Certified Legendary Thread 34 Essendon* Players suspended for doping violations - No opposition fans. Check OP for thread rules

[zeeCFC]

I hope they're wrong but the buffoons on 360 reckon no charges will ever come from ASADA/WADA.

He's very wrong.

Vlad confirmed Essendon players were given AOD and it's almost certain now a fair few of them were given Thymosin B4 and other unknown substances.

The real party is yet to start.

 

[SBYM]

Thankfully I hold Burnside in such esteem even this aberration of conscience can't touch him.

Have been experiencing this conflict myself.

Have had a man crush on Burnside since I saw him talk re asylum seekers...I nearly drove off the road when I heard him tell SEN Hird was heroic.

 

[Coona Blues]

Wait until ASADA and WADA finish with them.

There is no way in hell that ASADA and WADA will sit back and allow systemic doping of an entire sporting team to be swept under the carpet. Literally no way.

From my reading of the AFL charge sheet (and bear in mind this contains only a fraction of the evidence gathered so far) ASADAs case is already proven. They're simply waiting for the AFL and NRL finals to conclude before forwarding names to the ADRV panel for infractions.

The reason they're waiting? Its likely a negotiated settlement in response to AFL assistance in the investigation just like the 'timely' release of the Interim report a few weeks before the finals and right in time for a commission meeting. They also want to use their new powers to have a little chat to old Danky boy, and don't want to scare Cronulla into silence by smashing the Dons too early.

Conclude the investigation, chase up every loose end, and then 'bang'.

I'm fully expecting 38 infraction notices to be handed out, each one triggering penalties of 6 months to 2 years out of the game. The club will then face a class action from the AFLPA seeking compensation to the value of around ten million dollars. Add in loss of revenue, sponsorship, members and players leaving in droves and the inability to field a side for up to two years.

I'd go so far as to stake my legal reputation infraction notices will be handed out.

Once those infractions are handed out, the *cheats wont exist as a club anymore.

This 100%
All parties involved in this so far have played their parts well. The Essendon machine continuing to plead the innocent victim until enough pressure from the weight of evidence was brought to bear by the AFL, albeit behind closed doors. The AFL progressively releasing information sufficient to knock down any propoganda thrown out by Essendon (with the help of Foxtel).
Little had a mandate to manage the situation to obtain the best possible outcome for his club. They were clearly threatened with deregistration of both club and players should they not have agreed to terms. They still managed to water down all public statements to reflect governance rather than cheating issues.
However this is a smokescreen. The AFL have obviously committed to bring as much pressure to bear on ASADA and WADA to avoid infraction notices to the players. Unfortunately this will be to no avail.
These issues are global, only a fool would believe they can be managed in house and swept under the carpet.
Sure no player has tested positive, either did Lance Armstrong. The weight of evidence, the written acceptance of the program by players, the misguided admission by Watson based on their unsubstantiated assertion that AOD 9604 is not performance enhancing and therefore not banned.
Essendon and indeed the AFL live in the hope they will escape the wrath of the world watchdog. This cannot happen without totally undermining the integrity of all sport world wide.
I feel sorry for the young players at Essendon who succumbed to pressure to involve themselves in the process. Those starting out on their careers will be unlikely to survive a year or more out of the game. There will be no coming back for most. To any disgruntled player wishing to leave on the back of this debacle, good luck. GWS and others may wish to involve themselves, but due diligence will not give them an undertaking from ASADA or WADA that the players will be cleared.
The sanctions against the club and it's officials have been portrayed as astronomical. They are a piss in the ocean. When factoring in inflation, the value of the dollar, their penalty is clearly less than ours for salary cap issues.
In varying degrees, the players are the biggest victims in this. They have a duty of care, and undoubtedly have more than enough warning re obligations and consequences. In a strong club "culture", if the leaders commit, all but the strongest free thinker will be compelled to follow.
The only question that remains in the wash up is "will Essendon survive as a club when this is done and dusted?"

