Opinion Top 20 of all time

[osaka mick]

Hey guys, if it really the 'best players of all time' you might need to do some historical research.

The first responder had 3 players who played in the first 43 years of the league (ie before WW2) and 17 who played in the 66 years after. The second responder had 2-18.

It takea a bit of research to look up the records of the great players from pre-ww2 - but just because they don't have a youtube compilation doesn't mean they weren't champions.

Just for starters, look up Albert Thurgood, George Todd, Dick Lee, Vic Thorp, Harry Vallance, Jack Titus, Allan La Fontaine..... All have reputations as good or better than some of the names posted here.

I don't blame you - after the disgrace of the AFL/VFL Team of The Century that included exactly 2 pre-ww2 players, I guess our opinions are controlled by the media reps who played in the 60s-70s.

Yet, we are only going to be going by hearsay, and reading articles...

Id prefer to nominate the players I have seen play, or at least seen some footage of. I wouldnt be nominating players from pre wwII, for that reason.

 

[Vitruvian]

The only way that I personally can perform this difficult task with any integrity and conscience whatsoever is to produce two separate lists.

The first is a list of the ten (ranked) greatest players that I've personally seen play live. The second is a list of the ten (not ranked) greatest players that I've not seen live. I have either seen video footage of, or read about these players from reasonably reliable authorities. However, I must stress that both lists are my opinion only. I concede that I clearly have a bias for modern day players, and I found it difficult to judge pre-World War II players.

I also considered all Australian Rules Football Players (not just AFL/VFL Players) for both lists.


So, here goes.....


The Ten Greatest Australian Rules Football Players I Have SEEN LIVE (Approximately 1978-2011, RANKED):

1. Gary Ablett, Sr.
2. Michael Voss
3. James Hird
4. Leigh Matthews
5. Wayne Carey
6. Tony Lockett
7. Bruce Doull
8. Simon Black
9. Gary Ayres
10. Matthew Scarlett


The Ten Greatest Australian Rules Football Players I Have NOT SEEN LIVE (NOT RANKED):

- Ted Whitten, Sr.
- Graham Farmer
- John Nicholls
- Stephen Michael
- Barrie Robran
- John Coleman
- Haydn Bunton, Sr.
- Bob Skilton
- Royce Hart
- Barry Cable

 

[mufassa]

I have Voss ahead of Hird, Buckley, Harvey, Ricciuto, etc.

He was an out-and-out champion and a freak of a player. Yes, he won premierships in a team of champions... But he wasn't always surrounded by the champions that he had during the three-peat era. He also dragged the club through the hard years of the mid-late 90s as well.

Again, it's an opinion list... and in my opinion he is one of the best players I've seen. Yes, even ahead of the above champions I mentioned.

Agree - Voss was a warrier and an all time great.

 

[finders]

The 20 Greatest Australian Rules Football Players I Have SEEN LIVE


Leigh Matthews
Wayne Carey
Bob Skilton
Royce Hart
Ron Barassi
Ian Stewart
Gary Ablett, Sr.
Michael Voss
John Coleman
James Hird
Tony Lockett
Graham Farmer
John Nicholls
Bruce Doull
Simon Black
Darrel Baldock
Barry Cable
Trevor Barker
Kevin Murray
Greg Williams

 

[the distributer]

The 20 Greatest Australian Rules Football Players I Have SEEN LIVE


Leigh Matthews
Wayne Carey
Bob Skilton
Royce Hart
Ron Barassi
Ian Stewart
Gary Ablett, Sr.
Michael Voss
John Coleman
James Hird
Tony Lockett
Graham Farmer
John Nicholls
Bruce Doull
Simon Black
Darrel Baldock
Barry Cable
Trevor Barker
Kevin Murray
Greg Williams

I'm not as seasoned as you, but my 'live' list is.

