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How stupid do they think we are?
News Lions Board Spill - update: Board Dispute Resolved
- Thread starter rumply
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Whatever software Pinskier has to gather emails from America's biggest social networks' databases and the databases of forums, I want it.
I'm glad the fact that he has this supposed ability doesn't concern the Club.
I'm glad the fact that he has this supposed ability doesn't concern the Club.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
He watched a youtube video on how to hack databases and merely downloaded the link in the description. Isn't this what everyone does?
AGM fodder, surely?
He prefers Vimeo.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
^ I'm taking a stab in the dark here but is that picture from a 'lifetime' movie?
It looks like a lifetime tv movie quality film.
It looks like a lifetime tv movie quality film.
That's Hugh Jackman in Swordfish, my friend.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
I do agree though. The more screens the more elite your hacking power is. Unless of course the camera pans around behind you whilst you're furiously typing only to see that you're still on the desktop.
Dr P strikes me as more of a pen and paper petition man though.
I have just sent this to the AFL at privacy@afl.com.au
Hello,
I am a current Victorian based Brisbane Lions member. During the recent Board split at the Lions, and subsequent events, I received several emails from a fellow Lions member Dr Pinksier as founder of a group called 'Restore The Lions Pride".
The emails were totally unsolicited by me. I have learned since, that many other members had also received the emails. Furthermore, I also learned that Dr Pinksier was actually able to determine whether members were from Queensland or Victoria, and targeted members with different emails, each politically motivated.
When directly asked where Dr Pinksier got member email addresses, Dr Pinksier said that he and his IT gurus got the addressed through networking known members, through Facebook, and through Twiter, and other social media. I allege that this is a lie.
I believe that Dr Pinksier ran a sabotage campaign on behalf of, and for certain board members Furthermore, I suspect and allege that he received member email addresses and member status information either from a board member/s, or from people representing board members, or in any case that that information was sourced directly from either the club or the AFL illegally.
The club on Friday 8 November, issued a statement explaining of their thorough investigation of the matter, and that that investigation has not uncovered any evidence that the club or anyone at the club was the source for Dr Pinksier.
I find this statement well short of satisfactory. I find it completely and utterly unacceptable that my and fellow members membership status and contact information fell into the hands of a private individual and most particularly a fellow Lions member. An individual who acted as a political lobbyist in the lead up to an EGM. An individual who I allege lead a campaign to sabotage the process, and who tried to gain proxy nominations by releasing a proxy form (correct in detail) even before the club had officially released one.
This is scandalous. There is impropriety here, and I call on you to get to the bottom of it at all costs.
I call for an independent investigation of both club and AFL to be conducted, and that the findings be released to all Lions members.
The questions I would particularly like answered are:
1. Where did Dr Pinksier get Lions Member information from
2. How did Dr Pinksier get Lions Member information
3. Who were those at all levels responsible for giving Lions Member information to Dr Pinksier
4. Who solicited Dr Pinksier to do what he did and why
5. How did Dr Pinksier receive proxy forms before the club released them
I look forward to your response, and an outline of the course of action that will be taken to answer the above allegations and questions. I can only speak for myself, but I can say with certainty, this is a matter that has many Lions members upset, and questioning the integrity of our club and of the AFL.
Yours respectfully,
Hello,
I am a current Victorian based Brisbane Lions member. During the recent Board split at the Lions, and subsequent events, I received several emails from a fellow Lions member Dr Pinksier as founder of a group called 'Restore The Lions Pride".
The emails were totally unsolicited by me. I have learned since, that many other members had also received the emails. Furthermore, I also learned that Dr Pinksier was actually able to determine whether members were from Queensland or Victoria, and targeted members with different emails, each politically motivated.
When directly asked where Dr Pinksier got member email addresses, Dr Pinksier said that he and his IT gurus got the addressed through networking known members, through Facebook, and through Twiter, and other social media. I allege that this is a lie.
I believe that Dr Pinksier ran a sabotage campaign on behalf of, and for certain board members Furthermore, I suspect and allege that he received member email addresses and member status information either from a board member/s, or from people representing board members, or in any case that that information was sourced directly from either the club or the AFL illegally.
The club on Friday 8 November, issued a statement explaining of their thorough investigation of the matter, and that that investigation has not uncovered any evidence that the club or anyone at the club was the source for Dr Pinksier.
