LOL! No. Shaw is an outside tagger with tremendous speed. Sidebottom is a completely different player.
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Welcome to Collingwood - Steele Sidebottom (PICK 11)
- Thread starter Jabso
- Start date
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- Banned
- #127
I think he might be thinking of Blight
Then he should not be posting stuff about Blight in the Sidebottom thread.
- Oct 8, 2004
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I don't think he's thinking of Shaw, but I do think he can fill that role somewhat.
Whether it's with hard running, good use of space and moving the ball well by foot, or by just taking off like a jet, breaking lines is important, and while Rhyce did it by taking off, Rusty can do it with hard running and good ball use, and so I think he can replace a bit of what Rhyce brought if he comes into the side.
No matter how quick Rhyce is, he's not quicker than a kicked ball.
Whether it's with hard running, good use of space and moving the ball well by foot, or by just taking off like a jet, breaking lines is important, and while Rhyce did it by taking off, Rusty can do it with hard running and good ball use, and so I think he can replace a bit of what Rhyce brought if he comes into the side.
No matter how quick Rhyce is, he's not quicker than a kicked ball.
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any one can kick better than him on the runThe way Rhyce kicks, thats arguable.
THESGT#5
Debutant
i no the bloke personaly and he can play anywhere not just up forward played at half back for bushies most of the year
THESGT#5
Debutant
great to see him at collingwood great player hard at the ball lives to the moto no guts no glory i rekon
- Banned
- #134
- Banned
- #135
Steele Sidebottom (Murray Bushrangers)
184/81 bottom-age right foot (dual-sided) mid/utility.
*STYLE LIKE: Slower Sewell
*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 24
*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Likely. Ready year 1.
- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 5-10.
*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / M / M
*TRADEMARK:
- Get ball while on the move (perhaps roving the spill, even aerially) then good vision to deftly feed off quickly and accurately or do a deft economical hunched shortish kick (perhaps accurately) ... then smile ... then run on immediately.
- Do something ... and smile. Do something else ... and smile.
*MAIN SELLING POINTS:
- Think through
- Anticipation, reading play / timely running to the right spots
- Balance
- Endurance
- Agility
- Ethic (on and off-field)
*MAIN QUERY:
- Pace
*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:
- Nimble, hard-working, smooth-moving, balanced, clever mid/utility who runs all day and gets plenty of ball. A 184cm astute "ruck-rover" type who bobs up all around the ground at the right time with the right momentum, works hard both ways, and will be at least serviceable week in, week out.
His best role is onball but he is not a prolific centre-bounce clearer and his best CB work is arguably as a Predator or rushing in from well behind his ruckman or blocking for team-mates.
- I compared his style to a "slower Sewell" because he plays mainly midfield but his game has plenty in common with Steve Johnson and Didak re how they nimbly create something out of nothing through elite anticipation and left-field quick thinking.
- His pace issues and kicking reliability are both overrated. He does lack pace but it's not nearly as bad as popular opinion would suggest and he sometimes finds an extra gear when needed. He does do some excellent kicks but his kicking is not *reliably* as good as popular opinion would suggest.
- Other than pace, not much obvious to fault but OHF (Offensive Hurt Factor) around the ground is somewhat overrated. Bottom-age but only by 2 days. Gets own ball. Very good 1-1. Gets some SP clearances but how many actually hurt? He has days where his OHF is good but he also has quite a few days where he can have 20 disposals yet hardly be noticed for hurt factor. Best assets are elite endurance and quick brain. Good at getting the ball into or inside the forward 50 and creating scoring opportunities.
- When I interviewed one of his main coaches, his first comment was "Should have been aboriginal - has a Wanganeen-like balance, movement, touch and feel for what's unfolding". I largely agree with that.
- I don't rate him quite as highly as touted but he should still be at least a good AFL player, possibly better than that. I wrestled a little bit with a ranking number for Sidebottom. I didn't consider him for my top 11 but could have happily ranked him anywhere between about 16 and 25. I could almost have thrown a blanket over the 11 non-rucks in my rankings between 12 and 25, so even were those players. 11 players can't all be #12 so, in the wash-up, Sidebottom finished at 24. Of the mid-fielder types in my 12-25 rankings, I see all except Alistair Smith as rock-solid investments in that they are no-fuss genuine footballers who you can rely on to be at least serviceable virtually every game. (Smith at 23 is the risky ranking in that rankings bracket but has the potential to be a dashing game-breaker if it all comes together for him).
