Collingwood List Management Thread

[Number 10]

If Gunstan has quit the club - is this a Luke Ball situation where he goes into the draft again?

Or has he just asked to be traded?

 

[Knightmare]

Knight, what about Pyke or lilse to fill the Anvils role?

Pyke is a really interesting one and not a terrible suggestion.

Tap work good. Physically very strong and can play now and can see what you are thinking. Tackling is good. Still probably despite age is still a bit of a project in so much as awareness isn't quite there. Also marking not great. Probably a better no.1 ruckman for mine since he can't really go forward and take a great deal of marks or offer a whole lot of versatility.

Could be a cheaper option since he isn't a regular which makes him a viable option. Wouldn't be up the top of my list though.

Yeah I can see why you like them but for different reasons probably no.

Sellar might be that guy but I think you ultimately want someone that can hurt up fwd and I dont think Sellar can. Fwds need that extra yard of pace and Sellar lacks it for mine. In terms of Stewart more left field but he is agile, he can plasy as a 3rd tall but can he ruck - probably not physical enough.

Personally I would look at Trinity Handley...if you get to see some footage of him take the time. He is 27 and i dont think he will land on a list but would be a great stop gap rookie listed player. If he was on the Hawks list right now and Bailey and Buddy didnt play Saturday he would get in.

What do we think Essendon will do with Gumbleton. If I were them I would use him as trade bait along with one of Hille, Ryder, Bellchambers for a decent outside midfielder.

Don't disagree with your thoughts re Sellar + Stewart. I've got them both in my worst case scenario box where they could come, but they aren't necessarily great options. Just cheap ok choices.

Haven't seen Handley play. Would be keen to see footage if there was any on the net. Looking online is a 192cm. Bit short for an AFL ruck? More a kpp/mid from what I can tell.

Gumbleton is very interesting. High pick. VERY injury prone. Certainly not one I'd be trading into for Coll - even as depth. Ess should put him onto the market since Joe Daniher is coming along soon and looks like a nice long term improvement. Maybe as a key forward. Maybe as a no.2 ruckman.
Certainly trading one of Hille/Ryder/Bellchambers would be logical for Ess. Hille is nearing the end and doesn't have any value.
Ryder might be the right trade choice - has value around the league based on athleticism and perceived upside you'd think they could get a fair return. Bellchambers is probably a better ruckman and the logical one to persist with and build into a no.1 ruckman.

If Gunstan has quit the club - is this a Luke Ball situation where he goes into the draft again?

Or has he just asked to be traded?

No. Just asked to be traded. Any of the Vic clubs can go after him and most will likely be interested.

Would that win a Bidding War?

Pick 25 might not be the best clubs offer Gunston. But since he was pick 29 and is still a developing tall who is a fair way off trading much more than our 1st rounder is probably a little much.

Certainly as others have suggested 1st rounder + Buckley/McCarthy could be suitable type trades if we decide to go after him - which I'm not opposed to.

 

[rustyg70]

I'd be chasing Jesse White from Sydney.
He can play ruck and forward.
He's a perfect replacement for Leigh Brown.
Not to sure what the Swans would want in return though.
Any ideas??

 

[Daicos Mullets]

I'd be chasing Jesse White from Sydney.
He can play ruck and forward.
He's a perfect replacement for Leigh Brown.
Not to sure what the Swans would want in return though.
Any ideas??

Probably the biggest knock against Jesse White is his lack of physical presence & failure to impose himself on contests. I wouldn't consider him a perfect replacement for Leigh Brown.

 

[Old Spice]

Well Gunstan looked bleh in that footage. Dishing off repeatedly as a fwd.

Presumably he's gotten much better and is not as sluggish, if not, why bother? Be curious to see his footage around goals.

I liked the look of Jesse White early on, but haven't seen him recently. Anyone know why he's got little game time?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I don't think we should be looking into nabbing another ruckman. We'd have to give our first pick for any kind of ruckman, won't matter if they are unproven or not.

I assumed that with Leigh Brown retiring, either him or the club has decided that Wood is ready to step up to the plate. Or maybe not.

Anyways I'd be happy retaining our first pick or fringe player, and playing Wood and Jolly next season.

Some of you made good points that both ruckman can only do well if they play as the no.1 ruckman role. Will be interesting to see how this pans out next year.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

I don't think we should be looking into nabbing another ruckman. We'd have to give our first pick for any kind of ruckman, won't matter if they are unproven or not.

I assumed that with Leigh Brown retiring, either him or the club has decided that Wood is ready to step up to the plate. Or maybe not.

Anyways I'd be happy retaining our first pick or fringe player, and playing Wood and Jolly next season.

Some of you made good points that both ruckman can only do well if they play as the no.1 ruckman role. Will be interesting to see how this pans out next year.