Daicos, possibly the most underated player ever, look up the guys season by season stats, simply incredible, injury robbed him of being the best player of all time IMO, considering his best position was in the centre, the guy kicked around 60 goals from the centre in a season more than once, as a kid basiclly, was simply the best kick of the football we've ever seen, left/right foot/snaps/runners/torps, never seen anyone even close with his level of footskills, he was in a world of his own.

I remember one game against the Cats around 91, ablett was on fire, kicked 7, no need to worry though for us pie fans, daics stepped up and kicked 8, at his best he was simply unstoppable, injurys robbed us of seeing him in his prime though.

Voss, round 8 2001, the Pies beat the lions by less than a kick, Voss was knocked out in the first qtr (friendly fire, a J Brown elbow), couldn't believe he could come back on let alone be one of the BOG, the bloke was an animal.

Carey, no need to explain that one.

 

[harmesy 37]

The ten best players of all-time (any club) are:-


1) Wayne Harmes
2) Wayne Harmes
3) Alex Jesaulenko
4) Wayne Johnston
5) Wayne Harmes
6) John Nicholls
7) Bruce Doull
8) Anthony Koutoufides
9) Greg Williams
10) Chris Judd
11) Stephen Kernahan
12) Ken Hunter
13) Tony Lockett, Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Jason Akermanis, blah, blah, blah...

 

[The Spaniel]

Harmesy!

 

[September 27 2008]

The ten best players of all-time (any club) are:-


1) Wayne Harmes
2) Wayne Harmes
3) Alex Jesaulenko
4) Wayne Johnston
5) Wayne Harmes
6) John Nicholls
7) Bruce Doull
8) Anthony Koutoufides
9) Greg Williams
10) Chris Judd
11) Stephen Kernahan
12) Ken Hunter
13) Tony Lockett, Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey, Jason Akermanis, blah, blah, blah...

List needs more Tom Alvin and Earl Spalding

 

[SSrixon]

Weird that Coleman doesn't feature highly in some of these lists. Every old mate I've ever spoken to says he's the best they've seen by a mile. Even better than Carey, Ablett Snr and Matthews.

 

[Pie in the Sky]

Weird that Coleman doesn't feature highly in some of these lists. Every old mate I've ever spoken to says he's the best they've seen by a mile. Even better than Carey, Ablett Snr and Matthews.

Probably only because his career was cut so short, only 98 games. It's a shame he didn't get the chance to play 200+ games.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

I'm not as seasoned as you, but my 'live' list is.

Daicos, possibly the most underated player ever, look up the guys season by season stats, simply incredible, injury robbed him of being the best player of all time IMO, considering his best position was in the centre, the guy kicked around 60 goals from the centre in a season more than once, as a kid basiclly, was simply the best kick of the football we've ever seen, left/right foot/snaps/runners/torps, never seen anyone even close with his level of footskills, he was in a world of his own.

I remember one game against the Cats around 91, ablett was on fire, kicked 7, no need to worry though for us pie fans, daics stepped up and kicked 8, at his best he was simply unstoppable, injurys robbed us of seeing him in his prime though.

Voss, round 8 2001, the Pies beat the lions by less than a kick, Voss was knocked out in the first qtr (friendly fire, a J Brown elbow), couldn't believe he could come back on let alone be one of the BOG, the bloke was an animal.

Carey, no need to explain that one.

As much as I dislike Mr Distributor
I am actually agreeing with him for the 1st time and likely the last time

Daicos was one of the best players I ever saw play...he didn't dominate a game for 4 quarters but he'd do what was needed to win a game of his own boot and he did it consistently.
I think it's fair to judge a players overall greatness by the way they also performed in finals footy and Daicos seemed to also step up in finals matches whilst keeping up his averages.

Injury did ruin his career, but he was quite possibly the games most freakish talent & likely would have dominated in European soccer the way he could dance around opponents and make the ball talk.

