Melbourne weak reaction in the 2000 Grand Final..........

[Krakeour Magic]

I'm sure most footballers with an indigenous background both past and present don't feel that way about Michael Long, including those that share the surname Krakouer. Know Phil rather well, might have to ask him next time I see him. Pity you can't spell their name right.

I know both the brothers well mate, so make sure you leave your name so I know who the message came from. I know for a fact that they have never resorted to bludging on their cultural background in the shameless manner that Long has.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

During that season I always maintained that it was those guys that won us the flag. Lloyd, Lucas, Hird etc were always going to get the quality defenders and it was those guys the opposition struggled to cover.

Sheeds was on SEN this morning and said that it was having to trade those three plus Hardwick that pulled the heart out of the club.

Sheedy's greatest mistake is that he always preferred skill over hardness.

It definitely cost E$$endon flags.

Just look at Roger Merret. HUUUUUGE F&^%*up

 

[pazza]

Sheedy's greatest mistake is that he always preferred skill over hardness.

It definitely cost E$$endon flags.

Just look at Roger Merret. HUUUUUGE F&^%*up

Another case of only half of the story ever being told.

Merrett was due for his 150th game at the end of 1987. He had played both premierships (was arguably close to Norm Smith Medallist in '85).

With Essendon not going to make the finals and with Merrett doubtful with injury, Sheedy and co thought it wise to give a kid a try. This kid had racked up some 99 games in the Reserves, since arriving in 1984. His name: Gary O'Donnell. We all know the rest.

As for demanding skill over hardness - turn it up. Sheedy himself admitted that he always loved the fact of having cowboys around the club.

But, he also had to make very hard decisions too...if you want to criticise him, you could cite Ron Andrews in 1983 - but, his time was perhaps up in any event - and he did one thing every dons fans would forgive him for - saving Billy Duckworth's bacon in the '84 Prelim (whilst Rotten Ronnie was at Collingwood). Essendon perhaps would not have won the '84 flag if Andrews had not of kept Duckworth in line the previous week (and Duckworth ultimately receiving the '84 Norm Smith in the process).

In my time following the side, Sheedy got the following blokes over, who certainly weren't shrinking violets:

Cameron Clayton - ex-Richmond team-mate - gave Dipper a biff during the '83 season (as payback for Dipper whacking Alan Stoneham in the previous encounter) and then was part of the Doull headband saga come finals time with Tony Buhagiar!

Bryan Wood - another ex-Tiger. Watch the '85 grand final and his performance on the Dipper...throw in the involvement the Essendon v Sydney eye-gouging controversy in 1986 too.

Dean Wallis - we know how wild he was.

Roger Merrett - Don Scott will never live the "Hitman" comment down. Sheedy gave Merrett confidence to be a champion.

And there were plenty more throughout 27 magnificent years.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

With Essendon not going to make the finals and with Merrett doubtful with injury, Sheedy and co thought it wise to give a kid a try. This kid had racked up some 99 games in the Reserves, since arriving in 1984. His name: Gary O'Donnell. We all know the rest.

LOL, nobody does revisionism like an Essendon supporter.

Are you implying that Gary O'Donnell would not have got a game if Merret had not been traded?

 

[pazza]

LOL, nobody does revisionism like an Essendon supporter.

Are you implying that Gary O'Donnell would not have got a game if Merret had not been traded?

He would not have played Round 22 in 1987 had Merrett played that day - who knows where O'Donnell would have ended up if he wasn't given the shot that he actually earned.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

He would not have played Round 22 in 1987 had Merrett played that day - who knows where O'Donnell would have ended up if he wasn't given the shot that he actually earned.

I've finally heard it all.

 

[pazza]

I've finally heard it all.

Well it's the actual truth - and it comes straight from one person - Kevin Sheedy himself in his first book.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

Cameron Clayton - ex-Richmond team-mate - gave Dipper a biff during the '83 season (as payback for Dipper whacking Alan Stoneham in the previous encounter) and then was part of the Doull headband saga come finals time with Tony Buhagiar!

Who?

Buhagiar?

Was this on the midget wrestling?

Bryan Wood - another ex-Tiger. Watch the '85 grand final and his performance on the Dipper...throw in the involvement the Essendon v Sydney eye-gouging controversy in 1986 too.

Are you taking the piss?

Bryan Wood was a decent wingman but would not make a list of the top 500 hard blokes in VFL/AFL history.

There would have been 12 blokes tougher than him in the great Richmond sides he played in.

Dean Wallis - we know how wild he was.

Yeah, made a career as a hardman by running through that ruthless desperado, Mil Hanna. What a tough guy.

Roger Merrett - Don Scott will never live the "Hitman" comment down. Sheedy gave Merrett confidence to be a champion.

And there were plenty more throughout 27 magnificent years.

That's it?

One tough guy, Roger Merret and one pretend tough guy, Dean Wallis.

Mate, if that is the extent of what you can highlight over 27 years, then I need not address my point any longer.