 

[zeeCFC]

Bombers dropped to 9th on ladder - Works out better than last as they have a later 3rd round pick now.

Bombers can trade in to first and second rounds - Players under infraction clouds and many wary of trading.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Dont forget the 'Lube all plus' (vet medicine) the Mexican crapola and the blacked out/ redacted drug on the list of substances taken by the Bombers.

ASADA cant not infract them for gods sake. There is literally no wriggle room for ASADA here (or the players thanks to 'strict liability').

And if having every player infracted and stood down for 2 years wasnt bad enough, god help them if they get done for team based doping.

In no way am I under-stating this when I say this is almost certainly the end/death of the EFC. I cant see a way out for them here (barring ridiculous support and assistance from the AFL).

The supporters havent dawned on just how massive this is yet. Theyre not just in denial; its surreal.

I just go back to a simple example...
If a swimmer can get banned for taking a few caffeine tablets,
then asada/ wada must act on essendon... they have no choice

 

[zeeCFC]

Bomber fanboys: "WAIT UNTIL THE INVESTIGATION IS FINISHED UNTIL JUDGING US"

"ALREADY 1300 PAGES OF EVIDENCE AND STILL NO INFRACTION NOTICES, WE'RE FREE!!!"

...no, you're just royally !@#$%^

 

[Silvagnis]

That picture in that article is scary! Almost screamed in horror. Yikes!

Loved Little's work in Shadow Of The Vampire.

Wait until ASADA and WADA finish with them.

The AFL punishment was light. They should have barred them from the first two rounds of the 2014 draft. Hope they can re-visit this if ASADA's full report reveals more damning evidence.

 

[brazilblue]

Dont forget the 'Lube all plus' (vet medicine) the Mexican crapola and the blacked out/ redacted drug on the list of substances taken by the Bombers.

ASADA cant not infract them for gods sake. There is literally no wriggle room for ASADA here (or the players thanks to 'strict liability').

And if having every player infracted and stood down for 2 years wasnt bad enough, god help them if they get done for team based doping.

In no way am I under-stating this when I say this is almost certainly the end/death of the EFC. I cant see a way out for them here (barring ridiculous support and assistance from the AFL).

The supporters havent dawned on just how massive this is yet. Theyre not just in denial; its surreal.

I find it so interesting that so many "footy" people think its over.

How?

I mean, seriously?

Even an amoeba could work out that's not the case. I've been reading your posts on the main board Malifice and would like to give you some credit but its so bleeding obvious that the world just seems to be full of idiots.

I am tired on being banned (just served a one weeker) responding to moronic Essenscum supporters.

All I can say is that I am looking forward with glee when the notices are handed down.

At the start of all this I was really worried for the EFC ... I hate them with a passion and thought I would miss that hatred should they be wiped out.

But after listening to their fan's shit over the last 7 months, them defending that w@nker Hird like he was the Teflon don ... I want them GAWN.

You, my friend, have seen (like me)from a very early stage that they, as a club, are in huge strife.

Once the axe falls you are most surely welcome around my place for a drink cooled with ice cubes made from delusional Essendone supporters frozen tears!

I look forward to pissing on the charged remains that is the EFC.

 

[zeeCFC]

Loved Little's work in Shadow Of The Vampire.

The AFL punishment was light. They should have barred them from the first two rounds of the 2014 draft. Hope they can re-visit this if ASADA's full report reveals more damning evidence.

I doubt they will...ASADA in my opinion can now only have 2014 points stripped from Essendon and issue infraction notices.

It shouldn't be forgotten that if they are found to have taken banned substances that Jobe's brownlow should be the first to go. What a farcical situation when he hands over the medal this year.

 

[Malifice]

The AFL punishment was light. They should have barred them from the first two rounds of the 2014 draft. Hope they can re-visit this if ASADA's full report reveals more damning evidence.

Ironically I bet you a dollar that they are allowed back into the 2014 draft with a ton of special rules to allow them to field a side for 2015.

