ASADA relied on 'vague' accounts - The Australian 27/12/13

[yaco55]

Is AOD detectable?

ASADA doesn't only prosecute on positive tests.

 

[theflea]

Flea

I agree with what you have written - Absolutely - But you need to look behind every poster - MXETT likes to debate every point that is possibly contentious - But his core belief is that AOD was a crap suppement - That's means something.

Sure no problem with that but I think if he didn't mix his assertions between a cream based trial and a few added injections and then pass off this as safe when the doc didn't say this, then you shouldn't then say he is only saying the cream testing was what he was talking about.

 

[yaco55]

Just because there aren't prosecutions doent mean its any more approved or any less banned. Prosection in this case was deemed unlikely to be successful, according to Whately who said he was quoting ASADA officials.

Le Grand is trying to rehash a point Gerard Whately championed earlier in the piece, and Wittert wasnt having a bar of it.


Gary Wittert ‏@ProfDocHealth 26 Dec
@dcp3107 @ringsau Chip does or should know better. # factcheck

Gary Wittert ‏@ProfDocHealth 26 Dec
@Melbchief AOD9604 illegal to use in sport. Then & now. Muddying the waters on this serves no purpose & some might argue irresponsible

Gary Wittert ‏@ProfDocHealth 26 Dec
@dcp3107 @ringsau it is not approved for use by any regulatory authority or under any circumstance.

Having read the twitter exchange - IMO its a totally reasonable question to ask - The Doctor's view is from a medical perspective, and Chip's view is from a Journalists perspective.

 

[jerry springer]

The fact is that the AFL doesn't feel this is the case, or they would have acted on Finnis proposal. And the AFL won't act because it will affect all clubs.

You need to be cautious with this kind of proposal and it's one that needs to be thoroughly investigated. And players have sued clubs after retirement, under health and safety conditions.

I agree with most of what you said, but you could see why the AFLPA would push for this? That's Finnis's main job to look after the players.

 

[QuietB]

ASADA doesn't only prosecute on positive tests.

As we will see

 

[theflea]

Research lets you down.

Go to the Essendon board and see how many times that I chastised posters for using derogatory terms or pictures describing Wilson/Smith etc. Think the board got sick of me for a while.

Cultists and foamers are merely 'cries of help' from people who either, won't debate the issue, or refuse to follow a logical and coherent argument. I think its safe to call Wittert and Le Grand respected professionals in their field - There is nothing to suggest otherwise.

Chip's question to Wittert was timely and logical - I still want to know - Has there been a successful prosecution for using AOD ?

I don't know if there has been but it is irrelevant. Precedence is not needed.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

And yet there were still dozens of delusional Essendon supporters in here bleating that there was no way Essendon wouldn't play finals. How do you explain that?

"Delusional"

"Bleating"

You really have jumped the shark

 

[vjknight]

People calling Paul Little a liar need to pull their heads in.

Essendon has gone above and beyond in regards to player welfare after the scandal broke, we have sort expert medical advice and that has informed us that nothing we took was dangerous. The whole "we have no idea, what was taken" idea is garbage, just because we don't leak it to Caro doesn't mean we don't know what was taken. Just because we have acted with integrity throughout this whole process does not mean we have taken anything illegal or harmful.

after ? and what about before................ ?






'we have no idea.........' are you calling bomber thompson a liar ?

 

[Argy]

You can go the Essendon Board and search under ASADA thread. It's from late July.

Can't be bothered chasing your illusory rainbows. Links please.

 

[romeoh]

That's from your perspective. Club was concerned about his performance. Player's weren't impressed with his performance. You could say that Finnis was made to feel unwelcome at the club. And I believe that not all scheduled meetings with players occurred.

Hullo- did I hear you mention perspective?
You are firstly, presuming you can speak for others, and secondly providing unsubstantiated claims in anycase. And thirdly, if Finnis was 'unwelcome', I have seen no behaviour from him to justify such a stance being taken.
Evidence please.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

That list is from September 2012. She was (only) banned in 2013, backdated to the offence in July 2012.

Go to this page, then get "Sanctioned Athletes":

http://www.iaaf.org/about-iaaf/documents/anti-doping

WILLIAMS, Tameka (DOB 31.8.89)

Use or attempted use of a prohibited substance (IAAF Rule 32.2b). Possession of a Prohibited Substance (IAAF Rule 32.2f)

3 years ineligibility 21.7.12-20.7.15

Clearly the only way Watson is going to avoid at least a 3 year ban then, is if a deal has been made. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. Already the AFL are not following the St. Kitts and Nevis Olympic committee's precedent in banning him from participating in the sport, prior to any anti doping organisation's official banning. He's even still doing publicity pieces for them.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Obviously Hird was sold on the idea that the drugs were performance enhancing otherwise the program would never have gone ahead.
There was definitely intent from Essendon to gain an advantage through the use of drugs, regardless of whether they were or not.

Maybe he was just sold on the idea of using certain substances that would aid recovery while still being within the rules? You know, like the AIS advocates: http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/sssm/fatigue_and_recovery/faqs

"Recovery allows the restoration of physiological and psychological processes, so that the athlete can compete or train again at a similar level. Performance recovery has largely developed from the sports science and sports medicine discipline of physiology, however many aspects of recovery are also closely related to other disciplines including nutrition, psychology, physical therapies, medicine, and strength and conditioning. The AIS Performance Recovery discipline focuses on providing leading Australian athletes and coaches with education and services to maximise recovery of performance."