 

[sydney eagle]

A lot of this is based on record and reputation. I've tried to take other state competitions into consideration as well. Anyway, here is my list:

1 - Wayne Carey
2 - Leigh Matthews
3 - Gary Ablett Snr.
4 - Haydn Bunton Snr.
5 - Tony Lockett
6 - Peter Hudson
7 - Ted Whitten
8 - Graham Farmer (WAFL/VFL)
9 - John Coleman
10- Ian Stewart
11- Barrie Robran (SANFL)
12- Dick Reynolds
13- Bob Skilton
14- Ken Farmer (SANFL)
15- Gordon Coventry
16- Gary Ablett Jnr.
17- Ron Barassi
18- Michael Voss
19- Russell Ebert (SANFL)
20- Stephen Michael (WAFL)

Out of the 20, I've only seen 5 play in my lifetime... so a lot of this order is opinion from what I've read and seen in documentaries.

My top-4 are non negotiables... simply the best 4 players ever.

Lockett at 5 because he would dominate ANY era. People look at 1360 goals and acclaim him for that, but he missed a fair chunk of his peak years (1988-1993) with injury and suspension. He could/should have kicked 1600+ goals.

Hudson at 6 because of his record. Again, he should have kicked 1100+ goals had it not been for injury and Tasmania footy.

Whitten at 7 because he is Mr. Football. His record isn't amazing when you look at it... but his reputation is second to none. Must mean something.

Farmer at 8 because he revolutionized the sport with his play. Freak talent.

Coleman at 9 only because he got injured. Old timers go into a trance when they say how good he was. Could have been the best ever, but we will never know.

Stewart at 10 because his record is amazing and footage I've seen shows a bloke who was so much better than the rest of the competition.

Robran at 11 on reputation like Whitten. I know very little about him, but his reputation as the best player in SANFL history is enough.

Reynolds at 12. Record is amazing... but Bunton was better in the 1930s. I could have him on par with Stewart and Robran. Not much separating them.

Skilton at 13. Again... three Brownlows, but probably the weaker of the three in my opinion. Still a legend and champion though. Just not on a Bunton/Stewart/Reynolds level.

Farmer at 14. This blokes record is amazing. 1419 goals in 224 games in the SANFL. Average 6.33 goals per game. Only thing stopping him being higher is the standard of competition. How can I compare VFL and SANFL?

Coventry at 15. Farmer is better in my opinion... but second most AFL goals kicked means he has to be included.

Ablett Jnr at 16. Best current footballer, and just a freak to watch. 3 AFL MVPs is a massive reason too. Will probably finish career in the top 10 players ever.

Barassi at 17 because of record again. Premierships, reputation, etc.

Voss at 18. Just a great record, leadership, skill, toughness. Triple premiership.

Ebert and Michael rounding it off at 19 & 20. Just on reputation and record. Very hard to judge due to little or no VFL experience... but both are definitely worthy of inclusion.

I like your list But Hayden Bunton Snr should have WAFL/VFL against his name 190 games in the WAFL and three Sandover medals. He also played in the SANFL.

 

[pazza]

Starting from Number 20 and counting from there:

20. Simon Madden
19. Kevin Bartlett
18. Barrie Robran
17. Michael Tuck
16. Bill Hutchison
15. Barry Cable
14. Ian Stewart
13. Bob Skilton
12. Gary Ablett Senior
11. Dick Reynolds
10. Malcolm Blight
9. Haydn Bunton Senior
8. Kevin Murray
7. Graham Farmer
6. John Coleman
5. Tony Lockett
4. Leigh Matthews
3. Ted Whitten Senior
2. Ron Barassi
1. John Nicholls

 

[mufassa]

Starting from Number 20 and counting from there:

20. Simon Madden
19. Kevin Bartlett
18. Barrie Robran
17. Michael Tuck
16. Bill Hutchison
15. Barry Cable
14. Ian Stewart
13. Bob Skilton
12. Gary Ablett Senior
11. Dick Reynolds
10. Malcolm Blight
9. Haydn Bunton Senior
8. Kevin Murray
7. Graham Farmer
6. John Coleman
5. Tony Lockett
4. Leigh Matthews
3. Ted Whitten Senior
2. Ron Barassi
1. John Nicholls

Carey is a long way in front a lot of these players.