Theoretically, I would draft Sidebottom myself but not with a pick earlier than about 18, unless we weren't interested in talls at that stage. (I say "theoretically" because I expect him to already be gone, somewhere in the 2nd half of the first round).
*DISPOSAL:
(see above)
- His best kicks are excellent (sometimes worm-burners). However, his efficiency in hitting targets is not nearly as reliable as is often touted, and he does do some clangers and mongrels. Good at weighting a pass to the lead. Overall, he is nowhere near the efficiency of, say, Dal Santo (who admittedly is more outside) and the overall hurt factor of his collection of effective kicks suffers from the fact that he predominantly kicks shortish rather than long.
- Goal-kicking is fairly reliable. He's not an overly long kick but you'd back him with most kicks from 20-45m. If anything, he can be inclined to get the hard goals but be slightly iffy with a short-range gimme set shot. Kicked 10-3 in '08 TAC GF but I'd warn against reading too much into that single game, goals-wise, (although he was outstanding on the day) as his direct opponents when resting were ordinary and he kicked only 13-9 in his other 21 games in '08.
- Kicking style is economical and indigene-like deft but he is inclined to be hunched with his COM too forward which costs him depth.
- Maximum depth seems to be about 53m.
- Seriously dual-sided.
- Often good by hand (sometimes excellent) but without being routinely reliable. Quick hands. Good power. Often very good hurt factor by hand.
*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:
- Elite reader. Excellent ability to anticipate how the play will unfold. Runs to right spots at right time with right momentum. Sixth sense. Good at roving the spill, even aerially.
- Excellent vision. Quick brain, often left-field clever. Usually looks for options and chooses the right option. Usually thinks his way through situations.
- Sharp, nimble evasion and ability to create space, even within a confined area under great pressure. Good traffic management.
- Clever body use.
- Likes to take them on, including the man on the mark, but must learn to be more judicious in doing so as he too often unnecessarily gets himself into trouble. In particular, when you lack some pace from a standing start, you don't take on the man on the mark if that man is an agile speedster.
*HANDS:
- Very often clean but not routinely.
*OVERHEAD MARKING:
- Strong overhead for his size, albeit sometimes 2-grab. Attacks his marks, judges very well and can mark from any position.
- Doesn't often display much of a leap but every so often surprises with a decent jump.
*ATHLETICISM:
- Pace isn't flash but he has a change of gear over a couple of metres when already on the run. In the last 9 years, only 4 players under 191cm have even been drafted with 20m times no better than Sidebottom's. Two of them were Kane Cornes and Troy Selwood so poor times per se are not a definitive showstopper anyway if you are the type who has a big motor and are very frequently on the move, as is true for those 2 players and Sidebottom. Cassisi's and Giansiracusa's times weren't much better. Importantly, Sidebottom is not often exposed for pace. Some kids regularly return good speed times at testing but fail to exhibit such pace on field. Some kids regularly return poor speed times at testing but exhibit somewhat better pace on field. So it is with Sidebottom. I've seen a few times where a quickish player overtook Sidebottom in a run to the ball yet I've also seen Sidebottom occasionally run down an opponent (eg Rhys O'Keeffe). In summary, although he lacks acceleration off the mark and some overall pace, he makes up for it with his uncanny ability to anticipate the way the play will unfold and thus get the mental jump on an opponent and/or hit the play with the right timing and with momentum already built up and/or be smart enough to cut off the angles.
- Elite endurance. Huge motor.
- Excellent agility. Almost cat-like. Slippery, sharp.
- Very strong, balanced. Difficult to bring down in a tackle.
*INTENSITY, ETHIC:
- Excellent work rate. Works hard both ways. Attacks both man and ball. Strong, usually effective tackler.
- Courageous.
- Outstanding character. Very keen, very coachable. An "over-trainer" if anything. Will leave no stone unturned to get the most out of himself. Really enjoys everything about his footy - even when he cops a heavy bump, he's likely to get up smiling. Very personable kid.
