Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

[holy diver]

 

[Bennett.]

Stop being slippery spartan. There is no way that Noah's story is a true story.

You can't definitively claim that.

 

[Bennett.]

Mine is not only an expert opinion, but the only opinion, on how I reach my "intelligent conclusions". You seem to have little cognizance of certain aspects of cognition.

That's very humble of you.

 

[skilts]

That's very humble of you.

And, as usual, your post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Bennett.]

And, as usual, your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Like your beliefs

 

[skilts]

Like your beliefs

You know nothing of my beliefs.

 

[Bennett.]

You know nothing of my beliefs.

Oh, you've given a pretty good indication of what you lean towards.

 

[Roylion]

Why not? Maybe there are more animals now that there were?
Anyway, you asked me. Tell me why I shouldn't believe it.

There's no geological evidence for a global flood.

Indeed there is a interesting archaeological debate, that the story of Noah and other Flood stories in an ancient classical civilisations such as Greece, Sumer and so on MAY have been inspired by the sudden flooding of the Black Sea in around 5,600 BC.

Another hypotheses by Russian scientist Andrei Tchepalyga argues there was a earlier flood in the Black Sea caused by massive water overflow from the Caspian Sea over the Manych Strait about 11,000-14,000 BC.

 

[Bennett.]

There's no geological evidence for a global flood.

Indeed there is a interesting archaeological debate, that the story of Noah and other Flood stories in an ancient classical civilisations such as Greece, Sumer and so on MAY have been inspired by the sudden flooding of the Black Sea in around 5,600 BC.

Another hypotheses by Russian scientist Andrei Tchepalyga argues there was a earlier flood in the Black Sea caused by massive water overflow from the Caspian Sea over the Manych Strait about 11,000-14,000 BC.

So now there WAS a flood of epic proportions, just not 'global'. But it was only 'inspired' by actual events. Either it happened or it didn't.

 

[Roylion]

So now there WAS a flood of epic proportions, just not 'global'. But it was only 'inspired' by actual events. Either it happened or it didn't.

A local flood in possibly the Black Sea inspired the Utnapishtim flood myth found in the 11th tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Much later, this was adapted for use by the Jews in writing the Noah story.

Yes? And? What's so startling about this?

 

[Bennett.]

A local flood in possibly the Black Sea inspired the Utnapishtim flood myth found in the 11th tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Much later, this was adapted for use by the Jews in writing the Noah story.

Yes? And? What's so startling about this?

You realise that even by you trying to disprove the bible by saying this is sumerian or babylonian or what have you,
all it does is show that there is reliable historical material in the bible. A LOT of different accounts of the same event
actually mean something.

 

[Roylion]

You realise that even by you trying to disprove the bible by saying this is sumerian or babylonian or what have you all it does is show that there is reliable historical material in the bible.

But the Noah myth isn't among that reliable historical material.

The so-called flood could well be a river flood.

The oldest Mesopotamian flood story of Atrahasis written sometime between 1800 BC and 1700 BC (which was adapted by the writers of the later Epic of Gilgamesh, written between 1300-1000 BC ) concerns a river flood. Atrahasis III iv, lines 6–7: says "Like dragonflies they have filled the river." was changed in Gilgamesh XI line 123 to: "Like the spawn of fishes, they fill the sea."

A LOT of different accounts of the same event actually mean something.

You don't know that it was the same event. There may have been a number of local floods, of which the different works were based on. We know that the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flooded on a regular basis.

 

[skilts]

Oh, you've given a pretty good indication of what you lean towards.

Which means you still have no understanding of my beliefs. Even if you did, what would that gain you? Beliefs are irrelevant to any informed debate. That's why you will find written nowhere on these boards any example of me putting beliefs forward in support of a serious argument. I occasionally write my opinions of various footballers on here, but you'd hardly call that a serious debate.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You can't definitively claim that.

Of course you can.

It's a preposterous story, and just goes to show the lengths of ridiculous story telling that parts of the bible go to.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

But the Noah myth isn't among that reliable historical material.

The so-called flood could well be a river flood.

The oldest Mesopotamian flood story of Atrahasis written sometime between 1800 BC and 1700 BC (which was adapted by the writers of the later Epic of Gilgamesh, written between 1300-1000 BC ) concerns a river flood. Atrahasis III iv, lines 6–7: says "Like dragonflies they have filled the river." was changed in Gilgamesh XI line 123 to: "Like the spawn of fishes, they fill the sea."



You don't know that it was the same event. There may have been a number of local floods, of which the different works were based on. We know that the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers flooded on a regular basis.

Isn't there evidence of the dead sea being created from a geological event around the time of the Noah legend?

 

[Roylion]

Isn't there evidence of the dead sea being created from a geological event around the time of the Noah legend?

Not that I know of.

The Dead Sea is in the Jordan Rift Valley which was formed about 3 million years ago. The lake that originally formed the Dead Sea was formed about 2 million years ago. There have been various seismic events since then as you would expect from being located on a fault line. The Dead Sea was definitely around before the time "Noah" was supposed to have existed.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Not that I know of.

The Dead Sea is in the Jordan Rift Valley which was formed about 3 million years ago. The lake that originally formed the Dead Sea was formed about 2 million years ago. There have been various seismic events since then as you would expect from being located on a fault line. The Dead Sea was definitely around before the time "Noah" was supposed to have existed.

Apologies, I meant the Black Sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

 

[Bennett.]

Of course you can.

It's a preposterous story, and just goes to show the lengths of ridiculous story telling that parts of the bible go to.

well, no you can't. You can not definitively nor conclusively back up your claims, therefore you are either ignorant, deluded or a liar. Which one is it?

 

[Bennett.]

Which means you still have no understanding of my beliefs. Even if you did, what would that gain you? Beliefs are irrelevant to any informed debate. That's why you will find written nowhere on these boards any example of me putting beliefs forward in support of a serious argument. I occasionally write my opinions of various footballers on here, but you'd hardly call that a serious debate.

You may think that, but your support and/or derision shows exactly what you believe. Any attempts to claim
otherwise lead to delusion of yourself.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

You may think that, but your support and/or derision shows exactly what you believe. Any attempts to claim
otherwise lead to delusion of yourself.

You still need to produce your god, regardless of the mind games.

 

[skilts]

You may think that, but your support and/or derision shows exactly what you believe. Any attempts to claim
otherwise lead to delusion of yourself.

I bow to your superior knowledge of me. Are you a psychologist by any chance?

 

[Bennett.]

I bow to your superior knowledge of me. Are you a psychologist by any chance?

Not at all, do you require one? I'm just relaying what I read.

 

[evo]

well, no you can't. You can not definitively nor conclusively back up your claims, therefore you are either ignorant, deluded or a liar. Which one is it?

there is not enough facepalms for this sort of work.

 

[skilts]

Not at all, do you require one? I'm just relaying what I read.

I require a justification for your preposterous assertion that you understand my being more acutely than I do. The hubris of the committed fantasist laid bare.

Edit: The bolded bit is the nub of your problem. You believe any actual thinking by you to be prohibited. The word for such activity is, 'parroting'.

 

[Bennett.]

there is not enough facepalms for this sort of work.

So, no legitimate comebacks then?