 

[Argy]

Maybe he was just sold on the idea of using certain substances that would aid recovery while still being within the rules? You know, like the AIS advocates: http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/sssm/fatigue_and_recovery/faqs

Sorry, I must have missed a critical part. Where do they mention drugs or doping?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

So after months and months of interviews,documents seized all they come up with is vague evidence? Lol they might as well give up Asada.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Sorry, I must have missed a critical part. Where do they mention drugs or doping?

"Recovery allows the restoration of physiological and psychological processes, so that the athlete can compete or train again at a similar level. Performance recovery has largely developed from the sports science and sports medicine discipline of physiology, however many aspects of recovery are also closely related to other disciplines including nutrition, psychology, physical therapies, medicine, and strength and conditioning. The AIS Performance Recovery discipline focuses on providing leading Australian athletes and coaches with education and services to maximise recovery of performance."

drug
drʌg/
noun
noun: drug; plural noun: drugs

1. 1. ​
   a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

I'm guessing if he was only sold on substances that aided recovery while being within the rules, he wasn't considering substances that would be considered doping though. Here's some interesting reading. http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/sssm/fatigue_and_recovery/research

 

[jenny61_99]

"Delusional"

"Bleating"

You really have jumped the shark

They were Essendon supporters that refused to believe they wouldn't play finals - therefore delusional is an apt description wouldn't you say? I know many of these supporters were active on the Essendon board. So they were all apparently discussing how they wouldn't play finals on your board and came here and said the exact opposite.

Bleating is a reasonable descriptive word in this case because they were following each other and whatever spin the Club had spun.

No shark jumping here.

 

[DudleyB]

Maybe he was just sold on the idea of using certain substances that would aid recovery while still being within the rules? You know, like the AIS advocates: http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/sssm/fatigue_and_recovery/faqs

So Hird was only interested in doing everything by the book - like the other 17 clubs but decides to hire the weapon, dank and charters?

right.

and even though Hird was only interested in 'by the book' recovery techniques - efc - and no other of the 17 clubs are being investigated by asada.

how does that work?

oh sorry - i forgot - its an AFL conspiracy because AD has tall poppy syndrome and wants to take Hird down because he can't handle someone better than him.

 

[Whatsonswhat]

So Hird was only interested in doing everything by the book - like the other 17 clubs but decides to hire the weapon, dank and charters?

right.

and even though Hird was only interested in 'by the book' recovery techniques - efc - and no other of the 17 clubs are being investigated by asada.

how does that work?

oh sorry - i forgot - its an AFL conspiracy because AD has tall poppy syndrome and wants to take Hird down because he can't handle someone better than him.

Conspiracy; backroom deal - same thing. Tall poppy syndrome? Don't think so. I'd say that Hird was just the type of high profile target ASADA demanded as part of their end of the bargain.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So after months and months of interviews,documents seized all they come up with is vague evidence? Lol they might as well give up Asada.

Well, what did you expect, and why do you think the investigation has taken this long?

This is as close to a "cold case" as ASADA have probably ever had to deal with. Essendon's lack of records certainly wouldn't make it easy.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So Hird was only interested in doing everything by the book - like the other 17 clubs but decides to hire the weapon, dank and charters?

right.

and even though Hird was only interested in 'by the book' recovery techniques - efc - and no other of the 17 clubs are being investigated by asada.

how does that work?

oh sorry - i forgot - its an AFL conspiracy because AD has tall poppy syndrome and wants to take Hird down because he can't handle someone better than him.

Lets not forget, Hird wanted to combat the other clubs he believed were on HGH....within the rules, of course. How do you do that?

What Hird was requesting Dank and Robinson to do was to out-cheat the cheaters, and to not get caught.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Well, what did you expect, and why do you think the investigation has taken this long?

This is as close to a "cold case" as ASADA have probably ever had to deal with. Essendon lack of records certainly wouldn't make it easy.

wont find jack now and they won't find jack later down the track if they do half the Essendon team will be retired by then

 

[Whatsonswhat]

Lets not forget, Hird wanted to combat the other clubs he believed were on HGH....within the rules, of course. How do you do that?

By using something legal? And that is interesting; what gave him that idea?

 

[Armchair Critic]

wont find jack now and they won't find jack later down the track if they do half the Essendon team will be retired by then

That may be the case but down the track and god forbid it does not happen who do you think a Player/Ex Player will blame if a pregnancy goes wrong or a baby is born with complications.

Essendon may very well get cleared by ASADA but they still may not be out of the gun for a very long time.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yep

don't wont find jack now and they won't find jack later down the track if they do half the Essendon team will be retired

You may be hopeful of this, but the Ziggy report renders the thought that ASADA will let sleeping dogs lie, void.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

That may be the case but down the track and god forbid it does not happen who do you think a Player/Ex Player will blame if a pregnancy goes wrong or a baby is born with complications.

Essendon may very well get cleared by ASADA but they still may not be out of the gun for a very long time.

they are bing monitored aren't they? I'm pretty sure the players had various doctors tell them there long term health will be fine.