Finals

[theGav56]

There is something on these threads that is confusing me.

SPINE
Most posters on here seem to rate our spine as being top-notch. The spine v spine thread suggest that it is awesome.

BACKS
In the MacPharlin as a defender thread, our backline gets a massive thumbs up. We have a dominant KP backman who nudged AA selection, and the promise of MacPharlin returning there. While Grover may be fading, he is covered, and we have poise and skill bringing the ball out of there.

MIDFIELD
We have a midfield mix comprising Hasleby, Crowley, Mundy, Palmer, Hill and a few other promising young players, not to mention the imminent inclusion of Mora, and the leagues best ruckman.

FORWARDS
We have possibly the best CHF going and an array of potent forwards. Clearly we are lacking a Full Forward, and the Forward line is still a work in progress, but we do have most of the ingredients including mature young players like Mayne and Ballantyne, as well as the possibility of Headland contributing. That is not too shabby.

DEPTH
Injuries will surely impact us more than most teams, but we have recruited rookies almost with that in mind and boast a rookie list which on this forum most posters think contains names who could easily be in our starting 22. In addition, they cover most of our required weak areas. Apart from Pavlich, Sandilands and Tarrant, I could see us covering injuries to most other positions, which is not to say they would not have an impact. But injuries to any teams best 3 players is likely to have an impact.

COACHING
Most posters on here rate Harvey highly, and he is the longest ever assistant coach to have attained senior coach status (I think???), and he has been at the helm for two and a half years, and at the club for 4. He has had resources pumped into problem areas such as fitness and player development, and he has good assistants. He has virtually no off-field issues to contend with apart from the fact that he is in the final year of a contract. He has a s good a home ground advantage as you can get.

But after all of that, most posters then think we will not make the finals? I would like to see the club enter the year with the attitude that playing finals is the benchmark for success in season 2010. Anything less is a failure.

 

[Lach72]

DEPTH
Injuries will surely impact us more than most teams,

Yes.

 

[Clay Davis]

I think we're good enough to make the finals on paper, but given the club's history, it's not a likelihood.

 

[theGav56]

I think we're good enough to make the finals on paper, but given the club's history, it's not a likelihood.

Insightful comment gravy, or are you trolling? I thought the entire purpose of getting a new coach and going through some re-building is to create some new history. If you think we are good enough then are you agreeing that failure to make the finals would be a failure for this season?

 

[theGav56]

Yes.

A man of few word.

 

[Clay Davis]

Insightful comment gravy, or are you trolling?

Nah.

I thought the entire purpose of getting a new coach and going through some re-building is to create some new history.

For some clubs, yes. For clubs like us and Richmond, no.

If you think we are good enough then are you agreeing that failure to make the finals would be a failure for this season?

Nah.

 

[Lach72]

A man of few word.

And less letters

Yes we do have some coverage but not good, experienced coverage.
Josh Hunt went down with a knee and Geelong were able to shuffle Bartel on to a hbf and use guys like Wojak to fill the gaps.

We have some potentially good coverage, not necessarily experienced...and if Sandi goes down, we're off to hell in a hand basket as Clarke is just not ready for full time rucking.

 

[estibador]

Finals *should* be the minimum aim every year but gravy's post was quite telling.

Put it this way, if a club like Adelaide or Sydney had our current squad I'd expect them to make the finals, but Freo...

 

[Lach72]

Now, having said all that, I think we're going somewhere, and IF the cards fall our way, we can play finals.
8-9 wins and less beltings is more realistic, and would show real progression

 

[theGav56]

Esti and gravy, the problem that I have with that attitude is that we are in the process of going through significant change, including a new coach. I would suggest that Paul Roos was the most significant factor in changing things for Sydney, and Adelaide have almost always been well coached. Yet you seem to think we are locked into some sort of fatalistic cellar-dwelling life-story?

 

[estibador]

I don't think we're locked in, I just need to see some evidence before I can really start believing. We seem to be on the right track but unfortunately with every season that goes past it's getting harder and harder to be blindly optimistic.

I can barely even imagine playing finals these days, let alone imagine us winning a premiership. This must be what it's like to be a Richmond fan.

 

[Lach72]

Esti and gravy, the problem that I have with that attitude is that we are in the process of going through significant change, including a new coach. I would suggest that Paul Roos was the most significant factor in changing things for Sydney, and Adelaide have almost always been well coached. Yet you seem to think we are locked into some sort of fatalistic cellar-dwelling life-story?

Red-headed step child

 

[theGav56]

8-9 wins and less beltings is more realistic, and would show real progression

For mine, that would show minor progression at best. It would give the sort of progress that I would expect from a team that lost quite a few close games the previous season, had a coach with an unsettled game-plan the previous season, and who was going through a process of blooding some new players, and a club who missed the services of two of their best midfielders.

In fact I think it means the minimal expectation for me would be 8-9 wins, if I had to rate the clubs progress purely on wins, and I would think of it as a borderline pass if the club also showed some promising aspects in other areas.

 

[Bad Brain]

I agree depth is a massive issue for us, but what I'm really worried about is our away form. We didn't just get beaten on the road last year, we got absolutely smashed.

That said, I think a few finals spots are up for grabs this year. And if teams like Weagles and the Bombers are considered contenders, there is no reason we shouldn't be expecting the same from Freo. the reason a lot of people were so keen on Harves was that he was known as a tough bastard who didn't except excuses. I say it's about time he delivered on that and got our promising list individuals to play hard and win as a team.

 

[theGav56]

Red-headed step child

Didn't like the "man of few word" quip Lach? You seem to be over-writing suddenly. My hair by the way is decidedly silver, and the closest my hair has ever come to red-hair, is my chin. And that was very nice.

