Chris Judd - The Crime and the Punishment - 4 Weeks

[jonbe54]

I thought Hunt was the most dog act but not as serious as Betts was uninjured.

Longergans tackle was fine and part of the game, unfortunate he got injured.

Judd was very dumb in what he did but I don't believe he had intent to injure or hurt Adams much like Lonergan.

I think Wellingham was reckless in the way he went about, not his intent to injure Simpson once again but copped his whack. Probably lucky not to get an extra week.

I just find it hard to believe that any player goes out of there way to cause serious injury to another player. Split second decisions can lead to it but I don't think players think of ways to injure an opponent.

There is nothing of a split second decision in Judds actions, the kid was already on the ground with a player on top of him and the ball under him. IT WASN'T ANY SORT OF A TACKLE, it was a deliberate attempt to injure, there is no other possible explanation.

 

[Dude Lebowski]

Pretty stupid by Juddy, but bit a bit of perspective please.

Only an example, but what Wellingham did last week and what many others have done in the past have the potential to kill the person on the other end, maybe an exaggeration, but highly possible. What Judd did was never going to kill anyone. If indeed there was a dislocation, what is worse, a dislocated shoulder or a smashed face? Someone travelling like a freight train and smashing you in the face would most likely be a little more uncomfortabable than someone twisting your arm. IMO if Wellingham got 5 then Juddy will get maybe 3 or 2 down to 1 with the early plea. His previous record may come into it though, so 2 will be a good outcome. But there has been no precedent really in this case, but to say it was worse than Wellingham's, get a grip.

I'm not defending what Judd did for a second, but the reason why the commentators and/or media didn't jump on it straight away as they tend to be a little more balanced and not meant to show any bias. At the moment, it's pretty much Judd haters that are calling for larger penalties.

 

[Pklz]

There is nothing of a split second decision in Judds actions, the kid was already on the ground with a player on top of him and the ball under him. IT WASN'T ANY SORT OF A TACKLE, it was a deliberate attempt to injure, there is no other possible explanation.

Actually you see Judd trying to grab Adams arm before he is fully tackled to the ground, this tells me his intent was to restrict Adams from using his arm/hand to free the ball, not his intent to injure or cause pain.

 

[jonbe54]

The twisting is a load of crap and won't hurt the player at all. I didn't see any twisting either.

The problem Judd faces is he managed to produce a near-perfect "anterior apprehension test;" shoulder abducted to 90* and externally rotated. Effectively it brings the humorous to near dislocation in persons with previous trauma and makes them absolutely shit themselves in discomfort and fear. Not to mention the fact it can lead to dislocations itself. He probably had no idea that he was doing it and was just wanting to pull on the arm, but it looks really bad.

Unsubstantiated reports say that Carlton have a Jiu Jitsu instructor who has instructed them in 'pressure point' techniques - if this is so it just makes things worse.

 

[jonbe54]

Actually you see Judd trying to grab Adams arm before he is fully tackled to the ground, this tells me his intent was to restrict Adams from using his arm/hand to free the ball, not his intent to injure or cause pain.

You are obviously an apologist - forget it sunshine, troll your bullshit to the sheep who will swallow it.

 

[Sttew]

The twisting is a load of crap and won't hurt the player at all. I didn't see any twisting either.

The problem Judd faces is he managed to produce a near-perfect "anterior apprehension test;" shoulder abducted to 90* and externally rotated. Effectively it brings the humorous to near dislocation in persons with previous trauma and makes them absolutely shit themselves in discomfort and fear. Not to mention the fact it can lead to dislocations itself. He probably had no idea that he was doing it and was just wanting to pull on the arm, but it looks really bad.

The fact that Judd has had shoulder reconstruction surgery - wouldn't he have undergone the test you refer to? And if so, he may have known exactly what he was doing. Regardless, he bloody well knew Adams' was writhing in pain on the ground, because Judd doesn't let go until pulled the North players remonstrated.