I find this statement well short of satisfactory. I find it completely and utterly unacceptable that my and fellow members membership status and contact information fell into the hands of a private individual and most particularly a fellow Lions member. An individual who acted as a political lobbyist in the lead up to an EGM. An individual who I allege lead a campaign to sabotage the process, and who tried to gain proxy nominations by releasing a proxy form (correct in detail) even before the club had officially released one.
This is scandalous. There is impropriety here, and I call on you to get to the bottom of it at all costs.
I call for an independent investigation of both club and AFL to be conducted, and that the findings be released to all Lions members.
The questions I would particularly like answered are:
1. Where did Dr Pinksier get Lions Member information from
2. How did Dr Pinksier get Lions Member information
3. Who were those at all levels responsible for giving Lions Member information to Dr Pinksier
4. Who solicited Dr Pinksier to do what he did and why
5. How did Dr Pinksier receive proxy forms before the club released them
I look forward to your response, and an outline of the course of action that will be taken to answer the above allegations and questions. I can only speak for myself, but I can say with certainty, this is a matter that has many Lions members upset, and questioning the integrity of our club and of the AFL.
Yours respectfully,
Henry Pinskier
Debutant
1) You assert with some certainty that I am a "fellow Lions member" - by your own logic, surely this is incontrovertible proof that you have the Lions membership list. Please explain your part in the conspiracy as I don't believe you know the secret handshake.
2) We did send unsolicited emails, that's true. Some thought this was spam but, of course, we weren't selling anything, we were advancing ideas and participating in a football club election process, free speech protected to at least some extent by our courts and our values as a democracy.
3. A thorough investigation occurred within the Club and yet somehow this is all part of the conspiracy. At some point, some self-reflection would be warranted: You were wrong. I'll skip the demand for an apology and move on. Should Interpol or a Royal Commission probe this issue, they will come up with the same answer. They too would then not be believed by some here.
4. I understand that the Lions Roar - and some others with similar views - were a bit embarrassed about what happened with the EGM. Some said Leigh Matthews would walk away from the Club if his ticket - his whole ticket - didn't get up. Going back through this "thread" reveals many such shrill utterances. We disagreed and we stood firm for the principle that the members ought decide the Club's future, not one side of a boardroom brawl. While it's early days, it appears the compromise between them has ended the brawl and allowed a renewed focus on what really matters: winning Flags.
6. If you look up the Club constitution, you'll find the official Club proxy form. It is not a state secret and pretending otherwise adds an extra bit of bizarre spice to an already rather fruity nutcake as Christmas approaches.
7. In answer to your questions: 1) He didn't, 2) See answer to question 1, 3) See answer to question 1, 4) Every conspiracy has a smoking man, perhaps Clive Palmer is to blame or just maybe a Lions member cared enough to stand up, endure a few cheap insults on a bulletin board and prevail on behalf of the silent majority of members, 5) He looked up the Club constitution, you should try it.
Yours respectfully,
Dr Henry Pinskier
2) We did send unsolicited emails, that's true. Some thought this was spam but, of course, we weren't selling anything, we were advancing ideas and participating in a football club election process, free speech protected to at least some extent by our courts and our values as a democracy.
3. A thorough investigation occurred within the Club and yet somehow this is all part of the conspiracy. At some point, some self-reflection would be warranted: You were wrong. I'll skip the demand for an apology and move on. Should Interpol or a Royal Commission probe this issue, they will come up with the same answer. They too would then not be believed by some here.
4. I understand that the Lions Roar - and some others with similar views - were a bit embarrassed about what happened with the EGM. Some said Leigh Matthews would walk away from the Club if his ticket - his whole ticket - didn't get up. Going back through this "thread" reveals many such shrill utterances. We disagreed and we stood firm for the principle that the members ought decide the Club's future, not one side of a boardroom brawl. While it's early days, it appears the compromise between them has ended the brawl and allowed a renewed focus on what really matters: winning Flags.
6. If you look up the Club constitution, you'll find the official Club proxy form. It is not a state secret and pretending otherwise adds an extra bit of bizarre spice to an already rather fruity nutcake as Christmas approaches.
7. In answer to your questions: 1) He didn't, 2) See answer to question 1, 3) See answer to question 1, 4) Every conspiracy has a smoking man, perhaps Clive Palmer is to blame or just maybe a Lions member cared enough to stand up, endure a few cheap insults on a bulletin board and prevail on behalf of the silent majority of members, 5) He looked up the Club constitution, you should try it.
