Collingwood List Management Thread

[DermiesLuvChild]

whats the point talking about guys like trent west, zac clarke etc they're not going anywhere....plus it is a bit early to be getting really excited about trent west, has done bugger all so far.....
and if anyone thinks we can package up a fringe player like buckley/mccarthy with our 1st round and ship it off to one of the teams in contention they're kidding themselves. Teams like geelong, hawthorn etc are not going to go out of their way to recruit blokes like mccarthy, buckley et al. These guys are more suited to clubs where they can get a consistent opportunity, where a club has a specific weakness.

Dont think we'll be looking for a ruck regardless, we'll just muddle through, wood, ceglar, jolly, witts is enough, possibly with macnamara also (who i actually rate, possibly one of the only ones who do)

Agree that Collingwood will not add to our ruck division.
I hope they give McNamara another year on the rookie list - he is improving & I think he deserves the opportunity - he loves it.
If (& I mean if) Buckley & McCarthy were to move on (better opportunities) then I think that GWS is an obvious home, they need some hard bodied & or experienced AFL footballers that wont cost them too much (like Stanley at Goldcoast). Having said that I still think that they add good depth to the Collingwood list (top 30).

 

[mattyspies]

So you guys think our ruck division is strong enough, that we don't need to get another ruckman? Cause i don't know whether you guys watched the last two matches but we have been dominated in the ruck. Cam wood will never be a player that you will back as a good forward or ruckman come finals (exactly like josh fraser). Leigh Mathews is of the opinion that we have weakest ruck division of all the teams in the finals. I would have to agree with him; and that i think is a worry.

 

[Torpy]

Cam Wood provides adequate backup to Jolly IMO. Keep in mind that not many 'established' ruckman will want to play 2nd fiddle, which they will have to be since Jolly will remain no. 1 ruck until he retires in 2 years or so (when his contract runs out).

We don't really need to draft another young ruckman since we have Witts coming in, and we still have to develop Ceglar as well. I know a lot of people want to delist McNamara, but I think he is worth persisting with as well, maybe redraft as a mature aged rookie? Do the rules allow an international rookie to be rerookied as a mature aged recruit?

 

[jonbe54]

So you guys think our ruck division is strong enough, that we don't need to get another ruckman? Cause i don't know whether you guys watched the last two matches but we have been dominated in the ruck. Cam wood will never be a player that you will back as a good forward or ruckman come finals (exactly like josh fraser). Leigh Mathews is of the opinion that we have weakest ruck division of all the teams in the finals. I would have to agree with him; and that i think is a worry.

Matty good ruckmen who are content to play second fiddle just don't grow on trees you know. If a bloke is good enough to carry the ruck duties he wants to do it as 1st ruck - its human nature mate.

Add to this the sub rule which means a club really can't afford to carry a second specialist ruckman and what you are looking for is a needle in a haystack.

Wood is far from ideal as second string but any reasonably young, mobile, ruck/forward ruck/back options out there are Woods level or would cost us more than we would be able/ want to part with in terms of picks/players.

 

[Snoop Dog]

05 draft was pretty reasonable. 04 was terrible draft though.

My feeling is this year is probably closest to 2009. Shouldn't be terrible but lacks the super high end quality KPPs.

Still some gems late in that 04 draft like Le Cras, Gwilt, Knights, Egan but I think we are making the same point. I am not convinced this is as bad a draft as '04 and '05. Not sure about Downie given we have got Witts. I do like Seb Ross though and i think some reasonable talls will be available around that 1st pick. As you say Markworth would be there and Ellis could well be there as well. I would hold onto it.

 

[HFF]

Just want some expert opinion from either Snoop or Knight here or whoever else is a keen list management watcher.

What do you think our strategy will be this year, gut feel wise?

Are we more likely to trade for established players or even attempt to bid for a chance at a 17yr old or are we going to just sit tight and take our chances with the picks we have this year and go the draft?

 

[the distributer]

Just want some expert opinion from either Snoop or Knight here or whoever else is a keen list management watcher.

What do you think our strategy will be this year, gut feel wise?

Are we more likely to trade for established players or even attempt to bid for a chance at a 17yr old or are we going to just sit tight and take our chances with the picks we have this year and go the draft?

I don't think we'll be active during trade week, no point really, i think we should go after a quality VFL KF through the draft though, if Trav or Dawes goes down we don't have anyone even close to being ready to replace them, if we wan't a big fish that big fish will cost a big fish so i don't see the point, i think we'll keep hold of our picks this year and only trade if a player wants to be traded.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Who says you'll be guaranteed a route with Miss Universe? Keeping one eye on the here and now and the other on the future is the best way to stay ahead of the pack.

It's why Geelong have stayed up for so long and don't look like going away any time soon with guys like Christenson, Duncan, Menzel, Hunt, Vardy and West showing quite a bit.

Whereas Essendon and Brisbane have had no success for a sustained period since their glory years because they got too caught up in their "greatness"!

Good post.

