SALADA/VladFL: Slap on the wrist. - STRICTLY ESSENDON SUPPORTERS ONLY

[VelvetSledge]

Speculation, speculation everywhere.

 

[Old Campaigner]

The Age now has their #1 story, with a Bombers jumber saying "players could be fined $5100 per day. The article actually refers to new powers allowing ASADA to force people to talk. Which has nothing to do with Essendon, who have fully cooperated. Clearly this is set up for Cronulla.

This is going beyond a joke.

Yeah. SMH article, pictures of rugby players etc. Better make it relevent for a Melbourne audience though, slap some black an red on it.

 

[militiaa]

This thymosin beta 4, this is not new news what so ever, and the fact the club is confident doesn't concern me what so ever give me a break.

 

[cymarak]

The Age now has their #1 story, with a Bombers jumber saying "players could be fined $5100 per day. The article actually refers to new powers allowing ASADA to force people to talk. Which has nothing to do with Essendon, who have fully cooperated. Clearly this is set up for Cronulla.

From an AFL point-of-view, it's really set up for Dank.

This is going beyond a joke.

It's been beyond a joke for a long while now.

At least in this case it's probably just lazy / sloppy sub-editing rather than malice.

 

[The Dustbin]

Tim Watson (SEN).

"The media need to be prepared for the disappointment of ASADA clearing players"

 

[Old Campaigner]

From an AFL point-of-view, it's really set up for Dank.

Didn't think of that, although I don't think he can be interviewed before the investigation is due to be completed.

 

[Matthew_Lloyd]

Tim Watson (SEN).

HEAD IN THE SAND!!11

 

[rumply]

Tim Watson (SEN).

Assume this was this morning?

 

[cymarak]

Surely ASADA couldn't sanction players on the basis of probability only that a banned substance was given to players?

In terms of the AFL's anti-doping code, 'probability only' isn't enough - the prosecution have to prove players took a banned substance by more than just 'balance of probability' (but they don't need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt).

So in crude terms, if the tribunal considered it 51% likely that players took banned drugs, that wouldn't be enough to find the players guilty, but, say, a 75% probability might be enough.

15.1 Burden and Standard of Proof​

​

AFL shall have the burden of establishing that an Anti Doping Rule Violation has occurred. The standard of proof shall be whether AFL has established an Anti Doping Rule Violation to the comfortable satisfaction of CAS or the Tribunal bearing in mind the seriousness of the allegation which is made. This standard of proof in all cases is greater than a mere balance of probability, but less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Where this Code places the burden of proof upon the Player or other Person alleged to have committed an Anti Doping Rule Violation to rebut a presumption or establish specified facts or circumstances, the standard of proof shall 34 be by a balance of probability, except as provided in Clauses 14.3 and 14.5 where the Player must satisfy a higher burden of proof.​

Would that actually hold up in a real court?

No real idea, but my guess is it would hold up (as long as the decision was made following the AFL's published rules and players were allowed to present a defence, were given an opportunity to appeal, etc.).

 

[Kaiser Powser]

From an AFL point-of-view, it's really set up for Dank.


It's been beyond a joke for a long while now.

At least in this case it's probably just lazy / sloppy sub-editing rather than malice.

True about Dank. Still it specifically mentions players being fined $5100 a day which is utter bullshit, as all Essendon players have already given evidence.

 

[cymarak]

Didn't think of that, although I don't think he can be interviewed before the investigation is due to be completed.

From the article on The Age website, ASADA would be able to use its new coercive powers later this month, but that's probably cutting it fine if the investigation is meant to be wrapped up in early August.

I find it bizarre that ASADA will have run - and supposedly completed - a very high profile 6 month investigation without interviewing the person who is at the absolute centre of what's gone on.

It makes it look as though the timetable for the investigation is being dictated by AFL finals starting in September, not by how long it would take to do a full and proper job.

 

[cymarak]

True about Dank. Still it specifically mentions players being fined $5100 a day which is utter bullshit, as all Essendon players have already given evidence.

It's the special kind of bullshit the media do, where they don't actually technically lie, but they paint a misleading picture for their own gain.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

From the article on The Age website, ASADA would be able to use its new coercive powers later this month, but that's probably cutting it fine if the investigation is meant to be wrapped up in early August.

I find it bizarre that ASADA will have run - and supposedly completed - a very high profile 6 month investigation without interviewing the person who is at the absolute centre of what's gone on.

