American Bands vs English Bands - which is better?

[Crow-mo]

That's crap and until you can give me an actual quote from one of them that they did it for that reason then your argument has no foundation. Infact Wilson was quoted in a 70s Rolling Stone magazine that he created Pet Sounds to try and top Rubber Soul. No Rubber Soul no Pet Sounds.

your rant just shows how little you know on the subject.

McCartney has always credited Pet Sounds as the influence, and one of the songs on it as the greatest pop song ever - which was only ever a B side. but I suspect your knowledge of this album extends to a google search done 2 minutes prior to replying. hell, here are 2 quotes for you:

"It was Pet Sounds that blew me out of the water. I love the album so much. I've just bought my kids each a copy of it for their education in life ... I figure no one is educated musically 'til they've heard that album ... I love the orchestra, the arrangements ... it may be going overboard to say it's the classic of the century ... but to me, it certainly is a total, classic record that is unbeatable in many ways ... I've often played Pet Sounds and cried. I played it to John [Lennon] so much that it would be difficult for him to escape the influence ... it was the record of the time. The thing that really made me sit up and take notice was the bass lines ... and also, putting melodies in the bass line. That I think was probably the big influence that set me thinking when we recorded Pepper, it set me off on a period I had then for a couple of years of nearly always writing quite melodic bass lines. "God Only Knows" is a big favourite of mine ... very emotional, always a bit of a choker for me, that one. On "You Still Believe in Me", I love that melody - that kills me ... that's my favourite, I think ... it's so beautiful right at the end ... comes surging back in these multi-coloured harmonies ... sends shivers up my spine

[/quote=Brian Martin]
Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn't have happened... Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds [/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds


so, are you still so sure?

Good try but again no cigar.

ok...

No I'm quoting from radio station 5AD's top pop charts from the era.
Today's ratings are all about record companies buying their own product to create hits.

did you really just say 5AD? really?

Not sure where your coming from with this re-invention talk but the other is
although subjective it's true to those with a musical ear.

yes, I am sure that must be it.

I guess you had to put something in there oracle but it was at the time for over 500000 people.

no, this oracle still doesn't see the relevance. but if you believe 500,000 people turned up in the centre of adelaide, then I imagine you also believe they traveled in on santa's sleigh.

Before they came along and Brian Epstein had it inserted into their recording contract with EMI that they would be able to pick their own singles if Love Me Do exceeded a certain sales figure, (What that figure was is still a mystery), record companies and studio bosses world wide would pick an artist's single and which side of that single would be the A side and which the B side.

but even if this is actually the first occurence, where is the attribution for the effect you have claimed? as it stands this is a classic non-sequitur.

now look your good cop and bad cop routine with yourself and Kristof is entertaining, but people are beginning to talk.

I imagine their attention might switch to your foolishness for a few minutes at least

Ps. a great musical ear such as yours really should give pet sounds a listen.

 

[Crow-mo]

Think bands like Cream and Led Zeplin might argue.

Cream?

really? did you really say Cream?

they were a compilation band that was around for 2 or 3 years and made what? 3 albums or so.

hell if they were a greater band than Queen, then the travelling wilbury's must be the true daddy. maybe Power Station was more influential than The Stones or Springsteen?

but anyway, I am bored with this puerile, beavis n butthead topic. and you should stop talking for other reasons.

 

[mark73]

Agree with whoever said it's far too subjective to personal taste. It's the type of thing you could debate forever. Also, it depends on what the time frame is. If we're talking 60's through to now then overall I'd have to say the English groups have been better. Certainly more influential. On the other hand, the origins of the type of music they play lies in America. o it's probably a bit of a credit each way thing.

I would lean towards favouring American musicians because my interests and playing style are based around the jazz/funk/fusion genre, but that's still subjective again when you take into account that 2 of the best exponents of that style of music are John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth who both hail from Yorkshire.

I think over time the Americans have produced more slicker sounding groups, particularly in the 70's and 80's, but these groups (groups like Steely Dan for instance), never really hit highest high's because they played musicians music which often doesn't appeal to the general public because they don't understand it. Maybe a song or two but thats about it.

Then you've got groups like Nirvana who came along in the 90's who had huge followings but I often think that's because they were something different, appealed to the youth and there wasn't much else around at the time. Anyway, could go on forever, but my thoughts over time would be American musicians percentage wise have been better, but the English groups have had a much larger influence on popular music.