So you guys think our ruck division is strong enough, that we don't need to get another ruckman? Cause i don't know whether you guys watched the last two matches but we have been dominated in the ruck. Cam wood will never be a player that you will back as a good forward or ruckman come finals (exactly like josh fraser). Leigh Mathews is of the opinion that we have weakest ruck division of all the teams in the finals. I would have to agree with him; and that i think is a worry.

But we can't fix that by doing the same mistake we did in trading for Cameron Wood. Trying to fix our ruck problems by trading our 1st pick for an unproved 2nd ruckman? Too big of a risk. We made a good move in trading for Jolly, helped us immensely but we've been hampered by his form this year. He needs to do some hard yards in the pre-season this year and get his body right. All we can do now, is rely on Ceglar and Witts to develop into decent future ruckman in a couple years and hope that Wood can do the same next year.

Just want some expert opinion from either Snoop or Knight here or whoever else is a keen list management watcher.

What do you think our strategy will be this year, gut feel wise?

Are we more likely to trade for established players or even attempt to bid for a chance at a 17yr old or are we going to just sit tight and take our chances with the picks we have this year and go the draft?

I'm no keen list management watcher but these are my 2 cents;

I reckon we're more interested in keeping our list together then trying to fix any holes in our list. Because tbh we don't really have any gaping holes atm, we have some good youngsters at the club all over the ground. The only massive hole we have are our key forward stocks. Now that Leigh Brown is retiring, we have no one with experience to cover for Dawes or Cloke. I can see the club grooming Tarrant into a forward role over the pre-season since we are getting N.Brown back and having Keefe play backup for Brown and Reid. Or we may do the opposite and continue with grooming Keefe into a key forward. I think a good move is to find a mature key forward player in the VFL just in case Dawes or Cloke gets injured.

 

[jonbe54]

Hey banana I don't know if you're old enough to remember Taz in his final year as a forward for the Pies but I for one certainly wouldn't want to go through that heartache again. He gets the yips bad and no forward can afford that.

He's okay as a switch hitter as he has been used this season occasionally but full time? No thank you very much!

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Hey banana I don't know if you're old enough to remember Taz in his final year as a forward for the Pies but I for one certainly wouldn't want to go through that heartache again. He gets the yips bad and no forward can afford that.

He's okay as a switch hitter as he has been used this season occasionally but full time? No thank you very much!

Haha thanks for that, tbh I won't know too much about football before 2009 (when I attended my first football game).

But will be interesting to see with the back 6 with Nathan Brown coming back and see who will be missing out or possibly a position change. But most likely we'll be suffering at least one injury from the back 6 next year.

 

[jonbe54]

Haha thanks for that, tbh I won't know too much about football before 2009 (when I attended my first football game).

But will be interesting to see with the back 6 with Nathan Brown coming back and see who will be missing out or possibly a position change. But most likely we'll be suffering at least one injury from the back 6 next year.

I think we will see a little shifting about actually freshy my bet is for Heater to spend more time upfield and lets not forget that if we win the granny there's a bloody good chance Leon will retire. Added to that Johnno is surely in the twilight of his career and may surprise by pulling the plug if we salute this year again.

 

[OneEyedPie7]

We will build through the draft once again. Hine and co will assess the state of our list and act accordingly to correct any potential problems. Essentially we have one clear position in the best 22 opening up, being Leigh Browns. I think we can expect Cam Wood to be given first crack at that spot. Personally I think Wood has been more than serviceable this year and it would be a shame to see years of development wasted. I fully expect him to become a good player when he is given a permanent place in the lineup.

The future of Ben Johnson is another worth contemplating. I expect him to continue for another season, but there is a possibility he could hang them up. We have a strong contingent of running types, so we should be able to cover him should he cease playing

I am not buying into a need for a key forward from the second tier competitions. While Travis and Dawes are important to our structure, the hallmark of our game has been our goal-kicking spread. If we were totally reliant on our power forwards to kick a score, than we would have some concerns. I have no doubt Hine will consider some key forwards during the draft period, but I don't expect them to be a priority in his recruiting strategy.

The most important thing is keeping a stable list together, which has been paramount to our rise to AFL champions.

A team that finished 20-2 has no reason to go chasing players. Stick to the system you know best and let performance dictate any need to change the current direction.

 

[OneEyedPie7]

Haha thanks for that, tbh I won't know too much about football before 2009 (when I attended my first football game).

But will be interesting to see with the back 6 with Nathan Brown coming back and see who will be missing out or possibly a position change. But most likely we'll be suffering at least one injury from the back 6 next year.

Tarrant has good athleticism, so he will have no problem marking small and medium forwards.

 

[vjknight]

Worrying about the list next year is a bit like working out how youŕe going to have sex next year when you have Miss Universe coming around for dinner in 3 weeks.....r ..

oh great, i finally get miss universe popping over and its the one year its not some central american honey.

 

[jonbe54]

oh great, i finally get miss universe popping over and its the one year its not some central american honey.

Lol vj don't worry about the popcorn waiting on the mantlepiece while the steak is burning on the fire

 

[rustyg70]

What about going after Kosi to fill Browns roll?