 

[pazza]

Who?

Buhagiar?

Was this on the midget wrestling?

Born before the '90s I'd hazard a guess. Clayton was a Sheedy team-mate from 1974. He had this ability to get under the skin of opponents. there is vision from round 19 1983 where at Windy Hill, Clayton is clearly seen giving Dipper a nice old fashioned whack (Landy's commentary of the day "look at Dipierdomenico's face"). Buhagiar was the bloke Sheedy recruited from Perth who was a cheeky little bastard. I'm sure older Dogs fans will remember some of his hijinx on and end of season trip in '85 (the famous one with Captain Gronewegen)

Are you taking the piss?

Bryan Wood was a decent wingman but would not make a list of the top 500 hard blokes in VFL/AFL history.

There would have been 12 blokes tougher than him in the great Richmond sides he played in.

Geez i dunno about that...he stood toe-to-toe with Brent Crosswell one day when playing for Richmond.

Yeah, made a career as a hardman by running through that ruthless desperado, Mil Hanna. What a tough guy.

Plenty of other incidents he got involved in - ask Steven Kretiuk about the day Wallis decided to kick him! Got 6 weeks for that 1.

 

[Longy413]

I saw him take 5 backward steps down a flight of stairs at Billboards one night when Chris Tarrant whent whack.

You didn't see it at all.

I know both the brothers well mate, so make sure you leave your name so I know who the message came from. I know for a fact that they have never resorted to bludging on their cultural background in the shameless manner that Long has.

Pull your head in, that's an absolute load of crap.

Sheedy's greatest mistake is that he always preferred skill over hardness.

What???

Sheeds probably preferred a story over the logical decision, but not skill over hardness.

All he wanted was hardness, he's said a number of times that you don't win flags without animals. That's why he got Kink, it's why he wanted to get Pike.

He actually went out and targeted young players with big bodies, Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson, Dean Solomon.

That's why he got Watson and Salmon out of retirement. He recruited Barnes back. They might not be enforcers, but they were hard bodies. Two of them paid off with flags.

Cost us flags? Maybe. But he won us four.
No one saw two flags coming within his first five seasons when he took over.
No one saw a flag coming in 1993.

For such a failure, he did some good things.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

Pull your head in, that's an absolute load of crap.

Not one word of that post is a lie.

Not a single jot.

What???

Sheeds probably preferred a story over the logical decision, but not skill over hardness.

All he wanted was hardness, he's said a number of times that you don't win flags without animals. That's why he got Kink, it's why he wanted to get Pike.

He actually went out and targeted young players with big bodies, Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson, Dean Solomon.

That's why he got Watson and Salmon out of retirement. He recruited Barnes back. They might not be enforcers, but they were hard bodies. Two of them paid off with flags.

Watson, Salmon and Barnes?

I am seriously roffling now.

Cost us flags? Maybe. But he won us four.
No one saw two flags coming within his first five seasons when he took over.


No one saw a flag coming in 1993.

For such a failure, he did some good things.

He inherited 2 flags in the 80's, fluked one in the 90's and delivered one with what is widely recognised as the greatest underachieving side in history in 2000.

 

[Longy413]

Not one word of that post is a lie.

Not a single jot.

The implication that Long has bludged and not made an impact for his people is a pure lie.

Watson, Salmon and Barnes?

I am seriously roffling now.

That's because you have a serious misunderstanding of what I was talking about. I'm not surprised.

You see hardness as the ability to throw a punch, rather than the ability to put your body on the line or to just protect those that aren't yet developed. Sheedy consistently drafted those types of players of his career.

Of course, I expected you to nitpick rather than taking the concept as a whole.

He inherited 2 flags in the 80's, fluked one in the 90's and delivered one with what is widely recognised as the greatest underachieving side in history in 2000.

Salmon, Harvey, Thompson, Weston, Duckworth, Bradbury, Wood, Baker, Ezard, Walsh, Elshaugh.

That's half the side.

Sheedy inherited some players, he built (with Judkins) a back-to-back premiership side.

Not sure he inherited the 3/4 time result of the 84 GF either.
"This is Kevin Sheedy's Grand Final"


Do you think Essendon of 1999 was better than North Melbourne of 1999, or Essendon of 2001 was better than Brisbane of 2001?

 

[Leapingleobarry]

There seems to be a pattern with Essendon in Grand finals. I'm surprised Michael Long was the one to do it in 2000, but is there any co-incidence that in 1990 Gavin Brown was ko'd and Mil Manna copped the same in 1993. I'd probably suggest not.

 

[Longy413]

There seems to be a pattern with Essendon in Grand finals.

We've won a lot of them?

It probably isn't a co-incidence.
Watson was knocked out in 83 and Sheedy didn't take to it well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a reaction thereafter.

That said, Wallis on Hanna was legal and I doubt Long's bump was a directive.

Walsh was also knocked out in a GF, so we've copped a couple ourselves.