Yours respectfully,
Dr Henry Pinskier
I suspect that current laws excuse the Doctor's group from having to tell the club ANYTHING. They can't prove ownership of the information and therefore have no rights to ask an individual where they obtained any information they have. The information may not necessarily have come directly from the club, as this info is shared with several others, such as the AFL. We know that the information was shared, if not illegally, then immorally. There has most certainly been a breach of agreement and privacy.
Right now, my deepest concern is no longer how he got it, but the club's handwashing of the issue.
If Mr. Sharpless believes or believes that members believe the explanation above then we have bigger issues than getting spam. (Not trying to downplay the seriousness of such a privacy breach) I am now more concerned with either the propriety and ethics or the comprehension of our new chairman.
The chairman's statement is rather reminiscent of Angus. "Tell 'em nothing, take 'em nowhere".
The only further explanation that absolves the doctor from obtaining the information illegally from either a staffer or board member is that our information given to the club, is in fact made publically available through different channels. I'm sure the new chairman didn't want to mention this in his statement.
The chairman must be pushed for further explanation. His statement yesterday is simply inadequate.
Right now, my deepest concern is no longer how he got it, but the club's handwashing of the issue.
If I were Dr. Pinskier, I would have told the club to piss off. If I were the club (considering some of its current staff) I wouldn't want to dwell on the matter, nor tell its members we couldn't find anything. If anyone buys this statement then both the club and the doctor are off the hook and the matter goes away. Win, win for the 2 parties.
If Mr. Sharpless believes or believes that members believe the explanation above then we have bigger issues than getting spam. (Not trying to downplay the seriousness of such a privacy breach) I am now more concerned with either the propriety and ethics or the comprehension of our new chairman.
The chairman's statement is rather reminiscent of Angus. "Tell 'em nothing, take 'em nowhere".
The only further explanation that absolves the doctor from obtaining the information illegally from either a staffer or board member is that our information given to the club, is in fact made publically available through different channels. I'm sure the new chairman didn't want to mention this in his statement.
The chairman must be pushed for further explanation. His statement yesterday is simply inadequate.
Ironmonger
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i disagree he told us nothing. He explained what the investigation included well.
I would have liked a digital/IT expert to have accompanied Sharpless to the meeting with the dodgy Dr. But lets not compare Sharpless with Angus only minutes into his tenure
A bit convenient isn't it, that you apparently shared our dissatisfaction with the previous board and yet are now willing to trust the management of the CEO and new chairman. How is it that you know any investigation was thorough?
Do you believe it was thorough because it reports no negative findings?
Email addresses cannot be obtained from social media sites and your assertion that "word of mouth" was the source is laughably ridiculous. Furthermore, your and the chairman's suggestion that the question of source has been "satisfactorily explained" is contemptuous. A more detailed explanation has been demanded and ignored.
Doctor, make no mistake, you have been seen for what you are. Most people also realise your connection with Cameron Milner. We are not finished with this board of directors, not by a long shot.
Really? "We asked the staff, checked the software and saw the doctor".
The statement really just says "We looked into it and found nothing".
The assertion that the doctor satisfied their inquiry really is inadequate. How were they satisfied? The information is publically available from where?
Back2Back2Back
In Fagan we trust.
So how did you get my email address? Also, how did you know what my first name was to start the emails with when the email address you were sending to did not contain anything to do with my name?
I'm a fellow Lions member, but I don't have this amazing list. That would be a breach of the Lions privacy policy if they were to just give it out.
Mooch
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Neighbors?
Viceregal
Premium Platinum
Thank you very much for that - I seriously literally laughed out loud when I read this point ...
So there are two points at issue here in the phrase 'fellow Lions member' ... the first is whether the other guy is a Lions member (the fellow implying both of you) which as he is writing it we can assume to be the case and in your 'rebuttal' you do not mention that as a possibility that he is not so you objection would seem to be on the basis of him assuming that you also are a Lions member ...
Ok ...
So where could he have made an assumption like that from ...