 

[mufassa]

Probably only because his career was cut so short, only 98 games. It's a shame he didn't get the chance to play 200+ games.

Cut short because he quit football due to personal reasons. He could have played more games.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I don't think you can go past Leigh Matthews at No.1

Was a gun clearance player and kicked enough goals for an elite forward. Would often dominate the midfield then go forward and win the match by booting a few quick goals. No other player in the history of the game has come close to this level of performance.

 

[pazza]

Cut short because he quit football due to personal reasons. He could have played more games.

Wrong.

He had a dislocated knee which at the time ended his career as soon as it happened. He had no choice.

 

[mufassa]

Wrong.

He had a dislocated knee which at the time ended his career as soon as it happened. He had no choice.

Correct

"There were revelations in early 1958 that Coleman's knee was sufficiently repaired to play on and his true reasons for not playing were unrelated to his knee"

 

[mufassa]

I don't think you can go past Leigh Matthews at No.1

Was a gun clearance player and kicked enough goals for an elite forward. Would often dominate the midfield then go forward and win the match by booting a few quick goals. No other player in the history of the game has come close to this level of performance.

Yeah hard to argue against Matthews and most people would have him in the top couple. I did not see a lot of Matthews but his stats are amazing - I did however see a lot of Carey and he was massive in the 90's and should also be around the top of most lists. At least those who understand a bit about the game.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Correct

"There were revelations in early 1958 that Coleman's knee was sufficiently repaired to play on and his true reasons for not playing were unrelated to his knee"

I heard he retired because he was a perfectionist and he would never come back as good as he was

Hudson showed what coming back after a knee reco would mean in those days, albeit it was a bit after coleman, but a knee reco in those years was a bigger deal than it is today.

 

[mufassa]

I heard he retired because he was a perfectionist and he would never come back as good as he was

Hudson showed what coming back after a knee reco would mean in those days, albeit it was a bit after coleman, but a knee reco in those years was a bigger deal than it is today.

No knee reco like Hudson. Coleman dislocated his knee.

 

[pazza]

Correct

"There were revelations in early 1958 that Coleman's knee was sufficiently repaired to play on and his true reasons for not playing were unrelated to his knee"

Got a source for that quote?

Because as revealed in the "the Illustrated History Of The Essendon Football Club" a video which is indeed based on both Flying High and Flying Higher, the 2 History Of Essendon books, there was no mention of this.

It's okay - I found it from Wikipedia from what appears to be an unofficial text. Rather the official (and indeed factual) version of the truth!

 

[mufassa]

Got a source for that quote?

Because as revealed in the "the Illustrated History Of The Essendon Football Club" a video which is indeed based on both Flying High and Flying Higher, the 2 History Of Essendon books, there was no mention of this.

It's okay - I found it from Wikipedia from what appears to be an unofficial text. Rather the official (and indeed factual) version of the truth!

Wow - you think a book written for Essendon supporters would discuss their club legend quitting due to the back men at the time playing too rough with him?? Zero chance and the "factual" Essendon version would be very very bias.

Especially if it was based on Flying High....

 

[mufassa]

Got a source for that quote?

Because as revealed in the "the Illustrated History Of The Essendon Football Club" a video which is indeed based on both Flying High and Flying Higher, the 2 History Of Essendon books, there was no mention of this.

It's okay - I found it from Wikipedia from what appears to be an unofficial text. Rather the official (and indeed factual) version of the truth!

Also find me another player that quit football after dislocating the knee.

 

[pazza]

Also find me another player that quit football after dislocating the knee.

Back then there would have been a few..simply because knee surgery wasn't as advanced as today.

Plenty of blokes quit footy due to knee issues - Royce Hart for one. He gave up playing in 1977 because his knee, which had been a problem for much of the 1970's, simply wouldn't work for him.