Tiger_Of_Old
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhh ok.
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ABC's 7:30 on New Hird/Dank evidence - 11 April; 3AW/9 Report Text Msg Contents
- Thread starter Chief
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MaddAdam
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Bay 13: Vintage Bay
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The bloke who called an umpire a cheat and spent a year denying he was after the coaching job while the whole time engaging in secret negotiations to get it?
Model of probity.
Defacto
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 21, 2008
- 22,930
- 17,129
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- St Kilda
pressure needs to be put on SEN to ask spike the hard questions
go on then
I'm not advocating sweeping anything under carpet, I just think it would be better for the football world if one of its towering figures turns out to be innocent. Of course if he is guilty of anything untoward, I would want him to face the consequences. I just hope he's innocent. I don't take any pleasure in this shitstorm, even when it's a rival club who is taking attention of my own club's considerable woes.
- Apr 19, 2012
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- San Francisco 49ers, Hertha Berlin
Plenty of people made this argument in the Lance Armstrong saga.
Not the way to go at all.
Defacto
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 21, 2008
- 22,930
- 17,129
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
as to why he personally attacked reimers in the way he did and why he was so adamant he could speak on behalf of all players that all they ever took was vitamin b and c shots
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
ABC Hird story - might as well have some transcript in here.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735256.htm
In February, Essendon went public to announce it had asked the anti-doping agency, ASADA, to investigate Dank's supplements regime and James Hird said he was disappointed and shocked at what he'd learned about it.
But information obtained by 7.30 suggests the Bombers coach was deeply involved with the supplements program and worked closely with Dank on its implementation.
.....
JAMES HIRD (Feb. 5, 2013): I'm very disappointed, shocked, I think probably the best word. We believe that as the leader of the football department, as the coach take full responsibility of what happens within our football department and I believe we've followed processes, we've put in place the right sort of processes. My understanding is that we worked within the framework that was given to us by the AFL and by WADA, and I'm shocked to be sitting here, really.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Six days later, on 7.30, Dank revealed that Essendon coaches and staff were also on their own separate supplements and peptides regime.
How many coaches at Essendon or staff outside of the playing assembly were taking supplements?
STEVE DANK, BIOCHEMIST: Oh, look, should try and give you a quick number off the top of my head, it may have been three, four, maybe five that were taking vitamin supplements, protein supplements, you know. And as I said, ...
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: And were they taking supplements that were outside of the regulations, and again, they're entitled to do so because they aren't playing, they're not players?
STEVE DANK: Um, look, to be perfectly honest, there were a couple of coaches that were using some supplements, if you like, that were a little bit outside the WADA code, but again, they were entitled to it and certainly nothing illegal there.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: This section of the Dank interview has not been previously broadcast.
Was coach James Hird in the fraternity that was also using supplements?
STEVE DANK: Oh, look, I'm obviously not gonna discuss any individual case, as I wouldn't discuss any individual case in relation to the players and I think it'd be sorta very inappropriate for that.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: I'm going to put to you information that 7.30 has now involving James Hird and this is your opportunity to correct the record and clarify it. You are the person that can. 7.30 has been informed that James Hird was on his own supplements program and that was known by many people within the club.
STEVE DANK: Um, well, certainly, you know, I know there were times when James was a little bit sick and rundown, he certainly had his vitamin regime and various other tablets that we took as part of the regime. So, certainly, James was part of that program, if you like, like other coaching staff was. But again, there was certainly - there was nothing untoward in that program and there was certainly nothing untoward in what James took.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Now, 7:30 has obtained months’ worth of detailed text messages, exchanged between James Hird and Stephen Dank throughout 2012. While they don't prove Hird used the peptide Hexarelin, they do reveal Hird's intimate knowledge and involvement in all aspects of the players' supplements regime, which was up and running at Essendon well before the start of the season.
TEXT MESSAGE FROM JAMES HIRD TO STEVE DANKS (male voiceover): "Good work today, mate. The boys were up and about. We have a lot of work to do."
TEXT MESSAGE FROM STEVE DANKS TO JAMES HIRD (male voiceover): "IV start next week. And Thymosin with Uniquinone. We will start to see some real effects."