It makes it look as though the timetable for the investigation is being dictated by AFL finals starting in September, not by how long it would take to do a full and proper job.

Dank has always said that he would give evidence if any players were charged.

I don't actually think ASADA will be that worried about Dank. Is there anything forcing him to tell them the truth?

 

[Yoda_]

My head hurts

 

[Matthew_Lloyd]

I read somewhere that ASADA believe Dank's testimony is not that important to Essendon seeing as they have collected their evidence through our players honesty and the club's willingness to co-operate. It's the NRL investigation which they want him to talk, seeing as Cronulla have shut up shop

 

[Old Campaigner]

From the article on The Age website, ASADA would be able to use its new coercive powers later this month, but that's probably cutting it fine if the investigation is meant to be wrapped up in early August.

I find it bizarre that ASADA will have run - and supposedly completed - a very high profile 6 month investigation without interviewing the person who is at the absolute centre of what's gone on.

It makes it look as though the timetable for the investigation is being dictated by AFL finals starting in September, not by how long it would take to do a full and proper job.

I hope in that case ASADA think they have what they need to make a clear decision one way or another then. Maybe they didn't need Dank, who knows? It all seems like weird, quasi-legal bullshit to me. Why not just give the cops the powers to investigate PED use and do away with ASADA entirely?

 

[Kaiser Powser]

I hope in that case ASADA think they have what they need to make a clear decision one way or another then. Maybe they didn't need Dank, who knows? It all seems like weird, quasi-legal bullshit to me. Why not just give the cops the powers to investigate PED use and do away with ASADA entirely?

Because the cops don't like being tied up in quasi legal bullshit. It would also be low on their list of priorities, as it does not raise revenue nor does it affect the safety of the population.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I read somewhere that ASADA believe Dank's testimony is not that important to Essendon seeing as they have collected their evidence through our players honesty and the club's willingness to co-operate. It's the NRL investigation which they want him to talk, seeing as Cronulla have shut up shop

Yes but don't tell the media.

I heard today some story on the radio about how ESSENDON IS REFUSING TO COMMENT ON FRESH DRUG CLAIMS!!

Like it's some sort of new thing, Hird's been saying "no comment" since day 0 yet now it's front page news.

 

[B 52]

I hope in that case ASADA think they have what they need to make a clear decision one way or another then. Maybe they didn't need Dank, who knows? It all seems like weird, quasi-legal bullshit to me. Why not just give the cops the powers to investigate PED use and do away with ASADA entirely?

yeah we should get Queensland cops to do the investigation,their how I say open to monetary gain lol.

 

[The Dustbin]

Assume this was this morning?

To my understanding, yes.

 

[cymarak]

Dank has always said that he would give evidence if any players were charged.

The article in The Age had this to say - don't know if it's true:

Sports scientist Stephen Dank told Fairfax Media last week that he would protest to the High Court to avoid being interviewed by ASADA investigators.​

I don't actually think ASADA will be that worried about Dank. Is there anything forcing him to tell them the truth?

If he's found to have lied during an interview, he'd face up to 12 months in prison for providing false or misleading information to a Commonwealth officer (Criminal Code Act 1995, Section 137.1).

 

[Old Don]

Dank has always said that he would give evidence if any players were charged.

I don't actually think ASADA will be that worried about Dank. Is there anything forcing him to tell them the truth?

The new ASADA legislation can compel people to attend interviews and to provide documents:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2013A00126

However:

the legislation states that a person being interviewed can decline to answer questions on the grounds of self-incrimination (refer section 13D)

Dank has indicated that he would challenge any notice to attend an interview. We have all seen how smart lawyers and the layers of appeals processes can draw out such procedures.

I would not count on Dank attending an ASADA interview and providing complete responses to questions at any time, let alone by August!

 

[mxett]

Assume this was this morning?

Yes.

Also reiterated Patrick Smiths comments that the media have been as shallow in their commentary of the essendon sage as ASADA have been deep. He seemed more confident than ever that the players will be cleared and the situation is immensely more complex than the media have been reporting

 

[Phone]

Dank's text messages would add far far far more to the investigation than a Dank interview

 

[Old Campaigner]

yeah we should get Queensland cops to do the investigation,their how I say open to monetary gain lol.

Adam Goodes would be a bit nervous if the NSW cops got involved, they don't mind tasering aborigines from time to time (Brazilians too, look out Harry-O!)