Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread - Part 2

[Knightmare]

Re: Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread

Knightmare, if we are to take a mature age player or two my four to look at are Dean Galea, Nathan Batszanis, Patrick Rose and Tom Sundberg whick ones do you think could make an impact as far as needs go?

I like Galea and Rose personally.

I think you are spot on with Galea and Rose. Both could be appropriate fits for us and both could fit into our forwardline.

Galea only as depth. But certainly as a key forward is no worse than Jack Anthony was and is probably a bigger physical presence and stronger mark even though he is that little bit shorter. Would be a good insurance type who could cover for injuries allot better than a Perham.

Rose I think could replace Macaffer/Medhurst as a mediumish target because he does have that strong marking ability. Is by far the best of his kind going around the VFL/ state leagues. Is a much better finisher around goal than Macaffer is and will hit the scoreboard allot more. Very LeCras like but obviously not the same level talent. Could see him very easily playing in the other forward pocket opposite Krakouer. Doesn't have the strong tackling game Macaffer has, but I think he could really push for a spot in our best 22 and possibly push past Macaffer and Blair for that forward spot.

Sundberg and Batsanis I don't think are really all that Collingwood (AFL) relevant.

I've seen Saad play a few games he could be a very good pickup up forward has electric pace and creates goals... would be VERY suprised if GWS didnt get him though as a mature but solid player whos also exciting and from a diverse background

He has been inconsistant throughout the season - but that is normal for a small forward. But I think you are right. GWS will likely want to keep him for themselves because he is a quality talent.
And why not? Is young enough to still develop with their list and be their starting small forward for the next 7 or 8 years.

 

[soreplums]

Re: Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread

Dids worries me a little. I don't know if he still has the pace to play through the midfield or even a as a high half forward anymore. As much as I would love to see him fit and play as a wingman, I think he may need to play within 50m of goal

 

[blaze036]

Re: Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread

Dids worries me a little. I don't know if he still has the pace to play through the midfield or even a as a high half forward anymore. As much as I would love to see him fit and play as a wingman, I think he may need to play within 50m of goal

He lost is after his long calf injury...

Hopefully he can spend the offseason during sprint work and get it back !!

 

[soreplums]

Re: Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread

He lost is after his long calf injury...

Hopefully he can spend the offseason during sprint work and get it back !!

I'm hoping he has 2-3 really good years in him- even if that means in a different role. I guess what worries me is when older players start having patchy performances. It can be the first sign that the body isn't holding up as consistently well as it used to.

 

[Ed D]

Re: Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread

I'm hoping he has 2-3 really good years in him- even if that means in a different role. I guess what worries me is when older players start having patchy performances. It can be the first sign that the body isn't holding up as consistently well as it used to.

This season was really no different to 2007. Didak had no preseason then and suffered all year, then backed it up with a great season (only to be internally suspended with Heath Shaw).

His pace is still there too, his fitness/confidence wasn't.

 

[Knightmare]

Didak can make it make back. Not as worried as others.

This year you have to remember he didn't get up to Arizona.

Should rebound next year.

 

[TradeDraft]

Didak can make it make back. Not as worried as others.

This year you have to remember he didn't get up to Arizona.

Should rebound next year.

Doubt he get there this Pre-Season with his Stuffed Knee

 

[soreplums]

Doubt he get there this Pre-Season with his Stuffed Knee

What's wrong with his knee?

 

[TradeDraft]

What's wrong with his knee?

He did his ACL

 

[soreplums]

In the GF?

 

[soreplums]

Thinking that what we are offering Tooves and Caff financially is with one eye on keeping those who come out of contract in 2013. O'brien, Shaw, Cloke, Pendle, Wellingham, Sidey.

 

[daics_35]

He did his ACL

WTF are you on about, it would have been in the news by now man, you got me very worried for a second.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

He did his ACL

???????? First I heard of this. Has not been reported anywhere.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

With the recruitment of Jamie Elliott via the Marty Clarke trade with GWS, methinks Brad Dick is likely gone. I can't see the team carrying 3 specialist small forwards (Elliott, Ugle and Dick) in the VFL.