I agree. We cover Brown retirement within (Wood then Celgar, Witts).
Time for us to use our first round pick in the draft, we have traded our first round picks last two years - which has worked out very well - Jolly+Krak, however time to inject some more youth (best available player at pick 24-26).

 

[the distributer]

Who ever gets Gunstan will be paying massive overs in terms of salary, it won't be us.

 

[HFF]

Gunston certainly is promising but he won't be coming to us.

The reality is, he will be moving to a club that will guarantee him first team football- this is something we cannot offer him exclusively with out current twin tower set up in Dawes and Cloke.

Also, he'll get a pretty good deal $$$$ wise with both North and the Hawks very keen.

 

[Wooljay]

Why would North be all that keen? I can understand by the Hawks would be, but doesn't North have enough developing KPP talent as it is?

 

[Snoop Dog]

Don't disagree with your thoughts re Sellar + Stewart. I've got them both in my worst case scenario box where they could come, but they aren't necessarily great options. Just cheap ok choices.

Haven't seen Handley play. Would be keen to see footage if there was any on the net. Looking online is a 192cm. Bit short for an AFL ruck? More a kpp/mid from what I can tell.

Gumbleton is very interesting. High pick. VERY injury prone. Certainly not one I'd be trading into for Coll - even as depth. Ess should put him onto the market since Joe Daniher is coming along soon and looks like a nice long term improvement. Maybe as a key forward.

Havent seen his height listing but plays taller than that. Saw most of his games in Foxtel Cup / some WAFL games and plays CHF / CHB / Ruck / Deep fwd. Was v good last weekend.

Re Gumby - I wouldnt be surprised if he is on the table for a mid or someone like Gunston as a part of a bigger package.

 

[vjknight]

I agree. We cover Brown retirement within (Wood then Celgar, Witts).
Time for us to use our first round pick in the draft, we have traded our first round picks last two years - which has worked out very well - Jolly+Krak, however time to inject some more youth (best available player at pick 24-26).

considering our premiership window is wide open, AND we have a vast nursery called the VFL team, unless theres someone specific hine & crew are chasing i think its the right ploy again to trade away the 1st pick and seek someone ready made - maybe another KPD - as weve found this year they are worth their weight if they can at least hold down CHB while brown/reid/tarrant are out.

 

[miksmif]

G'day I know this probably isn't the place to write this but I am wondering how do I obtain a COA as I have a player authentic 2010 ANZAC guernsey signed by last years squad and a 2011 guernsey signed by the 23 players who played in last years GF. Do I get this from the collingwood club or what the process? Cheers in advance

 

[Knightmare]

Knowing this years draft really outside of the top 20 it will be incredibly difficult to pick a particularly high level player at 25/26 or wherever our 1st round selections ends up being.

I'm very much pro trading our 1st rounder.

Here's why:
1. In any other draft pick 25 or so would be a 2nd round pick.

2. Depth at 25 isn't great anyway. At 25 unless we can get Daniel Markworth or Luke Brown really every other player for mine from there on firstly isn't a going to play any games from season 1 and secondly there isn't a great deal of difference between pick 25 and pick 35 or pick 40. It's really so even from around pick 20 for probably the next 30 selections.

3. We have Witts and Hartley as bargains through either late/ rookie selections since we have priority. So it's not like we won't be adding quality young talent. Add to this quality young players like Reid, Beams, Sidebottom. Our long term looks very good and it doesn't look like we will ever have to go through a rebuild like Port Adelaide will be going through over the next couple of seasons.

4. Our premiership window is open for probably another 2-3 years. We want more premierships and with players likely to retire from Geelong let's take advantage of this before Gold Coast + GWS build into super teams!


If we can get a Trent West for pick 25 + Simon Buckley/ John McCarthy (Geelong might demand a pick as high as 10 if he finishes off this finals series strongly) I would regard this as a massive win because it improves our best 22 and makes us a better team - adding a ruckman who can play either the no.1 or no.2 ruck role now and for the next 6-8 years so that he can play with Jolly now as the no.2 man, when Jolly misses and and retires can play the no.1 role, then when Witts develops in 4 or so years time he can move back into that no.2 ruck position.

Of course there are other players who we could target - Zac Clarke, Majak Daw, Sam Gilbert, Josh Toy and the ones I would be looking at because they all look like immediate best 22 players who can make us a better team - as well as represent good value and be really nice fits into our side. Most of these probably want to stay with their current clubs, but no harm in trying since these are all really logical fits into our side. But Trent West would still be my no.1 target.



I know many like the idea of drafting. Hine has as good of a strike rate as just about any - but I wouldn't be looking at any super serious drafting this year unless we could trade into a significantly better pick - which I wouldn't recommend anyway because it means most likely giving up established players.