 

[Clay Davis]

For mine, that would show minor progression at best. It would give the sort of progress that I would expect from a team that lost quite a few close games the previous season, had a coach with an unsettled game-plan the previous season, and who was going through a process of blooding some new players, and a club who missed the services of two of their best midfielders.

In fact I think it means the minimal expectation for me would be 8-9 wins, if I had to rate the clubs progress purely on wins, and I would think of it as a borderline pass if the club also showed some promising aspects in other areas.

We only lost one game by less than a goal last season. We were on the receiving end of a large number of beltings. I think, on paper, we can make the finals, but the woeful form we displayed during last year will be difficult to turn around.

 

[theGav56]

I agree depth is a massive issue for us, but what I'm really worried about is our away form. We didn't just get beaten on the road last year, we got absolutely smashed.

That said, I think a few finals spots are up for grabs this year. And if teams like Weagles and the Bombers are considered contenders, there is no reason we shouldn't be expecting the same from Freo. the reason a lot of people were so keen on Harves was that he was known as a tough bastard who didn't except excuses. I say it's about time he delivered on that and got our promising list individuals to play hard and win as a team.

Who are you agreeing with BB? I don't think it is too big an issue and I can see there being selection dilemmas. The only depth issues I can see is if our top 3 cop an injury.

The away form question is a good one and we need to progress in that area. But like you, I look at the Eagles and Bombers and rate us higher.

 

[Lach72]

Didn't like the "man of few word" quip Lach? You seem to be over-writing suddenly. My hair by the way is decidedly silver, and the closest my hair has ever come to red-hair, is my chin. And that was very nice.

No, I was talking about the Freo supporters mentality

 

[theGav56]

I think, on paper, we can make the finals, but the woeful form we displayed during last year will be difficult to turn around.

So you think it is a form thing? I guess that is why I am saying that finals is the pass mark, because if the team is structurally fairly sound, then win/loss is the measuring stick.

 

[Alfonz]

MIDFIELD
We have a midfield mix comprising Hasleby, Crowley, Mundy, Palmer, Hill and a few other promising young players, not to mention the imminent inclusion of Mora

The only experienced midfielder of any genuine quality is Hasleby, and you could argue he is too slow and approaching the end of his career.

Palmer is our best midfielder, which is an indictment on the rest of the group considering his age and poor kicking. And coming off a knee he is an unknown quantity.

There is much promise in Palmer, Ibbotson, Hill, Morabito, Suban, DeBoer, etc to form a great midfield group, but next year is likely to be beyond them in terms of getting us into the finals.

Games are won and lost in the midfield, and I can't see how our midfield will be strong enough to win ~12 games next year.

 

[theGav56]

The only experienced midfielder of any genuine quality is Hasleby, and you could argue he is too slow and approaching the end of his career.

Palmer is our best midfielder, which is an indictment on the rest of the group considering his age and poor kicking. And coming off a knee he is an unknown quantity.

There is much promise in Palmer, Ibbotson, Hill, Morabito, Suban, DeBoer, etc to form a great midfield group, but next year is likely to be beyond them in terms of getting us into the finals.

Games are won and lost in the midfield, and I can't see how our midfield will be strong enough to win ~12 games next year.

Yes you are quite right. However, even with Pavlich going forward (I'd still expect to see Pavlich part-time in the midfield btw), I think the midfield this season with the inclusion of Crowley, Palmer and Morabito is an improvement. Plus I think the attitudes of players like DeBoer, Hill and Suban will help insure they don't go backwards.

Peake is the only player we have lost from our midfield.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

part of being a dockers supporter is to never take anything for granted, therefore i will never just expect things to work out for us because they never do

our spine is good,

our defence is ok

our midfield is below average (hill, suban, palmer and ibbotson could all be stars, but until they develop, we will continue to be a below average midfield. hasleby is ok, but not the star he used to be, mundy and schammer are agin in the ok category, crowley is a good tagger, other than that we have not much else)

our forward line is good


all of this points to me that we are still a below averag side, leaving us in the 9th-12th area of the ladder

 

[prattsta]

We finished 14th last season and only won 6 games. Despite the pre-season love in where all our players - particularly the young ones - get overrated, we have a lot of weaknesses. If we can win 10 games, improve on the road and not suffer any thrashings I'd be pretty happy.

So you think it is a form thing? I guess that is why I am saying that finals is the pass mark, because if the team is structurally fairly sound, then win/loss is the measuring stick.

Win/Loss record, yes. Finals, no.

Depending on other results we could win 10 games and make the finals, or alternatively, we could win 11 games and miss the finals. It's fair enough to say we should win 'X' number of games but unless that X = 13+ then finals are no guarantee for anyone.

 

[E Shed]

Wow there is some serious doom and gloom in this thread.
We are the perpetual cellar dwellers, we will never play finals again!
I've had the theory sometimes that we are karmically fated to be forever awful and those of us cursed to follow Freo are atoning for some awful arrogance in a past life. It's hard not to think of exotic rationalisations when you follow a team as bad as Freo.
But isn't this the off season? The time for blind optimism?
Personally I think Alfonz has it right. It's our lack of experienced, hard bodied quality in the middle that will be most telling. Assuming we aren't hit by injury to our best players but as 2006 showed us if you get a run on and a group of players clicks at the same time anything can happen.

 

[cp3_jr]

I think a few people are being a bit too optomistic about our chances next season. I would be surprised if we finished anywhere better than 10th and expect us to be between 10th and 14th. I think it will take atleast another 2 years until we are a legitimate threat in the competition. This is not doom and gloom it is reality imo.

Having said that the future is looking very promising but it is exactly that at this stage just promise so I wouldnt be expecting too much this season. I know it is frustrating considering the years of disappointment we have experienced but we are on the way up imo although it is very unlikely we will shoot straight up this season into the 8.