Some of the American groups of modern times have basically just a cult following when put up against groups like the Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin, Queen etc. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

PS - Fleetwood Mac are actually an English band. They added 2 Americans in the mid 70's in Buckingham and Nicks but they're English.

 

[mark73]

id include rage against the machine in there for the american bands.

I'm a huge RATM fan, but they'd be a fair way down the list in terms of best of the best in popularity.

 

[StuPendus]

your rant just shows how little you know on the subject.

McCartney has always credited Pet Sounds as the influence, and one of the songs on it as the greatest pop song ever - which was only ever a B side. but I suspect your knowledge of this album extends to a google search done 2 minutes prior to replying. hell, here are 2 quotes for you:



[/quote=Brian Martin]
Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn't have happened... Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds


so, are you still so sure? [/QUOTE]

Here's a little tip for you, instead of you using this medium for your research, I suggest you go and get yourself a copy of "All you need is ears" by Brian Martin and look up page 209 and get back to me.

And while I'm checking through my hundreds of hours of interviews with and about them I'll wait in anticipation with your answer.

 

[StuPendus]

did you really just say 5AD? really?

Why wouldn't I say that. Adelaide had three radio stations that played rock or popular music an hour every night during the early sixties through to the late 60s when because the young ones were tuning out for obvious reasons they started playing it 24/7.

All these stations AD, KA and DN all had hit parades that they used to publish to push their own barrows. They were free from record bars and shops, so that was the earliest way to research who was listening to what station. [/QUOTE]

but even if this is actually the first occurence, where is the attribution for the effect you have claimed? as it stands this is a classic non-sequitur.

Let me put it even a simpleton like you will understand.
Even great artists such as Presley, or Sinartra or even Crosby couldn't choose the songs they recorded released as a single or on a particular LP.

Ps. a great musical ear such as yours really should give pet sounds a listen.

I do have it in my collection. The only reason I purchased it (a US vinyl copy with a 14 minute version of their only decent song on it), God Only Knows.
That and Good Vibrations were the only things they did in their latter years did I personally think were brilliant.

Everything else all sounds the same.

PS I will put my musical experience against yours anytime.

Been playing music probably before you were born.

Let me know who've you've done sessions or jammed with and Ill try to match it.

Let me know how many rare guitars you have that have been played by famous people in your collection. (I have a full set of Beatle guitars).

 

[StuPendus]

Cream?

really? did you really say Cream?

they were a compilation band that was around for 2 or 3 years and made what? 3 albums or so.

hell if they were a greater band than Queen, then the travelling wilbury's must be the true daddy. maybe Power Station was more influential than The Stones or Springsteen?

but anyway, I am bored with this puerile, beavis n butthead topic. and you should stop talking for other reasons.

Well everything that Clapton did in different bands could be called a compilation, but they were commonly called the first super group.

But the recording of the twin album of Derek and the Dominos was a true compilation.

 

[chickawah]

Not too sure how many rock bands covered any of their rock hits.

the White Stripes for one. Oasis another. Do you want more?

 

[chickawah]

Let me know who've you've done sessions or jammed with and Ill try to match it.

Let me know how many rare guitars you have that have been played by famous people in your collection. (I have a full set of Beatle guitars).

Relevance??

 

[StuPendus]

the White Stripes for one. Oasis another. Do you want more?

Get back to me when you can name one with talent.

 

[StuPendus]

Relevance??

Since when has that been a requirement on this board?

But I'm glad you asked.

My musical knowledge was being questioned and just like him I wanted to big note myself.


Now have you got 20 years to listen to my story?

 

[chickawah]

Since when has that been a requirement on this board?

But I'm glad you asked.

My musical knowledge was being questioned and just like him I wanted to big note myself.


Now have you got 20 years to listen to my story?

How does having rare guitars boost your claims of an astounding musical knowledge. By your logic, if I have an Aston Martin DB5, driven by Sean Connery in Goldfinger, it makes me the best driver in the history of the world, no questions asked.

And the White Stripes do have talent...............Oasis, not so much.

 

[-VC-]

How does having rare guitars boost your claims of an astounding musical knowledge. By your logic, if I have an Aston Martin DB5, driven by Sean Connery in Goldfinger, it makes me the best driver in the history of the world, no questions asked.

Actually, it'd probably make you a better secret agent.