 

[Bosun]

Actually you see Judd trying to grab Adams arm before he is fully tackled to the ground, this tells me his intent was to restrict Adams from using his arm/hand to free the ball, not his intent to injure or cause pain.

 

[jonbe54]

Pretty stupid by Juddy, but bit a bit of perspective please.

Only an example, but what Wellingham did last week and what many others have done in the past have the potential to kill the person on the other end, maybe an exaggeration, but highly possible. What Judd did was never going to kill anyone. If indeed there was a dislocation, what is worse, a dislocated shoulder or a smashed face? Someone travelling like a freight train and smashing you in the face would most likely be a little more uncomfortabable than someone twisting your arm. IMO if Wellingham got 5 then Juddy will get maybe 3 or 2 down to 1 with the early plea. His previous record may come into it though, so 2 will be a good outcome. But there has been no precedent really in this case, but to say it was worse than Wellingham's, get a grip.

I'm not defending what Judd did for a second, but the reason why the commentators and/or media didn't jump on it straight away as they tend to be a little more balanced and not meant to show any bias. At the moment, it's pretty much Judd haters that are calling for larger penalties.

Lol what a pathetic attempt at a deflection.

There is a vast difference between a split second decision and a premeditated act designed to injure.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Oh please, Judd knew exactly what he was doing.

You simply cannot spin that, other than plea mental illness.

 

[woopedazz]

The fact that Judd has had shoulder reconstruction surgery - wouldn't he have undergone the test you refer to? And if so, he may have known exactly what he was doing. Regardless, he bloody well knew Adams' was writhing in pain on the ground, because Judd doesn't let go until pulled the North players remonstrated.

Probably at some point in his recovery to test how it was holding up; it's more of a structural integrity test.

 

[Bosun]

I love Judd but this is incredibly hard to defend, there might be a reasons for the act but there aren't excuses. Its been referred straight to the tribunal so I assume he is looking at 4-5, personally I'm not sure what he should get.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Actually you see Judd trying to grab Adams arm before he is fully tackled to the ground, this tells me his intent was to restrict Adams from using his arm/hand to free the ball, not his intent to injure or cause pain.

Complete B.S. Watch the replay again, you can see Judd PULLING out the shoulder.

He was on the ground on his stomach ffs, he had a player on his back. All Judd needed to do was get down and hold his arm on the GROUND, not PULL the shoulder out. Only reason he stopped, despite Adams shaking his leg in discomfort, was when Swallow pushed him over. God knows what would have resulted if that didn't happen.

Judd is a snake for what he did and deserves weeks to set a precedent for shit like this. It's simply not acceptable in any football capacity.

 

[Pklz]

You are obviously an apologist - forget it sunshine, troll your bullshit to the sheep who will swallow it.

Yeah whatever mate. All I've been trying to say is that I think it's a stretch to say his intent was to injure Adams. You can quote me on saying that Judd is dumb for doing it and we see a lot of incidents these days where players get suspended only due to a player being injured so Judd definitely has a case to answer for and probably should get punished.

But it shouldn't be ruled as intent to injure which most flogs on here are gunning for.

 

[Dude Lebowski]

Lol what a pathetic attempt at a deflection.

There is a vast difference between a split second decision and a premeditated act designed to injure.

Deflection of what? Why would I try and deflect it against anyone here on BF. Kinda silly you reckon? Anyway, how do you know if it was premeditated. Not like he was running around for 10mins thinking he was going to twist someone's arm. He probably thought about it for a split second and did it. Much like Wellingham did. So what is worse? You do the experiment and come back and tell us about it.

 

[jonbe54]

Yeah whatever mate. All I've been trying to say is that I think it's a stretch to say his intent was to injure Adams. You can quote me on saying that Judd is dumb for doing it and we see a lot of incidents these days where players get suspended only due to a player being injured so Judd definitely has a case to answer for and probably should get punished.

But it shouldn't be ruled as intent to injure which most flogs on here are gunning for.