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: According to information obtained by 7:30, the supplements were administered at this now-defunct clinic, Skinovate, located conveniently opposite the Bombers' headquarters at Windy Hill. Dank has also told 7:30 all the supplements he gave to players were not prohibited or banned at the time. The texts show almost the entire playing group were on the supplements program.
.....
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Today Stephen Dank wasn't available for an on-camera interview with 7.30. But he said that he injected coach Hird with Hexarelin twice weekly for three quarters of the season. He also said that on game day, inside the coach's box, he provided some coaches with Ephedrine and Propranolol, supplements designed to decrease anxiety and increase alertness.
The ASADA register shows Hexarelin is banned for athletes. However, an ASADA spokesman told 7.30 late today that the substance is not prohibited for coaches.
....
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: While it's now clear that Steve Dank didn't operate in isolation at Essendon, will his former colleagues tell all about their involvement?
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735256.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735256.htm
In February, Essendon went public to announce it had asked the anti-doping agency, ASADA, to investigate Dank's supplements regime and James Hird said he was disappointed and shocked at what he'd learned about it.
But information obtained by 7.30 suggests the Bombers coach was deeply involved with the supplements program and worked closely with Dank on its implementation.
.....
JAMES HIRD (Feb. 5, 2013): I'm very disappointed, shocked, I think probably the best word. We believe that as the leader of the football department, as the coach take full responsibility of what happens within our football department and I believe we've followed processes, we've put in place the right sort of processes. My understanding is that we worked within the framework that was given to us by the AFL and by WADA, and I'm shocked to be sitting here, really.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Six days later, on 7.30, Dank revealed that Essendon coaches and staff were also on their own separate supplements and peptides regime.
How many coaches at Essendon or staff outside of the playing assembly were taking supplements?
STEVE DANK, BIOCHEMIST: Oh, look, should try and give you a quick number off the top of my head, it may have been three, four, maybe five that were taking vitamin supplements, protein supplements, you know. And as I said, ...
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: And were they taking supplements that were outside of the regulations, and again, they're entitled to do so because they aren't playing, they're not players?
STEVE DANK: Um, look, to be perfectly honest, there were a couple of coaches that were using some supplements, if you like, that were a little bit outside the WADA code, but again, they were entitled to it and certainly nothing illegal there.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: This section of the Dank interview has not been previously broadcast.
Was coach James Hird in the fraternity that was also using supplements?
STEVE DANK: Oh, look, I'm obviously not gonna discuss any individual case, as I wouldn't discuss any individual case in relation to the players and I think it'd be sorta very inappropriate for that.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: I'm going to put to you information that 7.30 has now involving James Hird and this is your opportunity to correct the record and clarify it. You are the person that can. 7.30 has been informed that James Hird was on his own supplements program and that was known by many people within the club.
STEVE DANK: Um, well, certainly, you know, I know there were times when James was a little bit sick and rundown, he certainly had his vitamin regime and various other tablets that we took as part of the regime. So, certainly, James was part of that program, if you like, like other coaching staff was. But again, there was certainly - there was nothing untoward in that program and there was certainly nothing untoward in what James took.
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Now, 7:30 has obtained months’ worth of detailed text messages, exchanged between James Hird and Stephen Dank throughout 2012. While they don't prove Hird used the peptide Hexarelin, they do reveal Hird's intimate knowledge and involvement in all aspects of the players' supplements regime, which was up and running at Essendon well before the start of the season.
TEXT MESSAGE FROM JAMES HIRD TO STEVE DANKS (male voiceover): "Good work today, mate. The boys were up and about. We have a lot of work to do."
TEXT MESSAGE FROM STEVE DANKS TO JAMES HIRD (male voiceover): "IV start next week. And Thymosin with Uniquinone. We will start to see some real effects."
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: According to information obtained by 7:30, the supplements were administered at this now-defunct clinic, Skinovate, located conveniently opposite the Bombers' headquarters at Windy Hill. Dank has also told 7:30 all the supplements he gave to players were not prohibited or banned at the time. The texts show almost the entire playing group were on the supplements program.
.....
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Today Stephen Dank wasn't available for an on-camera interview with 7.30. But he said that he injected coach Hird with Hexarelin twice weekly for three quarters of the season. He also said that on game day, inside the coach's box, he provided some coaches with Ephedrine and Propranolol, supplements designed to decrease anxiety and increase alertness.