 

[StuPendus]

How does having rare guitars boost your claims of an astounding musical knowledge. By your logic, if I have an Aston Martin DB5, driven by Sean Connery in Goldfinger, it makes me the best driver in the history of the world, no questions asked.

And the White Stripes do have talent...............Oasis, not so much.

Not sure about being the best driver in the world but if your going to part with a hundred grand or more, I would hope you'd do your research in knowing that Mr. Bond did actually drive the vehicle, that it was in the movie, that the vehicle is not a replica, that it is what it's documents say it is and that you purchase it by a reputable auction company.

One would assume that you being a fan of this said vehicle brand you would have obtained quite a bit of knowledge about sports cars or you could be one of these fools who are easily parted with their money.

But I also claimed that being in an industry for more than 26 years you sort of gain information about that industry and it's major and minor players.

I do have to ask, did you buy a white dinner jacket and black tie to go with that DB5?

 

[Rave Slave]

And the White Stripes do have talent...............Oasis, not so much.

Are you srs?

I like the White Stripes but I'm pretty sure I could fill in for Meg White on tour her drumming ability is so poor. That and Jack is a knob.

For me this one's pretty easy, based on my own music tastes it's English bands hands down. Always has been and currently still is (probably always will be).

 

[WALL-e]

Are you srs?

I like the White Stripes but I'm pretty sure I could fill in for Meg White on tour her drumming ability is so poor. That and Jack is a knob.

For me this one's pretty easy, based on my own music tastes it's English bands hands down. Always has been and currently still is (probably always will be).

Meg Whites drumming ability is worthless, her drumming resembles that of a 12 year old's garage band with 2 years of playing experience.

 

[chickawah]

Are you srs?

I like the White Stripes but I'm pretty sure I could fill in for Meg White on tour her drumming ability is so poor. That and Jack is a knob.

For me this one's pretty easy, based on my own music tastes it's English bands hands down. Always has been and currently still is (probably always will be).

Simplicity is sometimes best, Meg may not do much, but it's a hell of a lot better than say.....Ginger Baker, who can't keep a beat properly, and just does fill after fill after fill after fill. It's like Ringo Starr, not a flashy drummer by any means, but man could he keep a rock solid beat.

And by the way when I said talented I was talking about Jack, who, as we all know, is the White Stripes. Although he is a complete knob, he is a great guitarist, a good songwriter and a good producer. Plus he is quite a multi-instrumentalist, pretty damn talented IMHO.

Oh, and Stu, yes, yes I did purchase the accessories to go with the car.

 

[mark73]

Simplicity is sometimes best

Or as Miles Davis used to say....Less is often more.

Ginger Baker, who can't keep a beat properly, and just does fill after fill after fill after fill.

Finally, at least someone understands what I've thought all along. If you watch him when Cream were inducted into the hall of fame, and they did a straight forward blues, he didn't even know when to come in. Obviously he's been ****ed by drugs, but he was a seriously overrated drummer.

It's like Ringo Starr, not a flashy drummer by any means, but man could he keep a rock solid beat.

Spot on.

And by the way when I said talented

Look at a guy like Steve Gadd. There's a guy who can do all the flashy stuff yet at least can follow a format and know when to play the material and when to cut loose. I laugh when people bring up names like Ginger Baker and Keith Moon amongst the best ever drummers. Are they serious?

 

[WALL-e]

Simplicity is sometimes best, Meg may not do much, but it's a hell of a lot better than say.....Ginger Baker, who can't keep a beat properly, and just does fill after fill after fill after fill. It's like Ringo Starr, not a flashy drummer by any means, but man could he keep a rock solid beat.

And by the way when I said talented I was talking about Jack, who, as we all know, is the White Stripes. Although he is a complete knob, he is a great guitarist, a good songwriter and a good producer. Plus he is quite a multi-instrumentalist, pretty damn talented IMHO.

Oh, and Stu, yes, yes I did purchase the accessories to go with the car.

Her problem isn't her simplicity, it's her inability to keep time and play in time.

 

[WALL-e]

I laugh when people bring up names like Ginger Baker and Keith Moon amongst the best ever drummers. Are they serious?

WOT

Bonham, Moon, Smith, Paice, Carey

No hate on Ringo, ever, but c'mon

Oh, Love to Steve Gadd though I use his stick a lot haha, but he's a top drummer.