 

[inyourcool]

@ Maliface
I like your work!
As certain as death and taxes, IN's will be on their way. The revelations and evidence in public forum alone is enough to suggest only this outcome. Bring it on!

 

[Silvagnis]

Ironically I bet you a dollar that they are allowed back into the 2014 draft with a ton of special rules to allow them to field a side for 2015.

If infractions are handed out, then they'll be picking mature players from the lower leagues. Nothing to be excited about.

 

[Windhover]

Based on what?

The law couldnt be clearer!

On the facts there is apparently no doubt that Essendon players took banned substances including AOD (38 players) TB 4 (34 players) among others. The legal question is whether the taking of such substances can be linked to any individual player. So, for example, Jobe says I think I was given AOD but how do I know what it was.

Since there is strict liability associated with the taking of banned substances there is an understandably heavy onus of proof on those who allege the banned substance was taken to prove that the individual player took it. Although the burden of proof is only "on the balance of probabilities" before ASADA made a finding that Jobe was one of the 38 players who took it they probably want positive evidence that demonstrates that what he thought he had been given was actually what he had been given.

Look at it the other way round. If a player is found on a blood test to have a banned substance in their blood stream then even if they didn't know the source of the banned substance, maybe their water was spiked etc, under the strict liability test they are done for it. Since ASADA do not have positive blood tests they would be reluctant to charge players just because "the vibe" suggested they must have ingested banned substances.

That is why we must all wait for the evidence of Danks. Since he as already been interviewed in confidence by the ACC - and the ACC report has been made available to ASADA - it follows ASADA have a pretty good idea what his admissable evidence will be - implicating the players that he placed on various programs. So I agree that it is likely many of the players will eventually be infracted, we may have to wait a while.

 

[HBF]

This is the scandal that just keeps on giving.
I actually shook my head this morning hearing that Dank had discussed giving the Essendon players a polymer that has been tested on racehorses.

Are Essendon* even going exist when ASADA/WADA get through with them!?

 

[zeeCFC]

I always thought Jobe had a horse like rump. /Hille

and HBF , your avatar, name, nao!

 

[HBF]

On the facts there is apparently no doubt that Essendon players took banned substances including AOD (38 players) TB 4 (34 players) among others. The legal question is whether the taking of such substances can be linked to any individual player. So, for example, Jobe says I think I was given AOD but how do I know what it was.

Since there is strict liability associated with the taking of banned substances there is an understandably heavy onus of proof on those who allege the banned substance was taken to prove that the individual player took it. Although the burden of proof is only "on the balance of probabilities" before ASADA made a finding that Jobe was one of the 38 players who took it they probably want positive evidence that demonstrates that what he thought he had been given was actually what he had been given.

Look at it the other way round. If a player is found on a blood test to have a banned substance in their blood stream then even if they didn't know the source of the banned substance, maybe their water was spiked etc, under the strict liability test they are done for it. Since ASADA do not have positive blood tests they would be reluctant to charge players just because "the vibe" suggested they must have ingested banned substances.

That is why we must all wait for the evidence of Danks. Since he as already been interviewed in confidence by the ACC - and the ACC report has been made available to ASADA - it follows ASADA have a pretty good idea what his admissable evidence will be - implicating the players that he placed on various programs. So I agree that it is likely many of the players will eventually be infracted, we may have to wait a while.

Great post Windhover.
But isn't this how WADA got Lance Armstrong?
They got him purely on his team mates and other people flipping on him and essentially dobbing him in.
Realise these are different circumstances, but the circumstantial evidence is really mounting up.

 

[Malifice]

On the facts there is apparently no doubt that Essendon players took banned substances including AOD (38 players) TB 4 (34 players) among others. The legal question is whether the taking of such substances can be linked to any individual player. So, for example, Jobe says I think I was given AOD but how do I know what it was.