 

[Snoop Dog]

G'day I know this probably isn't the place to write this but I am wondering how do I obtain a COA as I have a player authentic 2010 ANZAC guernsey signed by last years squad and a 2011 guernsey signed by the 23 players who played in last years GF. Do I get this from the collingwood club or what the process? Cheers in advance

i would have thought you would have got it (asked for it) when you purchased it. If you havent then go back to where you purchased it. Suspect the club would be unwilling to unless it was a CFC function. Good luck

 

[miksmif]

i would have thought you would have got it (asked for it) when you purchased it. If you havent then go back to where you purchased it. Suspect the club would be unwilling to unless it was a CFC function. Good luck

Oh ok.. The mate is on the collingwood list and got the guernseys signed then gave them to me. He's not too sure how to get a COA (he's lazy as dog poo) haha, I'll enquire with the club I guess. Thanks

 

[Snoop Dog]

Knowing this years draft really outside of the top 20 it will be incredibly difficult to pick a particularly high level player at 25/26 or wherever our 1st round selections ends up being.

I'm very much pro trading our 1st rounder.

Here's why:
1. In any other draft pick 25 or so would be a 2nd round pick.

2. Depth at 25 isn't great anyway. At 25 unless we can get Daniel Markworth or Luke Brown really every other player for mine from there on firstly isn't a going to play any games from season 1 and secondly there isn't a great deal of difference between pick 25 and pick 35 or pick 40. It's really so even from around pick 20 for probably the next 30 selections.

3. We have Witts and Hartley as bargains through either late/ rookie selections since we have priority. So it's not like we won't be adding quality young talent. Add to this quality young players like Reid, Beams, Sidebottom. Our long term looks very good and it doesn't look like we will ever have to go through a rebuild like Port Adelaide will be going through over the next couple of seasons.

4. Our premiership window is open for probably another 2-3 years. We want more premierships and with players likely to retire from Geelong let's take advantage of this before Gold Coast + GWS build into super teams!


If we can get a Trent West for pick 25 + Simon Buckley/ John McCarthy (Geelong might demand a pick as high as 10 if he finishes off this finals series strongly) I would regard this as a massive win because it improves our best 22 and makes us a better team - adding a ruckman who can play either the no.1 or no.2 ruck role now and for the next 6-8 years so that he can play with Jolly now as the no.2 man, when Jolly misses and and retires can play the no.1 role, then when Witts develops in 4 or so years time he can move back into that no.2 ruck position.

Of course there are other players who we could target - Zac Clarke, Majak Daw, Sam Gilbert, Josh Toy and the ones I would be looking at because they all look like immediate best 22 players who can make us a better team - as well as represent good value and be really nice fits into our side. Most of these probably want to stay with their current clubs, but no harm in trying since these are all really logical fits into our side. But Trent West would still be my no.1 target.



I know many like the idea of drafting. Hine has as good of a strike rate as just about any - but I wouldn't be looking at any super serious drafting this year unless we could trade into a significantly better pick - which I wouldn't recommend anyway because it means most likely giving up established players.

Understand the logic and its plausible but unless we are going for a specific need such as a ruck / fwd then I would be thinking not. So I get the West thing and wouldnt be averse to that if it was on the cards but I very much doubt it is. I think Ottens will retire and West and Vardy become the plan for them. If its for Toy (who I rate highly) or Gilbert (who I dont rate that highly) then i wouldnt be supportive bc i think we have players coming thru who can develop and make an impact Rounds / Toy and Young / Gilbert as examples and we would be far better served using them and giving them an opportunity and keep the Rd 1 selection

I think we might be surprised what we get in this draft. Got far to much time on my hands today so was wondering how the 2005 Draft played out 6 years on (probably the weakest draft I can recollect). Its interesting to see some of the bargains that were taken late. I think this is a better draft than that year and I think we will pick up some talent late. FWIW have a look at these;

2006 Bargains

National Draft

# 26 Garrick Ibbotson / East Frem / Fremantle
# 31 Trent West / Gippsland Power / Geelong
# 32 Bernie Vince Woodville-West Torrens Adelaide
# 33 Samuel Gilbert Southport St Kilda
# 42 Robert Warnock / Sandringham Dragons / Fremantle
# 43 Andrew Swallow / East Fremantle / Kangaroos
# 44 Alipate Carlile / Murray Bushrangers / Port Adelaide
# 61 Mathew Stokes Woodville-West Torrens Geelong

Rookie Draft

# 2 Alan Toovey / Claremont / Collingwood
# 7 Paul Duffield / Fremantle / Fremantle
# 19 Lukas Markovic / Eastern Ranges / Hawthorn
# 20 Heath Hocking / East Ringwood / Essendon
# 31 Matthew Priddis / Subiaco / West Coast
# 34 Stephen Gilham / Port Adelaide / Hawthorn
# 55 Ben McGlynn Box Hill Hawks Hawthorn

Moral of the story......gems in every draft. As said I think there will be some 'Fasolo picks' this year and Hine is good at getting them. If they take a year to two thats fine we have enough talent coming through.

