Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

[aussierulesrules]

I think the other pick was assuming that Tippett would nominate for the national draft and get picked up before our pick there. Nominations have to be in tomorrow I think, so he won't necessarily be nominating, considering his hearing is next week. Sydney or GWS will get a massive free kick if they get him in the PSD (possibly the reason the AFL have dragged this out for so long).

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I think the other pick was assuming that Tippett would nominate for the national draft and get picked up before our pick there. Nominations have to be in tomorrow I think, so he won't necessarily be nominating, considering his hearing is next week. Sydney or GWS will get a massive free kick if they get him in the PSD (possibly the reason the AFL have dragged this out for so long).

He'll be a GWS player, There is no chance he'll be at Sydney. Sheedy will make sure they get him and i hope they do Karma. Would be funny as leaves a Premiership contending team to go to the swans Next Minute at GWS.

 

[Defacto]

I think the other pick was assuming that Tippett would nominate for the national draft and get picked up before our pick there. Nominations have to be in tomorrow I think, so he won't necessarily be nominating, considering his hearing is next week. Sydney or GWS will get a massive free kick if they get him in the PSD (possibly the reason the AFL have dragged this out for so long).

you are correct. tippett will be picked up by GWS, he will be suspended for some games but the AFL will make sure he ends up at GWS

 

[Strahany]

Nominating for any draft would be risky for Tippett, but his best bet would no doubt be in the National Draft. He can threaten GWS and every other club all he likes, but they have the ability to take him before Sydney get a chance. If he enters the PSD, there's absolutely no way that GWS (or any other club, for that matter) wouldn't be willing to risk one of those measly picks on taking him. The National Draft is a different story, as any club looking to snag him would be risking a first round draft pick on someone who would be expensive and may not even play a game if he has a massive sook. That would scare most clubs away.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The AFL would be ill-advised to do that. The backlash they would recieve for that would be significant. All non-Melbourne supporters would be in uproar and the journos would go to town on them. The only thing worse then tanking is knowing that clubs have tanked and doing shit all about it. Very bad move by the AFL. Shows their willingness to turn a blind-eye. I would be especially pissed if I was an Adelaide supporter.


Anyway, that was a little off-topic

Given the time its taking to investigate , I can't believe there is a clear cut legal case, and there would need to be.

 

[hayes]

If that's the case then they'd probably just say "not enough evidence".

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I still think the Melbourne one is a can of worms.
If I was the AFL I'd issue a statement along the lines of:
" At this point we think it is entirely possible that Melbourne did in fact tank for draft picks, however it will be difficult and costly to prove. Given the current state of Melbourne football club, we consider that most observers would consider it ill advised to persue such a course, particularly since priority picks will no longer be awarded . While the AFL will be more diligent in detecting and punishing such action in the future, we consider it less likely to occur in the current environment. In this case we will take no further action "

Or the AFL could and should issue the following statement:

"The AFL has determined that both through evidence collected from witness statements and the balance of probabilities, that the Melbourne Football Club conspired to alter the outcome of matches, to influence the outcome of end of year draft picks.

The integrity of the draft and wider AFL community is dependent on all clubs being compliant with AFL rules on this.

The Melbourne Football Club has accepted that these actions were against the letter and spirit, of the relevant AFL laws on this matter.

Accordingly the AFL has determined that the Melbourne Football Club will lose all draft picks in the 2012 and 2013 AFL Pre Season Draft.

Furthermore the Melbourne Football Club is to receive a fine of $300,000."


That statement would be fairer and more appropriate for draft cheats.

 

[VDS66]

The AFL would want to be 100% certain with their findings. It really is a grey matter from a legal perspective.

 

[sammm]

There is no way i can see Riewoldt or Dal going anywhere. Riewoldt is already in contract talks and i'm sure Nicky Dal is aswell.

why do you think Nicky Dal is? isn't that what was said about Goddard?

 

[Persevering Saint]

Nah, we always had a feeling that Goddard was going to go. Dal is as safe as houses.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Or the AFL could and should issue the following statement:

"The AFL has determined that both through evidence collected from witness statements and the balance of probabilities, that the Melbourne Football Club conspired to alter the outcome of matches, to influence the outcome of end of year draft picks.

The integrity of the draft and wider AFL community is dependent on all clubs being compliant with AFL rules on this.

The Melbourne Football Club has accepted that these actions were against the letter and spirit, of the relevant AFL laws on this matter.

Accordingly the AFL has determined that the Melbourne Football Club will lose all draft picks in the 2012 and 2013 AFL Pre Season Draft.

Furthermore the Melbourne Football Club is to receive a fine of $300,000."


That statement would be fairer and more appropriate for draft cheats.

But.... Melbourne are already in a shitful position, and robbing them of draft picks for the next two years will probably put them in a position where the AFL need to take action ( ie give them a priority pick ) the year after which would be embarrasing to say the least. Pretty sure the AFL dont want to kill them for the next decade given that they have already been crap for around 5 years.

Thats why I think it best that they make a statement ,and say that there is insufficent evidence to prove it without a doubt.

Personally I dont think it will happen again, since the AFL now issue priority picks on a disgressionary basis, and because Melbourne and Carlton are the posterchildren of teams who tank, while teams who dont tank overly, such as Geelong, Collingwood( well maybe a little ) and Sydney have been very successful.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

why do you think Nicky Dal is? isn't that what was said about Goddard?

I wouldn't class Nicky Dal on the same line as Goddard. Dal way more loyal.