And you are either so far up his arse with Judd worship of such an apologist that you will not see the plain facts before your face. Put your head back in the sand, then you can say you didn't see it at all.

 

[Blue and Silver]

That's right. If you can't blame the victim blame the people seeking to assist the victim.

Why did Judd need two hands to stop a prostrate player with the ball trapped under him and a player on top of him from handballing?

One hand at the rear of the elbow another locked around the wrist. He knew what he was doing.

He should just admit he had an attack of rage and frustration. He's clearly done it before.

Regards

S. Pete

Dude we aren't arguing.

Judd did the wrong thing. He'll get heavily punished for it.

What you say he did was, in a bout of superhuman strength, wrench Adam's arm out of its socket. I'm saying he tried to inflict pain (ugly thing to do) and when pushed inadvertently dislocated the arm.

Its bad, I don't like it and he should be penalised for it.

And btw the hold you describe is good for wrenching the elbow joint not the shoulder. To dislocate his shoulder on his own Judd would of had to push the outstretched arm back over Adams body.

 

[Sttew]

Its a bit of the tall poppy sysndrome too. Until Friday night my only "gripe" about Judd was the way he overused the facial grimace each game. He really can't help that, and it is a trivial thing to focus on.

But now, Juddy has given us on a silver platter reason to question his integrity and character. I agree, this is going to be difficult to defend, and if CFC try to argue all he was doing was stopping Adams from handballing, the MRP / AFL better shoot that line down.

 

[jonbe54]

Deflection of what? Why would I try and deflect it against anyone here on BF. Kinda silly you reckon? Anyway, how do you know if it was premeditated. Not like he was running around for 10mins thinking he was going to twist someone's arm. He probably thought about it for a split second and did it. Much like Wellingham did. So what is worse? You do the experiment and come back and tell us about it.

Lol bullshit sunshine Wellingham got what he deserved for a reckless act but there was no need for Judd to pull the lads arm up in the first place, simply pin it, wasn't going anywhere. The only possible explanation for his actions is to do exactly what he did.

 

[Pklz]

And you are either so far up his arse with Judd worship of such an apologist that you will not see the plain facts before your face. Put your head back in the sand, then you can say you didn't see it at all.

Sorry I wasn't aware that you had the ability to read Judd's mind at the time. Carry on.

 

[Chief]

Probably not a 'twist'. More of a 'intentional dislocation', if you ask me.

I don't think you can argue that from the video at all. I reckon there was intent to cause pain, but the end result was way more than intended.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Yeah whatever mate. All I've been trying to say is that I think it's a stretch to say his intent was to injure Adams. You can quote me on saying that Judd is dumb for doing it and we see a lot of incidents these days where players get suspended only due to a player being injured so Judd definitely has a case to answer for and probably should get punished.

But it shouldn't be ruled as intent to injure which most flogs on here are gunning for.

How the hell would you know what his intent was?

The burden is on you to prove that it wasn't his intent, for which you have no evidence for. On the flip-side, we have video evidence of him committing a physical act which shows nothing but an action of injuring a player for no other possible reason at all.

Even Judd could lie about what his intent was at the time, but the video replay proves otherwise. He dug his own hole with his own actions.

I'm sorry, but so far - physical act on video leading to common sense > your assumption of thought with no evidence whatsoever.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Sorry I wasn't aware that you had the ability to read Judd's mind at the time. Carry on.

Fan-boy alert.

 

[jonbe54]

Fan-boy alert.

Definitely

 

[DerpWerls]

What happened to thread title? I thought no dislocation actually occurred?

 

[Dude Lebowski]

Lol bullshit sunshine Wellingham got what he deserved for a reckless act but there was no need for Judd to pull the lads arm up in the first place, simply pin it, wasn't going anywhere. The only possible explanation for his actions is to do exactly what he did.

Again, I'm not defending Judd at all. I'm defending the fact of what is worse and what sort of sentence he should get. Some of the rot on here is completely outrageous.