Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

[Comettski_1]

Breaking news, Bummers hire new medical director

This guy was a close second:

 

[bomberclifford]

This guy was a close second:

I think Melbourne hired this guy.

 

[Comettski_1]

I think Melbourne hired this guy.

Well played sir

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Whatever it Takes has been changed to

Whatever it Tacos

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The 'Mexican Supplement' sounds like a bad action movie.

Machine gun the evidence.

 

[Relativity]

Whatever it Takes has been changed to

Whatever it Tacos

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Apparently if Hird steps down before Tuesday the other three will be off the hook. Man, the AFL does not **** around.

According to Caro the offer was made earlier this week and Hird rejected it.

Hird refused offer to save colleagues

 

[Steve Dore]

Essendon have announced there new fitness coach.

 

[*PAF]

According to Caro the offer was made earlier this week and Hird rejected it.

Hird refused offer to save colleagues

I read it as being made last week and assumed that it was what Roo was talking about.

 

[bomberclifford]

It's ok everyone, the vial didn't come from Mexico, it came from NEW Mexico. Phew!

 

[Stromageddon]

It's ok everyone, the vial didn't come from Mexico, it came from NEW Mexico. Phew!

So that's what Walter was doing with the ricin behind the power point cover!

 

[b0ydman]

Ok. Am I stupid (dont reply Alex)
When did 'not prohibited" mean approved for use?
Watching 360 and the media, basically saying Essenjection in the clear because fat drug wasn't on that prohibited list.

Is this just spin.

Am I dumb?

Are robbo and Gerard that ignorant?

 

[Rexie J]

Still think it appears to be a long way from shining a spotlight on the "Darkest day in Australian sport"

Unless of course it's in reference to administration issues.

At present, none of us are privy to the enquiries contents, however to my mind the AFL supplements issue currently is about on a par with clubs pumping players full of pain killing injections prior to and during games. Long term effects???

There has yet to be established any PED have been administered rather the argument is about what is approved and not approved and by which organisation. Hence the apparent discussions re the legal interpretations and definitions.

The latest 'revelation' by the former AFL Anti_Doping Tribunal member further confuses the issues.

Who told who what???

PS....I'm not naive enough to believe PEDs have not been used at some stage in footy. I'm still shaking the head about that press conference earlier this year.

 

[*PAF]

Wow!!
Time to watch AFL 360 and every other show tonight.

 

[Forzaport]

Just read the AFL's 'Statement of Grounds' against Essendon.

Now that I have a better understanding of what the charges are based on, I can confidently state that I would have been able to run a more successful sports science program that was built on evidence-based research and not bucket science backed by meat heads. Would have been far more cutting edge to boot. The sad truth is that the sports science delivered to Essendon by Dank was laughable and pathetic. The club should be punished to the fullest extent possible for their horrendously irresponsible behaviour. If I had children in the AFL, I would not want them at Essendon.

 

[MrMeaner]

If I had children in the AFL, I would not want them at Essendon.

That's the real point. There is a real failure to protect their players' long term health and and well-being.

 

[*PAF]

Wow:
21. On 23 August 2011 Hird received from Benita Lalor (
Lalor
), the Club’s then Performance Dietitian and Recovery Coordinator, her appraisal of Lactaway. Ms Lalor’s appraisal included statements that suggested that there was no meaningful proof of beneficial effects, no data on the side effects/long term use of Lactaway in elite athletes and potentially relevant warnings that its use may cause additional muscle damage.
22. Less than three minutes after receiving this information from Lalor, Hird forwarded her email to Corcoran with the comment: "This is what we are dealing with."
23. Later on 23 August 2011 Corcoran emailed a reply to Hird stating "Jim – unfortunately they know everything and can’t learn any more! Time to move on! ..."

 

[bomberclifford]

Hird is gone. There's no way he'll survive this.

 

[Steve Dore]

...... If I had children in the AFL, I would not want them at Essendon.

I heard Tim Watson interviewed on ABC Radio this morning after a meeting between Essendon and the players' parents and he said that none of the substances administered to the players have long term health issues for the players.

 

[bringbackbucky]

Just read the whole charge sheet report. Fascinating reading.

Amateur hour at the Bombers. The mind boggles that a multi million dollar organisation could be taking such a backyard approach to such a serious thing.

Amongst other things, absolutey no doubt that the players were all give illegal peptides, disguised as amino acids. Just not enough evidence to actually prove it to suspend the players. Enough circumstantial evidence to bring the rest of the house down though. They are screwed and deserve everything they get.