 

[Persevering Saint]

But.... Melbourne are already in a shitful position, and robbing them of draft picks for the next two years will probably put them in a position where the AFL need to take action ( ie give them a priority pick ) the year after which would be embarrasing to say the least. Pretty sure the AFL dont want to kill them for the next decade given that they have already been crap for around 5 years.

Thats why I think it best that they make a statement ,and say that there is insufficent evidence to prove it without a doubt.

Personally I dont think it will happen again, since the AFL now issue priority picks on a disgressionary basis, and because Melbourne and Carlton are the posterchildren of teams who tank, while teams who dont tank overly, such as Geelong, Collingwood( well maybe a little ) and Sydney have been very successful.

What the AFL needs to do is exile Melbourne to Tasmania. Plain and simple. End all this Tassie-not-having-a-team crap, and get rid of a dead-weight in the AFL. They did it to Fitzroy and it was the best thing that could have happened. Melbourne is beyond saving.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What the AFL needs to do is exile Melbourne to Tasmania. Plain and simple. End all this Tassie-not-having-a-team crap, and get rid of a dead-weight in the AFL. They did it to Fitzroy and it was the best thing that could have happened. Melbourne is beyond saving.

At least they wouldn't need to go to Cranbourne any more.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Cranbourne would be grateful.

 

[mysainters]

I wouldn't class Nicky Dal on the same line as Goddard. Dal way more loyal.

Do we still think it's more about loyalty?

I still think it came down to opportunity.

I mean, he expects to be playing 95% as an inside mid at the Dons...we couldn't get him in there until Rd 19.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Do we still think it's more about loyalty?

I still think it came down to opportunity.

I mean, he expects to be playing 95% as an inside mid at the Dons...we couldn't get him in there until Rd 19.

Personally i don't think BJ's position is Midfield i think HB is his best position.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I notice on the AFL website, in the article on Plowman and Corr (who have been playing in the same team) that they reckon both will go in the top 15, if not higher! Don't see that happening, but we are apparently keen on him and may get him in the 20's if available.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Personally i don't think BJ's position is Midfield i think HB is his best position.

You didn't like his 2009 and 2010 seasons?

 

[mysainters]

Personally i don't think BJ's position is Midfield i think HB is his best position.

It appears Hird and BJ think otherwise, will be interested to see how it pans out.

I thought he was great in there when he finally got a turn this year, and it was only Roo getting injured that saw him push forward.

I don't hold the 2011 performance against any of our mids, it wasn't just BJ that struggled to get a touch.

Ben was eventually dropped by Ross which was probably the right decision though not his fault that he was chucked in the deep end somewhat, and then Ross personally took over the stoppages from Harves as we were so poor.

What mid wouldn't enjoy roving to a combo of Ryder/Bellchambers...

I kind of like when there is subplots to a season, BJ is one of many to make 2013 very interesting.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

You didn't like his 2009 and 2010 seasons?

That was 2009/2010. What has he done the last 2 years when he was given time in the middle? I rate him more of a Half Back then a Midfield/Forward. My view, have your own.

 

[Persevering Saint]

It appears Hird and BJ think otherwise, will be interested to see how it pans out.

I thought he was great in there when he finally got a turn this year, and it was only Roo getting injured that saw him push forward.

I don't hold the 2011 performance against any of our mids, it wasn't just BJ that struggled to get a touch.

Ben was eventually dropped by Ross which was probably the right decision though not his fault that he was chucked in the deep end somewhat, and then Ross personally took over the stoppages from Harves as we were so poor.

What mid wouldn't enjoy roving to a combo of Ryder/Bellchambers...

I kind of like when there is subplots to a season, BJ is one of many to make 2013 very interesting.

Yeah, I think you're right there, K. In a lot of ways, 2013 will be a test, to see whether Watters was right about BJ, or BJ was right about BJ. I HAVE heard (and it could well be a rumour, so hey) that Watters told BJ that he was no longer in the top 15 or something of the team, and that his spot was going to come under pressure by the end of 2013 if he played like he had this year. It was meant to be a "pull your socks up" motivation, and backfired in BJ leaving.

 

[aussierulesrules]

That was 2009/2010. What has he done the last 2 years when he was given time in the middle? I rate him more of a Half Back then a Midfield/Forward. My view, have your own.

First of all, last year (2011) was pretty much a write off for him, after he injured his hip in R1 and like so many others, was also obviously out of sorts mentally, as a result of losing another GF and then this year, clearly his two best games were when he was given roles in the guts, late in the year, on Matthew Boyd and then I think it was Dane Swan, against Collingwood. He plays exceptionally well down back because HBF is an easier position, but he also played clearly the two best years of his career when he was playing mainly in the midfield.

I expect we'll see him back to pretty much his best form next year and I imagine it will be in the midfield, where he was playing so well near the end of this year (before he was moved forward to take Roo's spot, after he injured his knee, for the last few games).

 

[hayes]

TBH I care as much about BJ's form next year as I do for any other Essendon player - Zero.

If he plays well, good for him but even if he fails I won't take any joy from that either. I'm more interested in what the guys we've got to replace him do.

 

[maanco]

I saw Raph Clarke in Darwin on Sunday. He was the runner for the NTFL team St. Marys.

Theres either some really good young talent coming through in the NTFL or there Senior players are all shit. St. Marys where playing 3 talls + 2 ruckmen and 2 of the Talls are under 17, possibly under 16. My Mates little brother who is 14 was also playing seniors.

In the same game Raph was a runner. Fevola was playing and now he was useless with St. Marys Key Defender spoiling everything that game his way, although fev's put on a lot of weight now.
Nathan Buckley and a group from collingwood staff were also up here on the weekend.

Just thought it was worth sharing.