 

[HFF]

What about going after Kosi to fill Browns roll?

Judging how they rated Luke Ball before we turned him around and demanded the world for him, the cost would be far too much.

So, no thanks.

 

[Shade]

What about going after Kosi to fill Browns roll?

Spud of the highest order

 

[rustyg70]

Spud of the highest order

Thats what they said about Brown though.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

No footy awareness, I mean FFS even the interchange line has him beat

 

[rustyg70]

Im not saying throw the kitchen sink at him.
Im just saying if we could pick him up for,say, a pick in the late 30s or 40s,
he could be very handy.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Just want some expert opinion from either Snoop or Knight here or whoever else is a keen list management watcher.

What do you think our strategy will be this year, gut feel wise?

Are we more likely to trade for established players or even attempt to bid for a chance at a 17yr old or are we going to just sit tight and take our chances with the picks we have this year and go the draft?

Look these questions are hard bc there are so many factors to consider that we wouldnt be privy to and having seen how it works at this level its very difficult to predict and is quite fluid. At this stage (and I have no intel on the Pies at all) I suspect they will go with best available and have the minimum number of selections.

I think the two selections will come from Leigh Brown and Trent Stubbs. In addition I dont think Witts and Hartley will go on the senior list and I dont think there will be any upgrades. Its likely one of Caf, Goldy, Macca will want greener pastures so a selection might come via that as well. On top of that maybe Leon goes home or there is a retirement we are not expecting (eg Johno). Personally most likely outcome is Brown and Stubbs with another draft selection from a trade.

Why not others

My views are based on what I see and think. In addition to form I know Pies look closely at things like overall age of group, breadth of height / weight, games played etc and you would be amazed how much work goes into it. In addition they will look at players injuries and whether they can overcome them etc (Dick will be an example of that just as Rusling was).

Dick - Our tackle pressure inside fwd 50 has fallen this year according to the stats and I think that is bc we missed the pace / harrassment /tackling of Leon who had the highest # tackles in fwd 50 in the league last year. If Dicks shoulders can cope he should stay on list but it will be a medical call I suspect. If he is cleared they will keep him.

[Farmer - average 1st year but showed enough.

Ceglar - I would keep him bc he showed enough at stages and can play fwd which is valuable but I think Witts will pass him quickly.

Wood - Still the best back up for Jolly but doesnt have much longer unless significant improvement. Premiership window is open and with Jolly knees going Wood is a must.

Buckley - Not sure on him bc I think the club would say he went ok but I think Tom Young and Luke Rounds showed enough to suggest they provide a better future than Simon.

Rookies

Of the rookies I would delist McNamara, Hunter, Reed and perham. Its a hard call on Reed but we have so much depth there. Perhams not worked at FF and was sent back late and frankly isnt tall enough. I cant see McNamaras kicking being elite enough but I will admit he could be worth another year as he can play fwd and is very agile.

Draft Approach

Collingwoods view seems a little different to some other clubs. Collingwood's view tends to be 'best available' and then address any 'needs' via the rookie (ie last year when they took smalls in the National Draft and talls in the rookie). Only year when they didnt do that was when they get Reid, Brown and Dawes with first 3 picks. Other clubs will look at a combination of the two all the way thru (eg Carlton last year were very prescriptive about taking talls in the first few selections - that not saying they dont go best available its just they tend to weight it a bit more highly).

Who would I take

Their draft approach has worked really well so I think they just go with best available. I am also not a huge subscriber to the majority view that it is a poor draft. I think there are some very good players who could get taken beyond #25 (ie first 25 largely pick themselves as always) and would be terrific prospects. For example I am pretty keen on some of the taller prospects like Paine, Tomlinson and Frost and I dont think they will be gone by then and possibly would be around later. At this stage (and I havent seen testing results yet) I would hope Ellis falls to our first pick and one of the above were there at the 2nd pick. But look lots of players I like who would be keen on who will most likely be there post #30 - 50 so am pretty keen to see how it plays out.

Rookies

I would add Witts and Hartley to the rookie list and then take a couple of needs based players or those that have dropped that they rate hhighly or a kid who has a lot of potential but hasnt played much (eg Bolton / Seedsman). Hine is bloody good at picking these types.


.....hopefully that wasnt to long but shoudl give a quick overview of how clubs look at it.

 

[rustyg70]

What are the chances of Buckley making Woods our number one ruck and having Jolly start in the forward line and becoming our second ruck?
Jolly can take a grab and kick goals.

 

[TradeDraft]

I think the two selections will come from Leigh Brown and Trent Stubbs. In addition I dont think Witts and Hartley will go on the senior list and I dont think there will be any upgrades.

I think Witts would be Put on the Senior List Espically with L Brown Retiring but Putting him on the Rookie List would be the Best for The List.

Hartley would be on the Rookie List unless we don't even Select Him

 

[rustyg70]

Anybody know whats happening with Brad Dick?
Has he been seen doing any training around the club?
Is he going to be part of the Pies plan going forward?
I really hope he stays and gets over his constant injury concerns.