*CONSISTENCY:
- Very consistent. What you see is what you get. He'll have games where he won't have great impact and he'll occasionally get beaten but he will rarely play a genuinely poor game and will do some good things even on a quiet day..
*AFL VERSATILITY:
(see above)
- Natural 184cm "ruck-rover" type but his anticipation / reading is so good he could play HBF or especially HFF on an opponent who isn't genuinely quick. His endurance, concentration, discipline and smarts are such that he could also be an elite run-with who gets plenty of his own ball (a la Kirk, Ling).
*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):
- No special factors, Been right through the system.
*SOME STATS:
- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 23 disposals in 14 local games (ranking No.16 in comp). 1.3 contested marks. 3.0 tackles. Total goals 21-10.
14 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 3.2 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.0 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.0 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 7.0 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 3.6 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.6 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.1 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 11 games, 25 in 6 games, 30 in 2 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 2%. % change in KI/10K was + 42%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 38%. % change in contested marks was + 58%. % change in handball receives was + 7%. % change in tackles was +100%.
- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 18 disposals and 3.4 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 22). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 14 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 17-23 (4 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 22/64 (3.4 per 10 kicks), incl 6 clangers (0.9 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 11/25 (4.4 per 10 handballs), incl 2 clangers (0.8/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 33/89 (7.4 per 20 disp), incl 8 clangers (1.8 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 22/89 (4.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 13/89 (2.9 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 35/89 (7.9 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (0.9 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 19/89 (4.3 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 20/89 (4.5 per 20 disp), incl 4 CBC (0.9/20 disp) and 3 other BU (0.7/20 disp).
Tackles: 17 (Avg 3.4 per game).
*OTHER STUFF:
- All Aust TY.
- AIS
184/81 bottom-age right foot (dual-sided) mid/utility.
*STYLE LIKE: Slower Sewell
*MY RANKING (not meant to reflect appropriate draft pick to use): 24
*PROBABILITY OF AFL CAREER: Likely. Ready year 1.
- Within an AFL team list, could prove capable of SUSTAINING a ranking of 5-10.
*HURT FACTORS (Offensive/Defensive/Negative): M / M / M
*TRADEMARK:
- Get ball while on the move (perhaps roving the spill, even aerially) then good vision to deftly feed off quickly and accurately or do a deft economical hunched shortish kick (perhaps accurately) ... then smile ... then run on immediately.
- Do something ... and smile. Do something else ... and smile.
*MAIN SELLING POINTS:
- Think through
- Anticipation, reading play / timely running to the right spots
- Balance
- Endurance
- Agility
- Ethic (on and off-field)
*MAIN QUERY:
- Pace
*SUMMARY ASSESSMENT, RECOMMENDATION:
- Nimble, hard-working, smooth-moving, balanced, clever mid/utility who runs all day and gets plenty of ball. A 184cm astute "ruck-rover" type who bobs up all around the ground at the right time with the right momentum, works hard both ways, and will be at least serviceable week in, week out.
His best role is onball but he is not a prolific centre-bounce clearer and his best CB work is arguably as a Predator or rushing in from well behind his ruckman or blocking for team-mates.
- I compared his style to a "slower Sewell" because he plays mainly midfield but his game has plenty in common with Steve Johnson and Didak re how they nimbly create something out of nothing through elite anticipation and left-field quick thinking.
- His pace issues and kicking reliability are both overrated. He does lack pace but it's not nearly as bad as popular opinion would suggest and he sometimes finds an extra gear when needed. He does do some excellent kicks but his kicking is not *reliably* as good as popular opinion would suggest.
- Other than pace, not much obvious to fault but OHF (Offensive Hurt Factor) around the ground is somewhat overrated. Bottom-age but only by 2 days. Gets own ball. Very good 1-1. Gets some SP clearances but how many actually hurt? He has days where his OHF is good but he also has quite a few days where he can have 20 disposals yet hardly be noticed for hurt factor. Best assets are elite endurance and quick brain. Good at getting the ball into or inside the forward 50 and creating scoring opportunities.
- When I interviewed one of his main coaches, his first comment was "Should have been aboriginal - has a Wanganeen-like balance, movement, touch and feel for what's unfolding". I largely agree with that.
