Hawthorn's Premeirship tally - A result of zoning and nothing else

[dymmot]

Everyone knows Hawthorn managed to dominate the 70s, 80s and pull the 2nd premiership of the 90s but the question had to be asked how they managed to have such success and dominate the competition for such a long period?

The answer, being given a helping hand through the flawed zoning system which gave them unprecidented access to some of the best players from this era.

Since the zoning system was disbanded and no longer could be argued to have any effect on the competiton, Hawthorn has only managed to win one premiership, which is considered by many to be nothing but a Bradbury.

This begs the question as to how successful Hawthorn really has been? The Dawks supporters love boasting about how dominant and successful they were in the 1980s, yet this had nothing to do with a well managed and successful off-field club.

Hawthorn have shown they really are a very very mediocre club when it comes down to the crunch, much like they were in their first 40 plus years by only managing to win one premiership without the favouritism of zoning.

2009 proved this through and through.

 

[Mcchawk]

Yeah cos no other clubs got zones. This thread really badly fails

Now lets talk Father/sons

 

[GuzzLG]

Not quite true.

Their premierships are the result of an outdated zoning system and an outdated priority pick system which they abused by tanking.

Under any equal system they have failed miserably. 0 real premierships.

 

[budda]

OP seems to have the same brain capacity as a non convicted killer.

 

[The Donners]

Not to mention their 1991 premiership against a 5 year old club and the fact it wasn't even played at the MCG. Clearly doesn't count.

 

[Mcchawk]

Lets not mention how Essenscum stole zones. But play on, its going well so far

 

[The Donners]

Lets not mention how Essenscum stole zones. But play on, its going well so far

Stole zones? Please explain.

 

[Reno]

Zoning and other certain things..sniff...sniff

 

[Falchoon]

If we plot the country zoning years on a bell curve, starting with 1 point for year 1 and ending with 1 point with a maximum of 10 we get the following blue line.

If we then measure Hawthorns position on the ladder giving 10 points for 1st, 9 points for 2nd etc and put that on a moving 5 year average we get the following red line.

Allow 6-10 years for a 16 year old to become a superstar and voila the curves are almost identical.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Matthews was from Frankston. Hudson from Tasmania. Dunstall from Queensland.

None of these were from the 'zones' you speak of.

FAIL.

 

[SA HAWK]

Since the zoning system was disbanded and no longer could be argued to have any effect on the competiton, Hawthorn has only managed to win one premiership, which is considered by many to be nothing but a Bradbury.

This begs the question as to how successful Hawthorn really has been? The Dawks supporters love boasting about how dominant and successful they were in the 1980s, yet this had nothing to do with a well managed and successful off-field club.

Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond, Western Bulldogs & St Kilda haven't won premierships since zoning was disbanded either.

Does this apply to them too?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Falchoon, your graph doesn't seem to include Hawthorn's position in 1991 and 2008, where we also finished first.

Two glaring errors that anyone can see from the naked eye.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Have a look at our premiership players, 3/4 of them were in a different club's zone but were regected, such as leigh matthews who was actually in collingwoods zone, dermie was in stkilda's zone just to name a couple of our stars.


also, 2008, yes, that is a result of zoning


ultra fail

 

[The Donners]

Matthews was from Frankston. Hudson from Tasmania. Dunstall from Queensland.

None of these were from the 'zones' you speak of.

FAIL.

Frankston was a part of Hawthorn's zoning. Kelvin Moore, Leigh Matthews and Dermot Brereton are the most well known VFL/AFL footballers to go to Hawthorn via the Frankston zone.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Hawthorn have shown they really are a very very mediocre club when it comes down to the crunch, much like they were in their first 40 plus years by only managing to win one premiership without the favouritism of zoning.

2009 proved this through and through.

How does one year prove this? What does 2006 prove for Geelong then?

You're actually talking about the pre-draft period where recruiting was more of an even playing field.

Hawthorn dominated that playing field for 50 years running.

Your club and its fans talk about consistency in terms of 3 years.

Hawthorn talks in terms of decades.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Frankston was a part of Hawthorn's zoning. Kelvin Moore, Leigh Matthews and Dermot Brereton are the most well known VFL/AFL footballers to go to Hawthorn via the Frankston zone.

Leigh Matthews himself said he was not within the Hawthorn zone. Probably because he was recruited from Chelsea, despite being born in Frankston.

It's over.

 

[Falchoon]

Falchoon, your graph doesn't seem to include Hawthorn's position in 1991 and 2008, where we also finished first.

Two glaring errors that anyone can see from the naked eye.

the naked eye doesn't understand moving averages?

 

[Falchoon]

Leigh Matthews himself said he was not within the Hawthorn zone. Probably because he was recruited from Chelsea, despite being born in Frankston.

It's over.

Leigh Matthews played for Chelsea Football Club, Chelsea Football Club played in the MPNFL, the MPNFL was one of Hawthorns zones.

http://www.chelseafc.com.au/Publication%20History%201968.pdf

 

[Hodgepodge]

Leigh Matthews played for Chelsea Football Club, Chelsea Football Club played in the MPNFL, the MPNFL was one of Hawthorns zones.

http://www.chelseafc.com.au/Publication History 1968.pdf

Not according to a documentary entitled 100 years of Australian Rules Football. And not according to Leigh Matthews. Chelsea must've been a club that was exempt from that zoning requirement.

 

[The Donners]

Falchoon, your graph doesn't seem to include Hawthorn's position in 1991 and 2008, where we also finished first.

Two glaring errors that anyone can see from the naked eye.

How many of those 1991 premiership players were pre-national draft days?

 

[The Donners]

Leigh Matthews himself said he was not within the Hawthorn zone. Probably because he was recruited from Chelsea, despite being born in Frankston.

It's over.

Bullshit.

 

[Hodgepodge]

How many of those 1991 premiership players were pre-national draft days?

And how many of them were outside the Hawthorn zone?

Compare this to the number of WCE players from Western Australia?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Bullshit.

Looks like I'm uploading another video onto youtube. I'm tired of proving you trolls wrong.

 

[Falchoon]

History of player recruitment, transfer and payment rules in the victorian and australian football league

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/ASSH%20Bulletins/No%2026/ASSHBulletin26e.pdf

Above is PDF, here is the Wiki extract.

The VFL's response was to zone rural Victoria and the Riverina of New South Wales in a similar manner to metropolitan Melbourne. Because of the sparseness of Australia's rural population, the country zones related not to the player's address, but rather to the league in which he played. This difference was a critical component of the failure of country zoning, because it made zone boundaries impossible to adjust.

Because the VFL was aware that discrepancies existed in the strength of zones, it was originally planned that the zones would be rotated so that each club would obtain a chance of receiving the best young country players. However - partly because those clubs with productive zones were naturally unwilling to give them up for less productive ones - the zones remained the same from the inception of country zoning until it was abolished. There was also no provision for demographic changes which occurred in the various country zones, which exacerbated the problems mentioned above.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Your graph also conveniently adjusts 5 years backwards for development of young players yet doesn't adjust forwards for draft picks lost due to champion players.

Another flaw.