 

[Unknown Identity]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...pe-of-afl-return/story-e6frf9jf-1226160680035

What are peoples thoughts on Andrew Lovett..
If clubs bypass him in the draft, we could draft him with a late pick.
Seems he is dedicated to getting back to AFL as per the article above.

Has pace to burn, is currently 28.

The Krakour experiment worked out well and Lovett was a much better footballer than Krakour at his peak.

 

[Scodog10]

The news of Clarke and Elliot coming in has confirmed at least one thing and that's that the club will make at least 5 senior list changes for next year. Witts won't go onto the rookie list because he may be needed as back-up at some stage and you don't want to have to hope for a long term injury in order for him to play.

So there's 3 plus we need to pick up a minimum of 2 at the draft. That leaves at least Buckley, McCarthy, Stubbs, Dick and unfortunately Leroy saying sayonara come the end of next week and maybe one of J Thomas or Sinclair if Buck's wants 3 picks in the draft as them two appear the next most vulnerable.

 

[dubber]

Any interest in Mark Seaby from Sydney?

 

[Knightmare]

With the recruitment of Jamie Elliott via the Marty Clarke trade with GWS, methinks Brad Dick is likely gone. I can't see the team carrying 3 specialist small forwards (Elliott, Ugle and Dick) in the VFL.

Agree. Elliot is a logical replacement for Dick.

The trade (assuming this happens): Would be used firstly to get the player we want (Clarke), but secondly to add a player we like who fills a need (Elliot).
Much the same as the Krakouer+Ceglar deal last year.

Both last year and this year the value isn't necessarily great but it is none the less clever list management because it allows us to fill our needs without having to rely on the draft to deliver us the players we want - which won't always be available at the selection we want.

Would I do the same? Probably not. But none the less it is a good work around because after all it isn't a particularly strong draft and pick 25 is really only a 2nd round pick any other year.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...pe-of-afl-return/story-e6frf9jf-1226160680035

What are peoples thoughts on Andrew Lovett..
If clubs bypass him in the draft, we could draft him with a late pick.
Seems he is dedicated to getting back to AFL as per the article above.

Has pace to burn, is currently 28.

The Krakour experiment worked out well and Lovett was a much better footballer than Krakour at his peak.

Not for me.

GWS can have.

When giving players like this a 2nd chance you really have to carefully do a personality check. Fevola for example might not be a wise choice. Not saying Lovett is necessarily bad, but why Krakouer worked out well is because he is a genuinely good person who just made the one mistake and has learned and grown as a person and has turned his life around.

Also with Lovett while it might sound all well and good in that article and it may sound like on the surface he is working hard. He hasn't played at senior level for two years now and I don't think his fitness is anywhere near the level Krakouer's was in 2010. Krakouer worked VERY hard throughout his time out of the game while Lovett I expect didn't to nearly the same level and I think his conditioning would be well down on what it was. So I very much doubt Lovett will come back and have a massive influence even if a club does give him an opportunity.

The news of Clarke and Elliot coming in has confirmed at least one thing and that's that the club will make at least 5 senior list changes for next year. Witts won't go onto the rookie list because he may be needed as back-up at some stage and you don't want to have to hope for a long term injury in order for him to play.

So there's 3 plus we need to pick up a minimum of 2 at the draft. That leaves at least Buckley, McCarthy, Stubbs, Dick and unfortunately Leroy saying sayonara come the end of next week and maybe one of J Thomas or Sinclair if Buck's wants 3 picks in the draft as them two appear the next most vulnerable.

These are the list changes I would make also.
If Leon goes then we probably keep Buckley.

