Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

[captainMyCaptain]

Well:

Steve Price ‏@StevePriceMedia
NOW: Ray Hadley breaks the news that as many as 30 players, across 6 clubs are now implicated in the #NRL ASADA investigation @2GB873

Lets hope it doesn't hit our code as hard

 

[mufassa]

Well:



Lets hope it doesn't hit our code as hard

Wow

 

[scottwade]

Do you think the mum of little Johnny is going to take her son to Auskick with bells on when there is discussion about systematic injecting to player's stomachs?

 

[snax]

Do you think the mum of little Johnny is going to take her son to Auskick with bells on when there is discussion about systematic injecting to player's stomachs?

I think Little Johnny's Mum would be there with bells on

 

[Calcium Man]

Curious as to how the waivers protect Essendon players if the procedures not just the substances are shown to illegal? I know there are certain rules for injections intravenously that require medical approval, but can't find anything on subcutaneous (in the stomach) injections.

 

[jenny61_99]

If he's not the most honest and upstanding person, why does everybody all of a sudden believe him 100% when he said that our coaches were on stuff that was outside the WADA code? BTW, I'm not having a direct go at you.

Because the alternative is far worse for you.

 

[jenny61_99]

Well:



Lets hope it doesn't hit our code as hard

I heard 22 players all from the Sharks, only 14 now still playing with the Sharks, the other players either retired or at other Clubs. Far reaching effects though.

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

Because the alternative is far worse for you.

But of course you also believe that a well balanced diet is all elite sportsmen need to maintain a healthy blood profile...

 

[TerryWallet]

Well:



Lets hope it doesn't hit our code as hard

Numbers such as 30 players doesn't surprise me. The ACC Report says whole teams were doped.

What would be interesting is if any players associated with a non-Dank club are ever involved in this stuff.

 

[jenny61_99]

But of course you also believe that a well balanced diet is all elite sportsmen need to maintain a healthy blood profile...

What?

 

[Sector 7G]

firstly, I don't know who you tagged, cos it ain't me!

It all depends doesn't it. On if they've actually done something wrong. Whilst that seems to be a given around here, I'll wait and see. If they have done something wrong, it's a conundrum as I see it. Because if the players know they took something dodgy, then I can't see how they escape with anything less than 2 years. The whole point of the extraordinary circumstances is if they didn't know. So if they try and "plea bargain", presumably that in itself skewers the whole thing, rendering the exercise pointless.

But the central fact is that the "waivers" or whatever the **** we're now calling them were requested and produced on the basis of the substances being administered being legit. And if they were signed off at higher levels, which they were, I'm absolutely inclined to believe they are.

So it's a moot question essentially. Either we're innocent (but still guilty of practices that will see the AFL drop the finezhammer - that is a given for mine); the players are ok because they didn't know, but then the club is screwed from a financial penalty perspective and, more far seriously in my opinion, legal action commences between players and club; or the players were aware, in which case coming forward surely can't help and the whole thing is a cluster**** of the highest order.

If they are innocent of administering banned substances then they take on everyone. And they win.

If the players have taken PEDs unknowingly I don't think there is any way they can not be suspended. The difference in the case of the Ukrainian Rower from the 2004 Olympics who was stripped of her Medal but not banned, is that she disclosed the medication she was administered by her team doctor before competing and it was only discovered after being tested. By disclosing the medication she took it was clear she had no intention cheating.

I don't think a waiver/consent/whatever is going to hold much sway over ASADA.

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

What?

Shall we compare degrees?

Answer this: why were Essendon players receiving ANY vitamin injections - intravenously (as Dank said) or subcutaneously in the first place? I am sure Essendon has a nutritionist on board, ensuring the boys have a balanced diet that includes vitamins from varied sources of natural ingredients. No need for injections of vitamins unless there is a severe deficiency. If there's a severe deficiency, then your nutritionist should be sacked.

My degree came from doing this stuff, not reading about it on the web ....

Remember you then went on to link articles that claim that elite athletes don't need extra supps apart from in extreme cases.

They listed a few of those cases and you said something like "I don't see any footballers on there". memory improving now?

Your whole argument at the time was along the lines of, and i quote from above, "Answer this: why were Essendon players receiving ANY vitamin injections - intravenously (as Dank said) or subcutaneously in the first place?"

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

If the players have taken PEDs unknowingly I don't think there is any way they can not be suspended. The difference in the case of the Ukrainian Rower from the 2004 Olympics who was stripped of her Medal but not banned, is that she disclosed the medication she was administered by her team doctor before competing and it was only discovered after being tested. By disclosing the medication she took it was clear she had no intention cheating.

I don't think a waiver/consent/whatever is going to hold much sway over ASADA.

It has already been stated, and was again today on SEN, from former ASADA chief that it is in fact possible to not be rubbed out and even warnings can be given if it can be proved that players were not aware of what they were being given.

However it needs to be proven beyond a shadow of doubt and needs to be so unequivocal that it is quite difficult to do so.

The consent form, if it is what we are led to believe it is, is going to hold a hell of a lot of weight and will be the center piece of any claim the players have.

 

[hirdy_is_champ]

Because the alternative is far worse for you.

Just merely trying to point out people deciding to believe people when it suits them.


No way this would just be an Essendon problem either. Like in cycling and tennis, its never just one rider or player. This is the sporting landscape today as it has been for years. EFC is on the chopping block right now, but don't ever think that your club is not up to its own shennanigans. Many of these sporting bodies such as the UCI, FIFA, ITF (International Tennis Federation) and even the ICC are corrupt. They are not interested in catching drug cheats due to the monetary impact on the sport. The AFL is probably not much different in this regard.