Let's hope the drugs kick back in for this week's game against Carltank.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

34 pages of details and charges, with a few black texta black outs at

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

 

[davesnothere]

Wow:
21. On 23 August 2011 Hird received from Benita Lalor (
Lalor
), the Club’s then Performance Dietitian and Recovery Coordinator, her appraisal of Lactaway. Ms Lalor’s appraisal included statements that suggested that there was no meaningful proof of beneficial effects, no data on the side effects/long term use of Lactaway in elite athletes and potentially relevant warnings that its use may cause additional muscle damage.
22. Less than three minutes after receiving this information from Lalor, Hird forwarded her email to Corcoran with the comment: "This is what we are dealing with."
23. Later on 23 August 2011 Corcoran emailed a reply to Hird stating "Jim – unfortunately they know everything and can’t learn any more! Time to move on! ..."

You would think there is no coming back from that....I don't think it's safe for James to even go to the football on Saturday... much less coach a side.

The Bombers gave the responsibility of coaching a side to these clowns ....it doesn't surprise me in a way because I genuinely believed that this is the character that James has been hiding....I'm just shocked that I was right.

 

[finbarr]

Ok, I'm at work and I'm driving. Can anyone put up a summary?

 

[Adz2332]

Summed up
- Hird is Fkd
- Ess are to dumb for words
- Nothing will happen before the finals

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The mystery Dr Reid letter to James Hird and paul Hamilton has been released.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-21/full-text-of-dr-bruce-reids-letter

Dr Bruce Reid wrote to James Hird and then football manager Paul Hamilton in January 2012 expressing his concern over the supplements program. His communication was revealed as part of the list of charges levelled by the AFL against the Bombers.

Dear James/Paul


I have some fundamental problems being club doctor at present. This particularly applies to the administration of supplements. 
Although we have been giving supplements for approximately three months, despite repeated requests as to exactly what we are giving our players and the literature related to this, have at no time been given that until last Sunday [15 January 2012]. Last week the players were given subcutaneous injections, not by myself, and I had no idea that this was happening and also what drug was involved.

It appears to me that in Sydney with Rugby League the clubs do not answer to the governing body (e.g. A.F.L.). It seems that their whole culture is based on trying to beat the system as are close to the edge as one can. It is my belief in A.F.L. that we should be winning flags by keeping a drug free culture.

It is all very well to say this is not banned and that is not banned but for example, the injection that we have given our players subcutaneously, was a drug called AOD/9604, is an Oligomeric Peptide. This drug is derived from the growth hormone.

This molecule has been constructed so it has removed what we call IGF1, which is part of the growth hormone that causes muscle and organ growth and bone length and photosynthesis.

It is at the moment used for fat metabolism but also bone strength in children and may have some side effects that may be beneficial in bone growth. This to me just seem ludicrous at this stage where the only trials I have got are on how to lost weight and fat around the abdomen.

If we are resorting to deliver this altered growth hormone molecule, I think we are playing at the edge and this will read extremely badly in the press for our club and for the benefits and also for side effects that are not known in the long term, I have trouble with all these drugs.

I am still not sure whether AOD/9604 is approved by the drug authorities in Australia at this stage. Just because it is not classified as illegal, doesn’t mean that it can be used freely in the community, it cannot. The other interesting thing about AOD/9604, is that its market in America is in body builders. This also should raise a red flag if we are worried about perception.

When it comes to Actovegin, this has been used around the world for many years. There is some flimsy evidence that it may help in speeding up the healing of tendons when they are damaged, though after speaking to radiologists, the recent opinion is that platelets and one’s own blood, probably does a better job.

We are claiming that we should use it as a recovery agent. To me it seems ludicrous that a few mls of calf’s blood spun down, is going to give you a concentration of growth factors and other factors that would speed up recovery.

I am very frustrated by this and now feel I am letting the club down by not automatically approving of these things. I need to collect my thoughts as these drugs have been given without my knowledge.

I am sure Steve Danks believes that what we are doing is totally ethical and legal, however, one wonders whether if you take a long stance and look at this from a distance, whether you would want your children being injected with a derivative hormone that is not free to the community and whether calf’s blood, that has been used for many years and is still doubted by most doctors, is worth pursuing.

Kind Regards
Dr. Bruce Reid
M.B.B.S.

Senior Medical Officer