In adding those two players it might also make possibly Farmer's senior list position a little vulnerable and perhaps he is given the flick and Buckley is retained. But personally would rather retain Farmer since he firstly is still on his rookie contract, has shown improvement and is a type we don't have allot of.

Sinclair/Thomas should be safe over these and be given 3rd seasons at the club.


Trading 1st rounder for Clarke + Elliot might result in:
Add:
Clarke
Elliot
2nd rounder
Witts
Bolton
(Which is still the required 3 through the draft)

Delist/retire:
L.Brown
Dick
Stubbs
McCarthy
Then the final change comes down to whether Leon requests trade/retires or whatever. If retained then we can assume Farmer/Buckley are the likely delisting options.

While I don't think the club will delist Buckley. I certainly would - we have fine depth as is and if we get Clarke back, Buckley is not necessary, because Clarke is quite simply a player with better endurance, kicking skills, decision making and unlike Buckley has best 22 potential.

Any interest in Mark Seaby from Sydney?

He isn't a terrible option. Just probably not one you will win a premiership with. Slight upgrade on Wood, but not nearly going to have the influence of a Jolly.

If looking for a ruckman I would encourage us to look for real quality rather than just take someone for the sake of taking someone, because really we want someone significantly better than Wood. Not just a less bad depth quality ruckman.

Thinking that what we are offering Tooves and Caff financially is with one eye on keeping those who come out of contract in 2013. O'brien, Shaw, Cloke, Pendle, Wellingham, Sidey.

Don't know where all this "trade Toovey" talk is coming from. Have heard it in a couple of other threads also. Has shown great improvement over his career and is a very important role player down back. Under no circumstances would I trade him! Had an AA quality season. Top 10 at the club. Very important. Ever if we elect to play N.Brown with Reid + Tarrant there is room for Tooves because he can play smaller.

At most Blair/Macaffer/Goldsack quality players can be let go of to make sure we can offer Pendlebury the type of money that he is expecting (if we think it will come down to that), but not clear best 15 or 20 players like Toovey.

Toovey's kicking isn't as bad as people make it out to be and while he isn't offensively gifted like a Shaw is, he is an incredibly high level shut down defender who will only get better and is very important to our success from week to week - even if not recognised as such. Don't think Buckley will have issue with his game and if anything would more likely hold him in high regard for his work ethic and willingness to improve from year to year and work on those weaknesses and make them less pronounced as well as building on those strengths.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Don't know where all this "trade Toovey" talk is coming from. Have heard it in a couple of other threads also. Has shown great improvement over his career and is a very important role player down back. Under no circumstances would I trade him! Had an AA quality season. Top 10 at the club. Very important. Ever if we elect to play N.Brown with Reid + Tarrant there is room for Tooves because he can play smaller.

At most Blair/Macaffer/Goldsack quality players can be let go of to make sure we can offer Pendlebury the type of money that he is expecting (if we think it will come down to that), but not clear best 15 or 20 players like Toovey.

Toovey's kicking isn't as bad as people make it out to be and while he isn't offensively gifted like a Shaw is, he is an incredibly high level shut down defender who will only get better and is very important to our success from week to week - even if not recognised as such. Don't think Buckley will have issue with his game and if anything would more likely hold him in high regard for his work ethic and willingness to improve from year to year and work on those weaknesses and make them less pronounced as well as building on those strengths.

I think that has all stemmed from his manager complaining about his contract whihc has not been renewed yet and not enough dollars. If he can't get the dollars then he may walk. So if he is going to walk then we have to consider a trade.

Personally see him as a must keep, but they have been manouvering around the salary cap very delicately and depending on what he wants maybe we just cant afford it.

 

[TradeDraft]

Agree. Elliot is a logical replacement for Dick.

The trade (assuming this happens): Would be used firstly to get the player we want (Clarke), but secondly to add a player we like who fills a need (Elliot).
Much the same as the Krakouer+Ceglar deal last year.