 

[mark73]

WOT

Bonham, Moon, Smith, Paice, Carey

No hate on Ringo, ever, but c'mon

All of those guys pale into comparison when compared to a guy like Gadd, Rich or even Tony Williams. Yeah, they're all jazz players, but they played the shit you're hyping even better than the hypee's. Paice? You're kidding. And Bonham was just a rock drummer. A great one, but that's all he was.

Oh, Love to Steve Gadd though I use his stick a lot haha, but he's a top drummer.

Guy's like Moon and Baker were just bashers. They rarely ever knew what time sig they were playing in. "If there's a drum I'll hit it!" was about the extent of their ability.

 

[WALL-e]

All of those guys pale into comparison when compared to a guy like Gadd, Rich or even Tony Williams. Yeah, they're all jazz players, but they played the shit you're hyping even better than the hypee's. Paice? You're kidding. And Bonham was just a rock drummer. A great one, but that's all he was.

Guy's like Moon and Baker were just bashers. They rarely ever knew what time sig they were playing in. "If there's a drum I'll hit it!" was about the extent of their ability.

What gets me is you give love for ringo for being a solid drummer then hate on Bonham because he's a rock drummer.

Why the hate for Paice, goto one of his worshops, their awesome.

Buddy rich was an amazing drummer and his ghost stroke work was brilliant, so why hate on guy who use his technique.

Bonham is a god in the drumming world and for very good reason. to just sign him off as a rock drumming is pretty ignorant. Yeh he played rock, hard and heavy, but he revolutionised the use of triplets (along with moon). His kick work is far superior to those great drummers you mentioned as well. The ability to play whats needed (scince i've been loving you) and go all out (moby dick live).

They were the next step aften Rich and Gadd, the ability to adapt to a harder music which didn't require the soft hands jazz did, but encorperated the things Rich and Gadd developed and evolved it with more acents more kick and a more solid beat.

Can't hate on Chad Smith (you didn't) because his use of Rich techniques is awesome.

And Danny Carey seems to provide everything, with messed up sigs.


Wow this is off topic, sorry all.

 

[jazz]

All of those guys pale into comparison when compared to a guy like Gadd, Rich or even Tony Williams. Yeah, they're all jazz players, but they played the shit you're hyping even better than the hypee's. Paice? You're kidding. And Bonham was just a rock drummer. A great one, but that's all he was.

Guy's like Moon and Baker were just bashers. They rarely ever knew what time sig they were playing in. "If there's a drum I'll hit it!" was about the extent of their ability.

Hahaha. Ginger Baker was revered by other drummers at the time for his technical ability.

This argument cannot be resolved as it relies heavily on personal preference.

Major bands that were very popular and sold squillions of albums are conveniently ignored in this thread. Album sales/popularity isn't the be all and end all of course but what is the criteria for "better"?

 

[potatomasher]

Guy's like Moon and Baker were just bashers. They rarely ever knew what time sig they were playing in. "If there's a drum I'll hit it!" was about the extent of their ability.

But it didn't really matter with Moon. Townshend's rhythm guitar really acted as the drums in most songs, and they saw him as more of a keyboard player, someone who played off the vocals rather than the beat. If he was just bashing randomly, it's pretty freakish that it still sounded so good. No other drummer could've been any better in the Who.

 

[mark73]

What gets me is you give love for ringo for being a solid drummer then hate on Bonham because he's a rock drummer.

Why the hate for Paice, goto one of his worshops, their awesome.

Buddy rich was an amazing drummer and his ghost stroke work was brilliant, so why hate on guy who use his technique.

Bonham is a god in the drumming world and for very good reason. to just sign him off as a rock drumming is pretty ignorant. Yeh he played rock, hard and heavy, but he revolutionised the use of triplets (along with moon). His kick work is far superior to those great drummers you mentioned as well. The ability to play whats needed (scince i've been loving you) and go all out (moby dick live).

They were the next step aften Rich and Gadd, the ability to adapt to a harder music which didn't require the soft hands jazz did, but encorperated the things Rich and Gadd developed and evolved it with more acents more kick and a more solid beat.

Can't hate on Chad Smith (you didn't) because his use of Rich techniques is awesome.

And Danny Carey seems to provide everything, with messed up sigs.


Wow this is off topic, sorry all.

Who hated on Bonham? Pretty sure I said he was a great rock drummer, and he was. But amongst the best drummers? Not even close.

And Chad Smith, excuse me?