 

[Knightmare]

05 draft was pretty reasonable. 04 was terrible draft though.

My feeling is this year is probably closest to 2009. Shouldn't be terrible but lacks the super high end quality KPPs.

My thinking with our 1st rounder is if no appropriate trade targets come up we should trade our pick 25 to perhaps a Brisbane for two picks around 30.

Certainly after pick 20 I think there will be some very good finds. But for me after about 20 it's more the fact that it's so even that you could very easily pick up a better player at 30 than you might at 25.

Would be incredibly happy with something like Pick 30+34+Jye Bolton (rookie promote)+Jarrod Witts(Nsw promote).
With 30+31 might be willing to take a risk and go after a Tom Downie or Waylen Manson, or if we elect to go safer a Sebastian Ross or Jordan Lockyer should be available and could develop into something reasonable.

 

[mattyspies]

The way i see it, we have pick 25, which is not probably going to get us a player that's going to help us now. We definitely need to go after a 2nd ruckman/ pinch hitter role. These should be our likely targets in order of best to worst:

1) Mitch Clarke (but we are no chance me thinks)
2) Zac Clarke
3) Johnathan Griffin
4) Dawson Simpson
5) Ivan Maric (but hes a monty to go to richmond i recon)
6) Jesse White

I think personally if Mitch Clarke goes to a Perth club which he wants to, it is most likely going to be fremantle (theres a role forward there for him). Therefore one of the fremantle's second stringers is gonna want to go else where. We should throw everything at getting one of them. If the finals series has shown us anything, it is we need another big body ruckman who can compete and improve our side. The position has become increasingly important this year (this being the year of the ruckman--- and we have been found wanting badly). Most sides have better ruck setups than us. We need to offer: pick 25 + McCarthy + Cameron Wood or if Leon wants to go pick 25 + leon +McCarthy for their ruckman and a later pick 50's. I'd be going after Zac Clarke to be honest... this guy is a cross between mumford and nic nat. I recon he will be an out and out gun. Those who agree, hands up. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

 

[Ed D]

I can't see Freo trading Zac Clarke. They've put a lot of time into him and he's now a starter in their side. With Mitch Clark Brisbane are asking for a 1st round pick and an up and coming young player, plus Clark wants to be paid well. Griffen/Simpson/Maric/White, are they going to be much better than Wood? White perhaps as a forward but he's not a great player.

 

[gifted1]

whats the point talking about guys like trent west, zac clarke etc they're not going anywhere....plus it is a bit early to be getting really excited about trent west, has done bugger all so far.....
and if anyone thinks we can package up a fringe player like buckley/mccarthy with our 1st round and ship it off to one of the teams in contention they're kidding themselves. Teams like geelong, hawthorn etc are not going to go out of their way to recruit blokes like mccarthy, buckley et al. These guys are more suited to clubs where they can get a consistent opportunity, where a club has a specific weakness.

Dont think we'll be looking for a ruck regardless, we'll just muddle through, wood, ceglar, jolly, witts is enough, possibly with macnamara also (who i actually rate, possibly one of the only ones who do)

 

[Markfs]

Worrying about the list next year is a bit like working out how youŕe going to have sex next year when you have Miss Universe coming around for dinner in 3 weeks.......

 

[soreplums]

whats the point talking about guys like trent west, zac clarke etc they're not going anywhere....plus it is a bit early to be getting really excited about trent west, has done bugger all so far.....
and if anyone thinks we can package up a fringe player like buckley/mccarthy with our 1st round and ship it off to one of the teams in contention they're kidding themselves. Teams like geelong, hawthorn etc are not going to go out of their way to recruit blokes like mccarthy, buckley et al. These guys are more suited to clubs where they can get a consistent opportunity, where a club has a specific weakness.

Dont think we'll be looking for a ruck regardless, we'll just muddle through, wood, ceglar, jolly, witts is enough, possibly with macnamara also (who i actually rate, possibly one of the only ones who do)

agree...

 

[Scodog10]

Worrying about the list next year is a bit like working out how youŕe going to have sex next year when you have Miss Universe coming around for dinner in 3 weeks.......

Who says you'll be guaranteed a route with Miss Universe? Keeping one eye on the here and now and the other on the future is the best way to stay ahead of the pack.

It's why Geelong have stayed up for so long and don't look like going away any time soon with guys like Christenson, Duncan, Menzel, Hunt, Vardy and West showing quite a bit.

Whereas Essendon and Brisbane have had no success for a sustained period since their glory years because they got too caught up in their "greatness"!

 

[Old Spice]

Don't know what the shorts are on Jesse White, but for me he'd be a great pick up. Ideal back-up ruck, come forward to replace Leroy.