There are signed consent forms with AOD and player names listed, and an invoice with the players named specifically listed (redacted in the report) next to AOD. The players have conceeded in interviews that they were subsequently injected with what they beleived to be AOD. AOD was ordered by the club, and greenlit by the doctor and Dank.

Thats enough to establish beyond the balance of probabilities that AOD was administered to those players.

Shit; thats enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was administered.

Since there is strict liability associated with the taking of banned substances there is an understandably heavy onus of proof on those who allege the banned substance was taken to prove that the individual player took it. Although the burden of proof is only "on the balance of probabilities" before ASADA made a finding that Jobe was one of the 38 players who took it they probably want positive evidence that demonstrates that what he thought he had been given was actually what he had been given.

The burden is more than the balance of probabilities but not beyond reasonable doubt. It must be shown to be 'very likely' that a player took a prohibited substance.

Read the AFL's report again. They have 38 names (redacted) listed with direct evidence AOD being administered (and Thymoisin).

Theyre gone.

That is why we must all wait for the evidence of Danks.

They wont close the investigation until after theyve spoken to him thats for sure.

But thats just common sense.

 

[HBF]

I always thought Jobe had a horse like rump. /Hille

and HBF , your avatar, name, nao!

Welcome back zeeCFC
Her name is Amalie Wichmann.

 

[zeeCFC]

Welcome back zeeCFC
Her name is Amalie Wichmann.

thank you and bless your soul

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

On the facts there is apparently no doubt that Essendon players took banned substances including AOD (38 players) TB 4 (34 players) among others. The legal question is whether the taking of such substances can be linked to any individual player. So, for example, Jobe says I think I was given AOD but how do I know what it was.

Since there is strict liability associated with the taking of banned substances there is an understandably heavy onus of proof on those who allege the banned substance was taken to prove that the individual player took it. Although the burden of proof is only "on the balance of probabilities" before ASADA made a finding that Jobe was one of the 38 players who took it they probably want positive evidence that demonstrates that what he thought he had been given was actually what he had been given.

Look at it the other way round. If a player is found on a blood test to have a banned substance in their blood stream then even if they didn't know the source of the banned substance, maybe their water was spiked etc, under the strict liability test they are done for it. Since ASADA do not have positive blood tests they would be reluctant to charge players just because "the vibe" suggested they must have ingested banned substances.

That is why we must all wait for the evidence of Danks. Since he as already been interviewed in confidence by the ACC - and the ACC report has been made available to ASADA - it follows ASADA have a pretty good idea what his admissable evidence will be - implicating the players that he placed on various programs. So I agree that it is likely many of the players will eventually be infracted, we may have to wait a while.

Is it normal that I read your entire post with the voice of Jack McCoy in my head?

 

[Donstuie]

The AFL punishment was light. They should have barred them from the first two rounds of the 2014 draft. Hope they can re-visit this if ASADA's full report reveals more damning evidence.

Once ASADA is through with them they may just need all the draft picks they can get their hands on.

 

[Silvagnis]

It's actually a small shame they've lost their first pick in this draft. Someone called Salem would have been the perfect fit for the Bombers.

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

Are there any hints when ASADA will be ready to apply the lube? My understanding is WADA only step in if they think ASADA's punishments are too pissweak. So hopefully ASADA will do it right from the beginning to save time

 

[HBF]

Are there any hints when ASADA will be ready to apply the lube? My understanding is WADA only step in if they think ASADA's punishments are too pissweak. So hopefully ASADA will do it right from the beginning to save time

The ASADA investigation won't be completed until Dank speaks to them, which who knows how long that will take.
However, with their new legaslative powers in play now I doubt it will be too much longer until they compell him to speak to them.

I'm expecting infraction notices to be handed out over the Summer.

 

[etsal1]

Poster on TC said Roy Masters was on radio yesterday and said he is certain infraction notices will be handed down (he has been told by people in canberra). NRL infraction notices in November and AFL in December. It will be a very merry Christmas.