 

[Pie eyed]

Genius - shame Lance Armstrong did not sign a form. He would still be a 7 time tour winner.

An intelligent person would understand that it is not the players who signed the form in question but a representative of the club, who gave undertakings to the players that what the players were being administered was permitted under the WADA/ASADA code which, depending on what day it is and which individual substance the ACC are alleging was used, it was at the time.
Like when a building inspector signs a form which give the buyer an assurance the house they are buying won't fall down. You know?

 

[jenny61_99]

Remember you then went on to link articles that claim that elite athletes don't need extra supps apart from in extreme cases.

They listed a few of those cases and you said something like "I don't see any footballers on there". memory improving now?

Your whole argument at the time was along the lines of, and i quote from above, "Answer this: why were Essendon players receiving ANY vitamin injections - intravenously (as Dank said) or subcutaneously in the first place?"

My degree came from doing this stuff, not reading about it on the web ....

Ok, then how about you show all this evidence that you have from your doubtless years of study that indicates the practice of administering vitamins to AFL players intravenously - in an off site injecting room - is not only common, but necessary. Citations would be fine, but copies to the pdf papers would be better.

 

[sunshine_saint]

So he told the truth about what he gave the coaches and lied about the players.

Got it.

yes. do i have explain why?
coaches are not under any restrictions and he has to explain the supply chain somehow.
do you want me to draw you a diagram in stick figures or something?

 

[Stamos]

Sometimes Sam Newman is a buffoon and sometimes he cuts through the shit. On fire tonight afaic, unsurprisingly

Yep, Carlton is going to win the flag.

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

Ok, then how about you show all this evidence that you have from your doubtless years of study that indicates the practice of administering vitamins to AFL players intravenously - in an off site injecting room - is not only common, but necessary. Citations would be fine, but copies to the pdf papers would be better.

As i've already explained to you i don't have a degree, i did this stuff.It's the degree of life and it beats anything you read in a book or on the web. Your memory is quite bad, you may be deficient in vitamins.....

So you now remember your stance on players not needing anything other than a well balanced diet?

If you want to learn something off the web, you can look it up yourself, don't expect me to do your work for you...

 

[jenny61_99]

Just merely trying to point out people deciding to believe people when it suits them.


No way this would just be an Essendon problem either. Like in cycling and tennis, its never just one rider or player. This is the sporting landscape today as it has been for years. EFC is on the chopping block right now, but don't ever think that your club is not up to its own shennanigans. Many of these sporting bodies such as the UCI, FIFA, ITF (International Tennis Federation) and even the ICC are corrupt. They are not interested in catching drug cheats due to the monetary impact on the sport. The AFL is probably not much different in this regard.

No look I agree with you, but if I were in your shoes, I'd be hoping he was telling the truth.

At this stage, only Essendon appear to have the problem though. I know only too well that using the "but other Clubs must do it too" is neither here nor there, and doesn't change your situation.

 

[sunshine_saint]

So far the thing that sets Cronulla apart from everyone else is that they have had someone blow the whistle, providing full details of what the players were given. It seems ASADA's only way of proving anything, as all tests across the board have come up zilch.

And no, Reimer's:
"they made us sign something"
"waivers"
"ahhh...yeah something like that"

Is not whistleblowing.

So what you are saying is if the Bombers hang tough and stick fat and noone talks you can get away with cheating?
Ill bet thats what Lawyers have told the Bombers too and thats why we are at a stalemate right now.

 

[Sector 7G]

It has already been stated, and was again today on SEN, from former ASADA chief that it is in fact possible to not be rubbed out and even warnings can be given if it can be proved that players were not aware of what they were being given.

However it needs to be proven beyond a shadow of doubt and needs to be so unequivocal that it is quite difficult to do so.

The consent form, if it is what we are led to believe it is, is going to hold a hell of a lot of weight and will be the center piece of any claim the players have.

All seems a bit too easy. You have serious concerns with practices of the club. They say it is ok and then you are absolved of all responsibility. From the sections of the ASADA codes posted earlier it seemed to indicate full responsibility on the player to make sure they are clean.

I kind of get the impression the former ASADA chief is loving being mr rent a quote.

 

[whiteoak]

As i've already explained to you i don't have a degree, i did this stuff.It's the degree of life and it beats anything you read in a book or on the web. Your memory is quite bad, you may be deficient in vitamins.....

So you now remember your stance on players not needing anything other than a well balanced diet?

If you want to learn something off the web, you can look it up yourself, don't expect me to do your work for you...

Hang on.

You don't have a degree.

BUT...."you did this stuff".

And then you chastise someone from quoting from the web?? Would Encyclopdia Brittanica be a better resource for you?

However, you still know better than anyone....

OK champ.

 

[Achilles Heel]

yes. do i have explain why?
coaches are not under any restrictions and he has to explain the supply chain somehow.
do you want me to draw you a diagram in stick figures or something?

exactly , there is a paper trail that has to be explained away. do you think that the dodgy indian chemsit wont roll over?

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

All seems a bit too easy. You have serious concerns with practices of the club. They say it is ok and then you are absolved of all responsibility. From the sections of the ASADA codes posted earlier it seemed to indicate full responsibility on the player to make sure they are clean.

I kind of get the impression the former ASADA chief is loving being mr rent a quote.

But there are exceptional circumstances that can be out of the players hands.

When it comes to law and all this sort of stuff there is no black and white, only grey.

I agree, he does seem to be loving being the go to guy for any info anyone needs.