogs supporters are talking about him like he is the guaranteed best forward in the game for the next decade. All things equal with injuries, he isn't, nor will he ever be a better player than Cameron or Hogan for that matter.

 

[ManOfClay]

For what it is worth we picked up a nice little player for free who just happened to kick 48 in 17 games in the same league. His price tag is also about $1m a year less

The thing is big men take time and Boyd has a lot of scope to develop, which he more than likely will. That's why we had to trade big for him. Meanwhile Membrey is a tweener who was delisted. He doesn't really have a role at AFL level.

Membrey is a dime-a-dozen type at state league level - guys with good skill but are too small to make it at the top rung by the way they play. It's why he was a late draft pick for Sydney who was ultimately let go cheaply.