Caligo
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Yep. It really comes down to whether you value general skills or marking ability. Both very reasonable views.
Who is the best Ruckman of the 21st Century?
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Dirty Bird
Pokémon Master
I don't know
I can't see the future.
I can't see the future.
Sandilands criminally underrated to not get a vote so far, but gotta agree with the order.
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Gawn is one of the most overrated players of the last 10 years.
An absolute liability with his kicking (both field and set shot).
Blows my mind how many ways he seems to be able to find to commit a clanger.
An absolute liability with his kicking (both field and set shot).
Blows my mind how many ways he seems to be able to find to commit a clanger.
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Well I looked at Sam Jacobs numbers in a Certain period. Specifically 2012-17.
I saw some of Same Jacobs numbers. Got 800 hitouts in one season.
Saying that.... I remember Hayden Ballantyne getting a forward pocket spot over Eddie Betts in 2014. I think Freo making finals and Crows not making finals played a part in that.
If thats the case, Sam Jacobs best chances of making the AA best 22 would of been 2012, 2015, 2016 and 2017 as crows made finals in all those years. 2012 had Dean Cox and Nic Nat. one got the ruck spot the other got a spot in the forward line.
I just Looked up Todd Goldstein. Shocked he only made AA best 22 in 2015. I thought he made it more than once.
Cox was phenomenal. The agility & footskills second to none
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Brodie Grundy in 2024, according to the media
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Yep but can only vote for the best
Sandi was awesome a legend of the anchors most pure tap ruckman you can get
I'd probably say by the end of his career Gawn might edge out Cox particularly if he has another strong 1-2 seasons.
But I could make an argument for either and right now maybe would just nudge towards Cox, until these next few years take place for Gawn.
But I could make an argument for either and right now maybe would just nudge towards Cox, until these next few years take place for Gawn.
Will be interesting to see if he bounces back. The season with Melbourne, his confidence would have taken a hit. But he'll be top dog again at Sydney and have a point to prove.
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I think he will, seems like the perfect environment for him.
Top dog in a big market but also can live normally without the hassle of vic media and punters.
It looks like melb have a big lads culture punting punching and pissing on
Don’t know Grundy but doesn’t look like the type
Young Redleg
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Nah he's nowhere near as overrated as Nic Nat was.
PowerfulPies2023
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Not one vote for Mumford …. Not a sausage
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Peter Moore and Jimmy Stynes in particular say hi.
Carbine Chaos
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Dean Cox, was like having an extra midfielder. His foot skills and aerobic capacity for a big man were such an asset.
Brendon Lade the most underrated.
Brendon Lade the most underrated.
Unfortunately TI is not from the era discussed in this thread, but a fair margin in front of Cox ( best of this lot ).
Having said that, Cox was a far better umpire than TI.
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I like Cox, and I'm not ashamed to admit it
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I am glad you are comfortable being open about it as I feel like in the mid 2000's it was only West Coast fans who were comfortable admitting they like Cox. Fortunately it was legalised in 2017 and now everyone is allowed to like Cox.
Shaun Rehn a top 3 ruckman of all time?
Unlucky with ACL's and a very good player at his best but he is nowhere near top 3 all time. Genuinely miles away. 167 games and 2 x AA.
Stephen Michael, Polly Farmer, Simon Madden, Gary Dempsey, John Nicholls, Dean Cox, etc are all multiple echelons above.
Max Gawn, Graham Moss, Len Thompson, Peter Moore, Jimmy Stynes, Brendon Lade and many others all easily better too.
The first 10 of those names would be close to the top 10 of all time (in no particular order).
Engimal v3
**** m**nl*nd*rs
Cox was basically the prototype of what coaches want their ruckman to be in the modern game
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Hudson only played 129 games.
Kreuzer could also be in the discussion based just on what he did and for sure would be if he hadnt been crippled by injuries.
It's not about games played. The likes of Rehn and Kreuzer are nowhere near the top 3 ruckman of all time. They were both decent players (though Kreuzer was not even selected AA ruck once) but the bar for top 3 of all time is set very, very high.
It's a strange one - cos I think generally the great forwards and the great mids of yesteryear are well remembered but the truly elite rucks are largely forgotten outside of a couple of names such as those you originally highlighted (Farmer, Madden, Cox).
Take Gary Dempsey for example - until GAJ took over, he was the leading Brownlow vote getter of all time (which he held for 35 odd years). He won 1, finished 2nd another time and was top 10 an astonishing 13 times. He won 7 best and fairests, including 5 straight. He was named in the team of the century at 2 different clubs. He held the record for the most hitouts for about 30 years, until the game completely changed in terms of the number of stoppages. From his own era and before, he has nearly 2000 hitouts more than any other player ever. It's a similar story for marks - where he still sits 2nd of all time with the highest average ever despite playing in an era where 'chipping it around' didn't exist.
Then you have Graham Moss - he played over 320 games, won 7 best and fairests, spent just 4 seasons in the VFL and managed to become the captain of Essendon, win 3 best and fairests, win a Brownlow and have the 2nd highest Brownlow vote average in history. Oh and he also won a Simpson Medal (best player in the State game).
John Nicholls - who is a name most recognise but not one of the ones mentioned - was named in the AFL team of the century. Famous for his battles with Polly, many consider him in the top 2 rucks of all time. He captained 3 flags, mutiple AA's in the carnival era, won 5 B&F's and was an inaugural legend.
What about Len Thompson? Len won the Collingwood B&F 5 times, captained the club, was selected first ruck in their team of the century, won a Brownlow medal and was top 2 in the 'alltime hitouts' for more than 3 decades until the game completely changed.
or even Peter Moore (Darcy's dad). Moore won 2 Brownlows, multiple B&F's, was AA, etc and I wouldn't have him in genuine consideration for top 3 all time. Nor would I have Jimmy Stynes - who had a season where he was named first ruck in the AA team, won the B&F, won the MVP and won the Brownlow. He also won 3 other best and fairests, another All Australian, etc.
Going back to the real old timers - but you've also got Tom Leahy - who is considered easily the greatest ruck out of SA ever and one of SA's 5 best ever players. He won a Magarey, was runner up 3 other times, was SA's best player in the vast majority of his 31 State games and was the dominant player when his side won the 'Champions of Australia' against Carlton.
Guys Like Shaun Rehn and Matthew Kreuzer (with all respect to them) just don't belong in the same conversation. I'm not sure why some of those above names are so frequently forgotten (or underrated), with there being a number of other guys I could of mentioned in a similar category.