1) You yourself typed repeatedly on this board that you were a fully paid up Lions member of x years ... so if we take this one out of circulation (and we have to since you have stated that him assuming you are is incontrovertible (ie unchallengeable and single source of truth) proof he has a membership list so any other 'proof' must be dismissed) then that would constitute proof that you were lying when you typed that information on here and he was an idiot for taking what appeared to be a simple straightforward statement as reality truth
2) You initially were running for the Board ... to do requires that you are a fully paid up member for the last two years - so while it would *seem* logical to assume you were a member in that light patently this also cannot be true so your fall-back position of 'plenty of better people have put their hand up so I don't have to stand myself' was actually your original position since you could not have been a member as that would have constituted alternate proof and thus inadmissible and so again you must have been lying both on this Board and in your website as you never had any intention of running for a Board position.
3) Multiple references to yourself as a 'long term passionate lions member ... see point 1
4) When the discussion was taking place about the EGM forms and people were claiming they had come pre-filled with their membership numbers your rebuttal at the time was that they were deluded idiots and if they looked more closely they would see that it was not *their* number on the form but your own. Now a foolish literalist *could* assume from such statements involving you having a current membership number worthy of being used on a current EGM form that you were in fact a current lions member but again we know that such could not be the case and again we seem have a flaw in the truthfulness process and naivety on his part to believe you.
Of course it could be that what you said/typed/wrote was in those particular aspects 'true' and you just created such a beautiful straw man here which had the added benefit of one of the best own goals I have seen in a while.
Oh and btw ... no I am not a member of the Lion's Roar and I would answer that other question as well but I can't remember what it was off the top of my head...
Oh and as for 'yours respectfully' ... considering the content of your post that is either a standard signature used without thought or meaning or a piece of blatant hypocrisy or you are actually deluded enough to think that what you typed was actually respectful (btw if it is the last we have some posters on this board with psychological credentials who can put you in touch with someone who can help you with this).
Yours kind-of-unable-to-believe-you-actually-typed-that
Viceregal
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Edward Snowdon warned us about this. Clearly Dr Pinskier's IT people are of the NSA variety.
And to be honest, I don't care so much how the doctor got the email addresses. The greater issue for me is the ethical concern that he thought it OK to use them in this way while still claiming some sort moral high ground in the dispute.
It makes him the lowest form of organizational life - the "whatever it takes" brigade. (Didn't it work out well for the last footy club that lived by that credo!)
Pinskier can dress it all up in any terms he wants, but at the end of the day what is he? A sordid little man doing sordid little things and trying to manipulate an outcome by whatever sordid means he can come up with.
And he can justify what he has done in terms of organizational politics, media campaigns etc etc all he likes but any thinking member is going to want the likes of Pinskier as far away from their footy club as possible.
He responds to criticism by dealing in minutiae rather than ever confront the whole moral issue of what he did. It is why he should be kept as far as possible from our club. Weasels like this are dangerous to let anywhere near it.
Pinskier, this is your legacy. The moment you open your mouth near our club again, voices will rise up to remind us all what a grubby little campaign you ran. Nothing you say will ever be valued again.
Now go away.
And to be honest, I don't care so much how the doctor got the email addresses. The greater issue for me is the ethical concern that he thought it OK to use them in this way while still claiming some sort moral high ground in the dispute.
It makes him the lowest form of organizational life - the "whatever it takes" brigade. (Didn't it work out well for the last footy club that lived by that credo!)
Pinskier can dress it all up in any terms he wants, but at the end of the day what is he? A sordid little man doing sordid little things and trying to manipulate an outcome by whatever sordid means he can come up with.
And he can justify what he has done in terms of organizational politics, media campaigns etc etc all he likes but any thinking member is going to want the likes of Pinskier as far away from their footy club as possible.
He responds to criticism by dealing in minutiae rather than ever confront the whole moral issue of what he did. It is why he should be kept as far as possible from our club. Weasels like this are dangerous to let anywhere near it.
Pinskier, this is your legacy. The moment you open your mouth near our club again, voices will rise up to remind us all what a grubby little campaign you ran. Nothing you say will ever be valued again.
Now go away.
Back2Back2Back
In Fagan we trust.
Appears so. Though I think the Lions said they'd look after it to make it look like they weren't associated with Pinskier. That said, the AFL should have proactively picked this up too.
In other news, if this is how trivial our privacy is to the Lions and the AFL, I think from now on I will get them to send all letters to a PO Box to hide my residential address, and I'll change the name my membership is registered under to Chuck Finley.
In other news, if this is how trivial our privacy is to the Lions and the AFL, I think from now on I will get them to send all letters to a PO Box to hide my residential address, and I'll change the name my membership is registered under to Chuck Finley.