The ASADA register shows Hexarelin is banned for athletes. However, an ASADA spokesman told 7.30 late today that the substance is not prohibited for coaches.
....
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: While it's now clear that Steve Dank didn't operate in isolation at Essendon, will his former colleagues tell all about their involvement?
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735256.htm
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Richard Ings on 7-30 last night straight after the Hird story.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735261.htm
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Joining me now is the former head of the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Agency, Richard Ings.
Mr Ings, what's your reaction to that story, specifically the text messages between Steve Dank and James Hird?
RICHARD INGS, FORMER HEAD, AUST. SPORTS ANTI-DOPING AGENCY: Well the text messages that are being exchanged are somewhat troubling, particularly the discussion about intravenous use of substances, because we need to understand that there are banned substances, but there are also banned methods and the use of intravenous injections could potentially be such a banned method.
LEIGH SALES: Was there anything else that bothered you in that exchange?
RICHARD INGS: I'm sorry, Leigh, you cut out. I'm sorry.
LEIGH SALES: I'm sorry. Was there anything else that particularly bothered you among those exchanges?
RICHARD INGS: Well that was the predominant thing that did concern me. The other thing that was a concern was that these are clearly treatments which are pushing the envelope, and I'm really very surprised that the parties involved were not sitting down with ASADA and presenting ASADA with the programs that they had in mind to make sure that they were absolutely above and beyond and complied with the World Anti-Doping Agency code.
LEIGH SALES: Is there any discrepancy in your view between what James Hird said publicly at the time that the ASADA investigation broke and what has been reported today?
RICHARD INGS: Well I really don't want to be drawn on the allegation that Mr Dank has made against James Hird. And of course James Hird has very significantly rebutted those accusations. This is a matter for the Ziggy Switkowski independent investigation at the Bombers, and also the ASADA investigation. But what is clear is that coaches should not be involved in any way, shape or form with the use or the promotion of prohibited substances. It is a conflict of interests with their players.
LEIGH SALES: We heard someone in that story say that, well, it's actually not illegal for the coach to use some of those substances. Why then do you say that it's wrong?
RICHARD INGS: Well, absolutely under the World-Anti Doping code and the AFL anti-doping policy, it's not prohibited for coaches to be involved in using banned substances. But coaches are in positions of trust and also positions of influence with their players. It's difficult for a coach to tell their players they cannot use banned substances and then be using those same banned substances themselves.
......
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735261.htm
I don't know when Ings last read the full AFL 2010 anti doping code, but the way I read it, coaches can't use PEDs under clause 3, especially coaches who are ex players.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735261.htm
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Joining me now is the former head of the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Agency, Richard Ings.
Mr Ings, what's your reaction to that story, specifically the text messages between Steve Dank and James Hird?
RICHARD INGS, FORMER HEAD, AUST. SPORTS ANTI-DOPING AGENCY: Well the text messages that are being exchanged are somewhat troubling, particularly the discussion about intravenous use of substances, because we need to understand that there are banned substances, but there are also banned methods and the use of intravenous injections could potentially be such a banned method.
LEIGH SALES: Was there anything else that bothered you in that exchange?
RICHARD INGS: I'm sorry, Leigh, you cut out. I'm sorry.
LEIGH SALES: I'm sorry. Was there anything else that particularly bothered you among those exchanges?
RICHARD INGS: Well that was the predominant thing that did concern me. The other thing that was a concern was that these are clearly treatments which are pushing the envelope, and I'm really very surprised that the parties involved were not sitting down with ASADA and presenting ASADA with the programs that they had in mind to make sure that they were absolutely above and beyond and complied with the World Anti-Doping Agency code.
LEIGH SALES: Is there any discrepancy in your view between what James Hird said publicly at the time that the ASADA investigation broke and what has been reported today?
RICHARD INGS: Well I really don't want to be drawn on the allegation that Mr Dank has made against James Hird. And of course James Hird has very significantly rebutted those accusations. This is a matter for the Ziggy Switkowski independent investigation at the Bombers, and also the ASADA investigation. But what is clear is that coaches should not be involved in any way, shape or form with the use or the promotion of prohibited substances. It is a conflict of interests with their players.
LEIGH SALES: We heard someone in that story say that, well, it's actually not illegal for the coach to use some of those substances. Why then do you say that it's wrong?