- I don't rate him quite as highly as touted but he should still be at least a good AFL player, possibly better than that. I wrestled a little bit with a ranking number for Sidebottom. I didn't consider him for my top 11 but could have happily ranked him anywhere between about 16 and 25. I could almost have thrown a blanket over the 11 non-rucks in my rankings between 12 and 25, so even were those players. 11 players can't all be #12 so, in the wash-up, Sidebottom finished at 24. Of the mid-fielder types in my 12-25 rankings, I see all except Alistair Smith as rock-solid investments in that they are no-fuss genuine footballers who you can rely on to be at least serviceable virtually every game. (Smith at 23 is the risky ranking in that rankings bracket but has the potential to be a dashing game-breaker if it all comes together for him).
Theoretically, I would draft Sidebottom myself but not with a pick earlier than about 18, unless we weren't interested in talls at that stage. (I say "theoretically" because I expect him to already be gone, somewhere in the 2nd half of the first round).
*DISPOSAL:
(see above)
- His best kicks are excellent (sometimes worm-burners). However, his efficiency in hitting targets is not nearly as reliable as is often touted, and he does do some clangers and mongrels. Good at weighting a pass to the lead. Overall, he is nowhere near the efficiency of, say, Dal Santo (who admittedly is more outside) and the overall hurt factor of his collection of effective kicks suffers from the fact that he predominantly kicks shortish rather than long.
- Goal-kicking is fairly reliable. He's not an overly long kick but you'd back him with most kicks from 20-45m. If anything, he can be inclined to get the hard goals but be slightly iffy with a short-range gimme set shot. Kicked 10-3 in '08 TAC GF but I'd warn against reading too much into that single game, goals-wise, (although he was outstanding on the day) as his direct opponents when resting were ordinary and he kicked only 13-9 in his other 21 games in '08.
- Kicking style is economical and indigene-like deft but he is inclined to be hunched with his COM too forward which costs him depth.
- Maximum depth seems to be about 53m.
- Seriously dual-sided.
- Often good by hand (sometimes excellent) but without being routinely reliable. Quick hands. Good power. Often very good hurt factor by hand.
*DECISION-MAKING, SMARTS:
- Elite reader. Excellent ability to anticipate how the play will unfold. Runs to right spots at right time with right momentum. Sixth sense. Good at roving the spill, even aerially.
- Excellent vision. Quick brain, often left-field clever. Usually looks for options and chooses the right option. Usually thinks his way through situations.
- Sharp, nimble evasion and ability to create space, even within a confined area under great pressure. Good traffic management.
- Clever body use.
- Likes to take them on, including the man on the mark, but must learn to be more judicious in doing so as he too often unnecessarily gets himself into trouble. In particular, when you lack some pace from a standing start, you don't take on the man on the mark if that man is an agile speedster.
*HANDS:
- Very often clean but not routinely.
*OVERHEAD MARKING:
- Strong overhead for his size, albeit sometimes 2-grab. Attacks his marks, judges very well and can mark from any position.
- Doesn't often display much of a leap but every so often surprises with a decent jump.
*ATHLETICISM:
- Pace isn't flash but he has a change of gear over a couple of metres when already on the run. In the last 9 years, only 4 players under 191cm have even been drafted with 20m times no better than Sidebottom's. Two of them were Kane Cornes and Troy Selwood so poor times per se are not a definitive showstopper anyway if you are the type who has a big motor and are very frequently on the move, as is true for those 2 players and Sidebottom. Cassisi's and Giansiracusa's times weren't much better. Importantly, Sidebottom is not often exposed for pace. Some kids regularly return good speed times at testing but fail to exhibit such pace on field. Some kids regularly return poor speed times at testing but exhibit somewhat better pace on field. So it is with Sidebottom. I've seen a few times where a quickish player overtook Sidebottom in a run to the ball yet I've also seen Sidebottom occasionally run down an opponent (eg Rhys O'Keeffe). In summary, although he lacks acceleration off the mark and some overall pace, he makes up for it with his uncanny ability to anticipate the way the play will unfold and thus get the mental jump on an opponent and/or hit the play with the right timing and with momentum already built up and/or be smart enough to cut off the angles.
- Elite endurance. Huge motor.
- Excellent agility. Almost cat-like. Slippery, sharp.