 

[wba1977]

I know both the brothers well mate, so make sure you leave your name so I know who the message came from. I know for a fact that they have never resorted to bludging on their cultural background in the shameless manner that Long has.

Why sit around bludging when you can be a productive member of society trafficking drugs?

 

[Blind Turn]

Why sit around bludging when you can be a productive member of society trafficking drugs?

touche

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Today you could be right - the softness of today's footy would have seen Long miss plenty. Back then, 4 weeks was perhaps excessive - and remember Long did go and see Simmonds in hospital in the days after it happened and Simmonds himself accepted it as part of footy.

I seriously doubt this. I remember at the time in the media, there was a big deal being made of a written apology Long had sent to Simmonds. Simmonds dismissed this, saying something to the effect of "Long's not intelligent enough to write that."

 

[eldorado]

I watched it with about 6 mates (3 hawks, 3 other team's supporters, no Bombers or Demons)

ALL of us commented at the time how weak the response from Melbourne was. It as a Grand Final.

I'm sure a lot of them regret it. If they had their time again, they would have shown some fire, I'd reckon...

 

[Bennett.]

Walsh was also knocked out in a GF, so we've copped a couple ourselves.

Courtsey of a raised and very directed elbow at his head from one of the dirtiest snipers to ever play the game.

 

[Lord_Travis]

The fact that we lost the prelim or Essendon pumped us had nothing to do with it. If Long had done that to one of our lot in the Gf he would of been killed. The Melbourne reaction was a joke. You reckon Carey, pike, archer, martyn, Pickett, Stevens would of let that happen without reprise.

Actually from the rumours that have been circulating about the 2000 GF, North had planned a biffo outbreak ala Geelong v Hawks 1989 GF if we had made it. Supposedly we weren't happy at favourable treatment being handed out to the Likes of Pretty Boy Hird by the Ump's and North intended to even the ledger in the GF through some old fashioned biffo.

Brilliant. So, seeing as you were clearly an inferior team to both those that beat you and made the Grand Final, you'd start a brawl to compensate for your lack of skill and ability to win a game? At the end of the day, the game is football, and who gives a flying f*ck how tough someone is. Your team would've lost that day because it was a worse football team, and both Essendon and Melbourne have either won, or gone closer to winning a flag than North has this last 10 years.
Hope you're enjoying this ridiculous discussion about being thugs over sportsman.

As for Long, I wasn't happy about his hit on Troy Simmonds that day. BUT it was a Grand Final. On the biggest day of them all, you go hard and do whatever it takes to win, and that's what he did. The guy was a great footballer and is remembered as such, just like the Essendon side of 2000; Hard, skilled, and one of the greatest we've seen.

 

[Longy413]

Brilliant. So, seeing as you were clearly an inferior team to both those that beat you and made the Grand Final, you'd start a brawl to compensate for your lack of skill and ability to win a game? At the end of the day, the game is football, and who gives a flying f*ck how tough someone is. Your team would've lost that day because it was a worse football team, and both Essendon and Melbourne have either won, or gone closer to winning a flag than North has this last 10 years.
Hope you're enjoying this ridiculous discussion about being thugs over sportsman.

As for Long, I wasn't happy about his hit on Troy Simmonds that day. BUT it was a Grand Final. On the biggest day of them all, you go hard and do whatever it takes to win, and that's what he did. The guy was a great footballer and is remembered as such, just like the Essendon side of 2000; Hard, skilled, and one of the greatest we've seen.

There is no place for common sense in this thread. Move along thanks...

 

[Krakeour Magic]

Interested to hear former Essendon Captain Matthew Lloyd and Essendon supporter Mark Robinson both refer to the current Essendon line up as downhill skiers today on SEN.

Anyone else catch it?

 

[Crow-mo]

you're the one recreating history here, champ. Outside the parochial internet wastelands, Long is universally acknowledged as an all-time great

no he's not, his playing career is fairly absent of any real recognition.

no B&F's, one AA. that's not an all time great.

he's had a cultural impact sure, but that's not the same thing.

 

[Jade]

Some of the things people say on BigFooty - unbelievable.

Michael Long did the wrong thing on grand final day 2000, and he copped his right whack for it. The penalties for such an infringement are indeed heavier now, but he got what he got.

He is also one of the most universally respected people in the AFL. Both for his abillity on the field, and possibly more important, his stance on racism which was the catalyst of change in the AFL. The AFL may be the most racism free sport in the world - and Michael Long had no small part to play in that.

As for Melbourne, they could have possibly fought back more then they did - but they were losing that game anyway.

It is rich, that a North Melbourne fan would accuse Melbourne of being weak.

As reigning premier, North Melbourne put up the least amount of opposition to Essendon then any team in the league. Weak.

Almost any other supporter in the league MIGHT have been able to argue that Melbourne didn't show enough fight. But a supporter of the one team that SHOULD have fought and failed more then any other should probably look in their own backyard.

 

[Krakeour Magic]

He is also one of the most universally respected people in the AFL.

This is an invention of the media.

It has no basis in reality.