Both last year and this year the value isn't necessarily great but it is none the less clever list management because it allows us to fill our needs without having to rely on the draft to deliver us the players we want - which won't always be available at the selection we want.

Would I do the same? Probably not. But none the less it is a good work around because after all it isn't a particularly strong draft and pick 25 is really only a 2nd round pick any other year.

Plus Witts is Rated very highly.

I would be Very Very Very suprised if this trade does NOT happend

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...n-the-afl-with-a-new-side-20101004-164bx.html

That Link show the Age got the Krakouer and Ceglar Trade Correct

 

[Cawosawwow]

Without any O'Meara type deals I'd do this below:

Seniors

O'Brien Brown Shaw
Maxwell Reid Clarke

Jolly Swan Pendlebury
Didak Ball Wellingham

Macaffer Cloke Thomas
Krakouer Dawes Sidebottom

Davis Johnson Tarrant Toovey

Reserves

Goldsack Gordon* Young
Seedsman Keeffe Farmer*

Wood Thomas Sinclair
Ugle Rounds Blair

Beams Reilly* Fasolo
Witts Ceglar Elliot

Bolton* Stubbs* Hartley* Cribbin*


On: Witts Clarke Elliot National National National

OFF: L Brown Dick Buckley McCarthy Farmer Stubbs

* = Rookie

 

[Knightmare]

I think that has all stemmed from his manager complaining about his contract whihc has not been renewed yet and not enough dollars. If he can't get the dollars then he may walk. So if he is going to walk then we have to consider a trade.

Personally see him as a must keep, but they have been manouvering around the salary cap very delicately and depending on what he wants maybe we just cant afford it.

Saw an article on superfooty about it.

Not at all pleased. We just need to work out a way to retain Toovey, even if it means delisting/ trading others on to make room.

Interestingly Dawes + Toovey would probably be enough to get O'Meara - and a trade of both would without a doubt clear out any necessary salary cap space to re-sign Pendles next year.
But the short term cost of losing this pair would be massive and cost us probably any premierships over the next 2-3 years because neither player can be easily replaced.
Would be a very brave move! But you almost have to consider it if the salary cap situation is really this bad.

Without any O'Meara type deals I'd do this below:


On: Witts Clarke Elliot National National National

OFF: L Brown Dick Buckley McCarthy Farmer Stubbs

* = Rookie

Don't think we will select so many through the draft this year. We'll probably only have 1-2 live picks (with probably Witts and possibly Bolton as the other to make the required 3) - reason being it's a moderately weak draft and as a club from reports don't rate it.

But otherwise not a bad attempt and likely reasonably close.

 

[soreplums]

I figure with next year being a deep draft, we will be delisting quite a few 2nd and third year players for extra picks- not to mention forced retirements.
May even force Johnno or Leon out this year to hold onto Toovey?

 

[Knightmare]

I figure with next year being a deep draft, we will be delisting quite a few 2nd and third year players for extra picks- not to mention forced retirements.
May even force Johnno or Leon out this year to hold onto Toovey?

The timing to delist + trade players really isn't ideal.

As you mentioned next year is the year all clubs will want to move players on and look to really reload to talent via the draft. Not this year. But Pendlebury's 1 year contract really makes this tricky.


Johnson I think will retire next year. Davis either this year or next.

Don't think we will force either into retirement this year. Both have been best 22 and probably the better work around is clearing out depth type players - McCarthy and Buckley. Then Goldsack, Macaffer and Blair if absolutely necessary would be the way you have to go - more value in them to other clubs than a 30 year old Davis or Johnson.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

What about Tom Lynch from the Aints?

He had a great first year & I think start of 2nd? So much so I could not understand the Aints not playing him.

I know he's tailed off in the last 18 months or so but he was very exciting early on. You know when he came from the TAC cup he was good, it took 18 months for the Aints to drag him down.
Perhaps we could drag him back up.

Would be cheap & can play 3 rd tall.
(Yes i know he's been linked to the Crows I think.)