- Very strong, balanced. Difficult to bring down in a tackle.
*INTENSITY, ETHIC:
- Excellent work rate. Works hard both ways. Attacks both man and ball. Strong, usually effective tackler.
- Courageous.
- Outstanding character. Very keen, very coachable. An "over-trainer" if anything. Will leave no stone unturned to get the most out of himself. Really enjoys everything about his footy - even when he cops a heavy bump, he's likely to get up smiling. Very personable kid.
*CONSISTENCY:
- Very consistent. What you see is what you get. He'll have games where he won't have great impact and he'll occasionally get beaten but he will rarely play a genuinely poor game and will do some good things even on a quiet day..
*AFL VERSATILITY:
(see above)
- Natural 184cm "ruck-rover" type but his anticipation / reading is so good he could play HBF or especially HFF on an opponent who isn't genuinely quick. His endurance, concentration, discipline and smarts are such that he could also be an elite run-with who gets plenty of his own ball (a la Kirk, Ling).
*CSI (COMPARATIVE SCOPE for IMPROVEMENT):
- No special factors, Been right through the system.
*SOME STATS:
- Stats summary '08 TAC:
Averaged 23 disposals in 14 local games (ranking No.16 in comp). 1.3 contested marks. 3.0 tackles. Total goals 21-10.
14 kicks per 20 disposals.
Ineffective kicks: 3.2 per 10 kicks.
Ineff handballs: 1.0 per 10 handballs.
Ineffective disposals: 5.0 per 20 disp.
HandBall Receives: 7.0 per 20 disp. Uncontested marks: 3.6 per 20 disp. HR+UM: 10.6 per 20 disp.
Contested Marks: 1.1 per 20 disp.
At least: 20 disposals in 11 games, 25 in 6 games, 30 in 2 games.
- Mid-way trend ... % change in disposals was + 2%. % change in KI/10K was + 42%. % change in Ineff/20D was + 38%. % change in contested marks was + 58%. % change in handball receives was + 7%. % change in tackles was +100%.
- Stats summary '08 U18 Champs:
Averaged 18 disposals and 3.4 marks in his 5 games. (Best TD 22). (Tot TOG 0%).
Averaged 14 kicks per 20 disposals.
Kicks long vs short: 17-23 (4 long per 10 kicks).
Ineffective kicks: 22/64 (3.4 per 10 kicks), incl 6 clangers (0.9 per 10 kicks).
Ineff handballs: 11/25 (4.4 per 10 handballs), incl 2 clangers (0.8/10 hb).
Ineffective disposals: 33/89 (7.4 per 20 disp), incl 8 clangers (1.8 per 20 disp).
HandBall Receives: 22/89 (4.9 per 20 disp). Uncontested marks: 13/89 (2.9 per 20 disp). HR+UM: 35/89 (7.9 per 20 disp).
Contested marks: 4 (0.9 per 20 disp).
Hardball gets: 19/89 (4.3 per 20 disp).
SP Clears: 20/89 (4.5 per 20 disp), incl 4 CBC (0.9/20 disp) and 3 other BU (0.7/20 disp).
Tackles: 17 (Avg 3.4 per game).
*OTHER STUFF:
- All Aust TY.
- AIS
- Banned
- #136
Wisbey has lost the plot
"Do something... and smile. Do something else....and smile".
Will become a famous quote around this board.
Actually loving the style of this boy already.
Do not care if he is confident or cocky or arrogant, as long as he can back it all up.
Will become a famous quote around this board.
Actually loving the style of this boy already.
Do not care if he is confident or cocky or arrogant, as long as he can back it all up.
- Banned
- #138
Yes I can hear that famous address by John Kennedy now
"Just DO SOMETHING! DO! don't think, don't hope, DO!.... then smile"
Snag Breac
Brownlow Medallist
- Get ball while on the move (perhaps roving the spill, even aerially) then good vision to deftly feed off quickly and accurately or do a deft economical hunched shortish kick (perhaps accurately) ... then smile ... then run on immediately
Who wrote this originally? It's like poetry, or like a piece by James Joyce.
Who wrote this originally? It's like poetry, or like a piece by James Joyce.
- Banned
- #140
He's the Donny Osmond of the oval ball
