Unpopular Basketball Opinions

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jod23 said:
Isiah was definitely robbed. You can say he was on the decline which he was but after MJ, Bird and Magic. It was pretty much Isiah and Chuck as the biggest stars in basketball. Even on the decline too, he was a player who has special qualities which you could show off to the world.

John Stockton is solid but he wasnt the guy you wanted on that team. That was supposed to be Isiah, lightning quick, could score from anywhere and quickly, could make outrageous entertaining passes. Loved to run the break like Magic at pace. Stockton was a completely different PG.

Isiah deserved to be on that team and everybody knows it. You can argue his play didnt deserve if you just brush over Magic and Bird. Magic has retired and Bird was just a shell of himself. Isiah was still playing pretty well compared to those two guys.

We all know he deserved it and we all know why he didnt make the team.
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You has MJ, Chuck and a whole raft of guys who could score on that team, what you needed was someone to pass the ball to them, therefore Stockton was perfect.

It's contentious that he was even in the top 11 players at the time so it's hardly like he was robbed
 
fidstar said:
Once again, interesting stuff, but you are relying on PER as the means of who is a better. While it is a good measure, it's not the only one.

I mean last year Brook Lopez had a better PER than Westbrook, Curry, Griffen, Dirk, Harden, Jefferson, Aldridge, George (this list could go on...)

Also I never really got the College player thing. Also not sure why it wasn't Shaq (I'm sure there is a reason).
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Google laettner duke game winner. There's your reason, he was the poster boy of the NCAA at the time
 

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jod23 said:
John Stockton is solid but he wasnt the guy you wanted on that team.
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Umm, yes he was. Stockton was clearly the best PG in the world at that time.

If anything, Thomas is the exact type of guy you don't want on that team. A headstrong, me-first alpha dog who doesn't play well with others unless they're letting him be the leader and the star of the show. The Dream Team didn't need that, they needed someone who could get everyone the ball and make everything tick along like clockwork, and Stockton is/was arguably better at that than anyone in the history of basketball.

fidstar said:
Once again, interesting stuff, but you are relying on PER as the means of who is a better. While it is a good measure, it's not the only one.
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I know that, I'm just offering that perspective on it. Provides a bit more context than going off of highlights or vague memories/unseen hearsay from 20+ years ago.

fidstar said:
I mean last year Brook Lopez had a better PER than Westbrook, Curry, Griffen, Dirk, Harden, Jefferson, Aldridge, George (this list could go on...)
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Small sample size. Lopez played just 17 games last year.

You don't just blindly look at these numbers without factoring in some minutes/games qualifiers. In that sense, Lopez wouldn't even be on the radar when looking at top players from last season.

fidstar said:
Also I never really got the College player thing. Also not sure why it wasn't Shaq (I'm sure there is a reason).
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Laettner was one of the greatest college players ever, a Senior, coming off of two straight National Championships.
 
Damon_3388 said:
Umm, yes he was. Stockton was clearly the best PG in the world at that time.

If anything, Thomas is the exact type of guy you don't want on that team. A headstrong, me-first alpha dog who doesn't play well with others unless they're letting him be the leader and the star of the show. The Dream Team didn't need that, they needed someone who could get everyone the ball and make everything tick along like clockwork, and Stockton is/was arguably better at that than anyone in the history of basketball.
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You're basically talking about everyone that was on the team (bar maybe Stockton, Pippen and Mullins). They were all alpha dogs.

I don't have a problem with Stockton pick btw. Think he is horribly underrated as an all time great.



Damon_3388 said:
Small sample size. Lopez played just 17 games last year.

You don't just blindly look at these numbers without factoring in some minutes/games qualifiers. In that sense, Lopez wouldn't even be on the radar when looking at top players from last season.
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Fair call, but if you run down the list from last season, you wouldn't say it was in order of best to worst, even allowing for cutting out the guys playing less than 50 games. It is one of the better ranking systems though.




Damon_3388 said:
Laettner was one of the greatest college players ever, a Senior, coming off of two straight National Championships.
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Being that Shaq was a undisputed number one pick only weeks before the Olympics and Laettner only went at number 3, I stand by my statement. Laettner was an awesome college player though.
 
Damon_3388 said:
"LeBron is not a big time volume scorer"

He is #3 all time (behind Wilt and Jordan) in PPG average...
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True but he hasnt had his old age dip yet. His numbers will fall as he gets older like every player. So that average is going to suffer by the time he is done. Ill be very surprised if he stays 3rd all time for PPG by the end of his career.

But it's not just numbers, it's just the ability to score big and at any time. The ability to be completely unstoppable. Where you just cant stop him from scoring. He just doesnt have that in him. He is a good scorer and some nights he will have big games. Score 50 etc but to me, just from watching him LeBron James isnt a natural scorer if you will. I dont know how to explain it.

Best way I can explain it maybe is like Jamal Crawford v LeBron. To me if you look at the two, Jamal Crawford is a high volume scorer. A natural scorer. He doesnt average 27ppg over his career like LeBron, he doesnt have as many 40 point games or 50 point games but Crawford is an out and out fill it up scorer.

I always see LeBron as more like a playmaker. He can definitely score. But I see him as an all round player. Can score, pass, rebound, defend. He does everything really well without being an outstanding scorer if you know what I mean.

I dont know, hard to explain.

High volume scorers for me are guys like Jordan, Wilt, West, Dominique, Kobe, K.Malone, AI, Baylor, Gervin, Durant, Melo. Guys like that. Plenty of other high volume scorers who are not stars like your Jamal Crawford's and even a guy like Chris Copeland who can just fill it up, he is a natural scorer, s**t at a lot of other stuff haha. Or a Mitch Richmond. Guy's like that. Who didnt do a lot of other stuff, Reggie Miller was probably another.