RICHARD INGS: Well, absolutely under the World-Anti Doping code and the AFL anti-doping policy, it's not prohibited for coaches to be involved in using banned substances. But coaches are in positions of trust and also positions of influence with their players. It's difficult for a coach to tell their players they cannot use banned substances and then be using those same banned substances themselves.
......
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3735261.htm
I don't know when Ings last read the full AFL 2010 anti doping code, but the way I read it, coaches can't use PEDs under clause 3, especially coaches who are ex players.
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
A lot of people associated Lance Armstrong with absolute integrity.
The more things unravel in this saga the more parallels I see between the golden boy and Armstrong.
Hamlet:
O most pernicious woman!
O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain!
My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain—
At least I am sure it may be so in Denmark.
Hamlet Act 1, scene 5, 105–109
Section 3 merely references who the code (as a whole) applies to.
Section 3.2 is relevant as to violations/sanctions.
Section 11 is however the most pertinent in relation to the use/possession/administration/trafficking of prohibited substances/methods.
Section 11.2 makes clear mention of use/attempted use by a player.
The other pertinent sections (in 11) do not distinguish between players and support personnel.
I covered it in a bit more detail here;
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...e-on-the-bombers.998285/page-18#post-27725790
It is clear, as Ings and others have stated, that Hird as a coach can use PEDs (although of course he denies having done so).
Hird's status as an ex-player is irrelevant.
On any reasonable interpretation I'd suggest that clause is intended to concern the activities of an individual when he WAS playing. It is not intended to subject the current activities of an individual to scrutiny because he was at one time a player.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
That was my initial reaction in February ie a reasonable interpretation. But the definition is broadly written and the longer and deeper this goes, the AFL might not be so reasonable. As we saw with the the GC start up rules, GWS start up rules and compo pick rules, a reasonable interpretation of AFL rules and the AFL's interpretation are not always congruent.
RobertRichter
Team Captain
- Mar 5, 2013
- 599
- 409
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Banned
- #414
If you are an Essendon supporter, I implore you to d/l / listen to Triple M's interview of the Sydney reporter who broke the text chain last night.
He said he has 6 months of texts. When asked whether the ones he disclosed last night were the most damning, he said they were on the tame scale of what he has.
He then went onto to explain he only released what he did owing to the legal parameters set out to him by whoever is leaking them. He said when the time comes, much more damning texts will be released, which implicates Hird.
Vlad knows it's going to get even more messier.
He said he has 6 months of texts. When asked whether the ones he disclosed last night were the most damning, he said they were on the tame scale of what he has.
He then went onto to explain he only released what he did owing to the legal parameters set out to him by whoever is leaking them. He said when the time comes, much more damning texts will be released, which implicates Hird.
Vlad knows it's going to get even more messier.
shane charter character evidence criminal trial.
goes down as one of the great character evidence submissions up there with jason moran and wayne carey. those 2002 and 2003 nutrition remittance cheques musta done some great things for hirdy in his dietetics regimen
blackshadow
Hall of Famer
Fancy comparing that Windy Hill shithole to Denmark! What would Princess Mary think?
RobertRichter
Team Captain
- Mar 5, 2013
- 599
- 409
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Banned
- #417
Stephen Dank just trolled Andy D and took Hird with him.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
the least they could do is spell his name right while he hangs us out to dry
Rodney Dangerfield
Doesn’t matter
He really went hard didn't he.
He's playing like a man with a royal flush. Just adds to the bizarre nature of the whole thing.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Very few get it right. I'm now so accustomed to the media and BF posters saying Danks instead of Dank, I completely missed it.
RobertRichter
Team Captain
- Mar 5, 2013
- 599
- 409
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Banned
- #421
Andy D would be seething.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
were did he do that?
Rodney Dangerfield
Doesn’t matter
He certainly doesn't strike me as someone who'd take too well to being told to be very careful and pull your head in does old Vlad.
Rodney Dangerfield
Doesn’t matter
Was just on Nine news along with the reporter verifying he's seen the texts on Danks phone with his own eyes.
RobertRichter
Team Captain
- Mar 5, 2013
- 599
- 409
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Banned
- #425
On 9.
Danny Weilder (sp) is the RL journalist who has Dank's ear.
Dank basically defended Hird and then fired a massive broadside at Andy D, questioning his understanding of supplements.
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