But LeBron can do it all so obviously a far better player than guys like Richmond or Miller just to me, he doesnt come across like a natural scorer.

Umm how else can I describe it. Like I could watch a Cleveland game and think LeBron could go for 40 today. Or he could have one of those 14 point games where he also has 8 assists and 12 rebounds. Whereas with say Jordan. Well every night, you knew he was getting 30. Someway, somehow, he was gonna get 30. Wilt was unstoppable. You knew he was scoring every night. Kobe is the same, massive chucker nowadays but anyway you look at it, Kobe is gonna score at a high volume.

I dont get that with LeBron. Am I making any sense. Probably not.
 
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I do think LeBron is underrated as a pure scorer. I mean he has a career average of 27.5ppg. You've talked about the 'old age drop off factor', which is true.

But Iverson maxed out at a career average of 28ppg, before finishing at 26.6ppg
Dominique maxed out at 26.5 before finishing at 24.8
Kobe is currently 25.5 (his max)
Karl Malone maxed out at 26.2ppg

So basically other than Jordan he has been able to put it in the hoop as well as anyone to a certain point of his career.

Having said that, when watching LeBron you do get that feeling he is holding something back offensively, despite his numbers. You never had that feeling with Jordan, Kobe or Dominique.
 
I think it's the fact that LeBron goes through stages in games where he would rather play second fiddle and create for others.

Not many others ever did that really.
 
fidstar said:
I do think LeBron is underrated as a pure scorer. I mean he has a career average of 27.5ppg. You've talked about the 'old age drop off factor', which is true.

But Iverson maxed out at a career average of 28ppg, before finishing at 26.6ppg
Dominique maxed out at 26.5 before finishing at 24.8
Kobe is currently 25.5 (his max)
Karl Malone maxed out at 26.2ppg

So basically other than Jordan he has been able to put it in the hoop as well as anyone to a certain point of his career.

Having said that, when watching LeBron you do get that feeling he is holding something back offensively, despite his numbers. You never had that feeling with Jordan, Kobe or Dominique.
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I dont think he is holding back, it just isnt there. Maybe the word I was looking for was instinct. He doenst have the offensive instincts of the truly great high volume scorers.

Like say if LeBron is bringing the ball up with your team down 1 with 10 seconds to go. He is looking around, looking to make a play. He might take the shot but he is looking for teammates, looking to maybe pass also. Whereas guys like AI, Jordan, Kobe, Melo... the pure scorers, all they are thinking is, imma get a bucket right now and win the game.

Is that good or bad? Some say good cos LeBron is thinking team ball, is a teammate open, can I make a pass. Some say bad, no guts, doesnt want to take the final shot. LeBron gets criticised with whatever he does so it's tough on him.

But for me, he isnt a natural scorer.
 

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jod23 said:
I dont know how unpopular this is either but I dont think OKC make the playoffs this season. The West is too strong and they will be too far back by the time Westbrook and Durant come back.
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That's more common sense than unpopular tbh
 
Hey guys

Thought I'd weigh in on the lebron discussion.

I have been a nba nerd for about 25 years!

Lebron is possibly the greatest athlete to ever play the game. His physicality and versatility is just off the charts.

Regarding the debate if he is a natural scorer or not I think it's the role you want the player to fill. If you put him on any team and just said hey score as much as you can in 20 mins of court time... I'm pretty sure he could score 20+ every single night. That would probably make it easier for us to term him a natural scorer. But does that translate to wins? No it doesn't. Jamal can score as much as he wants but it doesn't mean you win and as we know cships are what it's all about.

Someone mentioned MJ being a natural scorer and it's definitely true he could put up big numbers but don't forget he had plenty of 7 for 25 nights ie he took a lot of shots. But the diff between MJ and say Richmond or reggie or Jamal is that MJ was one of the best defenders at 2 guard the game has ever seen.

And another thing it's chris mullin not Mullins! Even guys on the nba dream team called him Mullins for some reason!
 
DangerSloane said:
Its still unpopular, but I still think Bledsoe is the best PG on the Suns roster.
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Yeah, nah. He's definitely a starting-calibre point guard, just not ahead of or in tandem with Goran Dragic. I feel having to work together is holding both of them back, especially Dragic.

On that note, Isaiah Thomas was one of the most puzzling and pointless signings of the off-season. The Suns genuinely did not need him, especially after drafting Tyler Ennis in the top 20, too. They've basically got four starting PGs on their roster, with only one ball and 48 minutes to go around at the position.
 
Damon_3388 said:
Actually came in to say that I don't think Durant should come back for another 2-3 weeks. He and the team would know better than I do, but foot injuries are extremely dicey, and you wouldn't want him to come back too early and re-injure it.
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Yeah I was surprised that KD is back so early too. Surely you ride Westbrook to keep you alive now he is back and give Durant another couple of weeks.
 
Damon_3388 said:
Yeah, nah. He's definitely a starting-calibre point guard, just not ahead of or in tandem with Goran Dragic. I feel having to work together is holding both of them back, especially Dragic.

On that note, Isaiah Thomas was one of the most puzzling and pointless signings of the off-season. The Suns genuinely did not need him, especially after drafting Tyler Ennis in the top 20, too. They've basically got four starting PGs on their roster, with only one ball and 48 minutes to go around at the position.
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I agree totally with ur theory. Both of them are being held back by the fact that they play with each other on the court, and also they hvae a quality 3rd PG.
At another team I really think Bledsoe could flourish and be a top 5 PG in the league.

But hey thats what hte thread is for....
 
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